Jeremy Lin

[elprez98]

he has the best court vision i've seen since Nash. he gets a little wreckless with the ball because the defense has been trapping the hell out of him but he usually gets the ball to the right spot.. amongst the best i've ever seen at that actually.. his assist numbers are not a coincidence. i personally don't need a million records to know a hit record when i hear it. hence why i knew he was the real deal after his FIRST game.. and by the way... i hadn't cared to watch or cared about the knicks in years.. because they have lacked so much heart.. if there was a heart rating his should be 100.

Better court vision than CP3 or Rondo? I don't think so sir.

[MrPolo7]

Re: Jeremy Lin

he has the best court vision i've seen since Nash. he gets a little wreckless with the ball because the defense has been trapping the hell out of him but he usually gets the ball to the right spot.. amongst the best i've ever seen at that actually.. his assist numbers are not a coincidence. i personally don't need a million records to know a hit record when i hear it. hence why i knew he was the real deal after his FIRST game.. and by the way... i hadn't cared to watch or cared about the knicks in years.. because they have lacked so much heart.. if there was a heart rating his should be 100.

Best court vision? How so? CP3 has better vision, Deron Williams has better vision, Lebron has better vision, hell I'd say Rubio has better court vision.

[bedwardsroy19]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Best court vision? How so? CP3 has better vision, Deron Williams has better vision, Lebron has better vision, hell I'd say Rubio has better court vision.

There are so many good point guards in the NBA right now I think I could understand an argument for at least ten with better court vision.

[slimm44]

Re: Jeremy Lin

@kensai - you're adding a qualifier that you didn't mention before. In the first post I quoted, you said he was plating as well as anybody has ever played, you just brought it up in the context of x amount of games now. I didn't take you out of context, but you are changing the context now to suit your argument.

[Colts18]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I don't care how great you think his passing is on an all time scale, even though you are jumping the gun considering the low sample size compared to historical figures, he is a young player with less than 1000 minutes of experience so giving him a 92 oaware is just undeserving at this point of his life. Too early for that.

[godsgift2dagame]

Re: Jeremy Lin

What in the hell? Jeremy Lin is playing at an all-star level and whatnot, but let's not kid ourselves with playing at "an all-time level". Magic Johnson's opinion is about as good as any analysts meaning it will change once he has a bad game.

Also, care to show your stats, ketai? I'd love to see how your raw stats match up with advanced metrics such as win shares (total, off. and def.), adjusted +/-, assists rate, scoring rate, etc. Right now, he's playing at a pretty high level, but his impact is notches below Kevin Love (and Nikola Pekovic) from the Wolves and right on par with Ricky Rubio. So, he's pretty good but let's not get carried away.

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

time will tell... first it was "it was just one game" then it was "it wasn't against a good defense".. fair enough.. i speculate with the best of them. My track record speaks for itself.

as i said he has incredible court vision.. better than anyone i've seen since Nash. CP3 is up there comparably.. but that's about it.. it's how he reads the floor, the tempo that he plays at, and the plays he makes for his teammates..

CP3 and Lin.. will both have their best years with a guy named chandler.. not a coincidence... basketball is very much a team game and very few point guards have ever had the type of immediate impact that he's had with the knicks.. you guys fail to remember that they were 2-11 in the games prior to him playing.. they were DONE. he single-handedly revived that team and has brought out the best ball that Novak, Fields (yes including last year), Jeffries, Chandler, etc have to offer. If that doesn't correlate to his awareness rating then i dont' know what does.

my point is you guys want to wait before putting the cart before the horse and that i can understand.. but i know what i know when it comes to ball and the guy creates opportunities on a level that very few have ever shown the propensity to do. Again, time will tell.. i had him at 71, now at 82.. and i wouldn't at all be surprised if he continues to go up..

My analysis is my analysis, you don't have to like it.

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

My offer still stands. If you want my response, go to the appropriate place to have the discussion, ie the pro basketball forum. If not, let us know how to edit his ratings and tendencies so he'll play realistically. I've not only posted mine but also posted sim results to back up my ideas. I've shown you mine, now show me yours. Try to refrain from the all caps words, please. It makes it more difficult to read your posts.

then don't troll my response in the first place.. judging by your other responses in this thread you obviously know what you are talking about and i respect your opinion.. but don't belittle mine. I appreciate you trying to objective about it.. but there's a fine line between objectivity, homerism, and haterism i guess. I'm definitely speculating more than you are, I can admit that much.

Better court vision than CP3 or Rondo? I don't think so sir.

You are entitled to your opinion. They definitely have better track records. But as far as potential is concerned and what he's done so far he's made his team as good as they've ever made theirs.

[bedwardsroy19]

Re: Jeremy Lin

time will tell... first it was "it was just one game" then it was "it wasn't against a good defense".. fair enough.. i speculate with the best of them. My track record speaks for itself.

as i said he has incredible court vision.. better than anyone i've seen since Nash. CP3 is up there comparably.. but that's about it.. it's how he reads the floor, the tempo that he plays at, and the plays he makes for his teammates..

CP3 and Lin.. will both have their best years with a guy named chandler.. not a coincidence... basketball is very much a team game and very few point guards have ever had the type of immediate impact that he's had with the knicks.. you guys fail to remember that they were 2-11 in the games prior to him playing.. they were DONE. he single-handedly revived that team and has brought out the best ball that Novak, Fields (yes including last year), Jeffries, Chandler, etc have to offer. If that doesn't correlate to his awareness rating then i dont' know what does.

my point is you guys want to wait before putting the cart before the horse and that i can understand.. but i know what i know when it comes to ball and the guy creates opportunities on a level that very few have ever shown the propensity to do. Again, time will tell.. i had him at 71, now at 82.. and i wouldn't at all be surprised if he continues to go up..

My analysis is my analysis, you don't have to like it.

We have understood your analysis in all of your recent posts. Not saying anyone agrees or disagrees. All people are asking for are your individual ratings.

82 doesn't mean all that much if you have his 3PT Shot at a 99 (obviously not the case, just an example)...

Many of us have provided individual ratings we have for him, I think everybody who is disputing you is asking for yours and not for your analysis on who has a better court awareness between Jeremy Lin and Chris Paul.

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

We have understood your analysis in all of your recent posts. Not saying anyone agrees or disagrees. All people are asking for are your individual ratings.

82 doesn't mean all that much if you have his 3PT Shot at a 99 (obviously not the case, just an example)...

Many of us have provided individual ratings we have for him, I think everybody who is disputing you is asking for yours and not for your analysis on who has a better court awareness between Jeremy Lin and Chris Paul.

fair enough, i'll be back with my ratings for him then..

[godsgift2dagame]

Re: Jeremy Lin

time will tell... first it was "it was just one game" then it was "it wasn't against a good defense".. fair enough.. i speculate with the best of them. My track record speaks for itself.

as i said he has incredible court vision.. better than anyone i've seen since Nash. CP3 is up there comparably.. but that's about it.. it's how he reads the floor, the tempo that he plays at, and the plays he makes for his teammates..

CP3 and Lin.. will both have their best years with a guy named chandler.. not a coincidence... basketball is very much a team game and very few point guards have ever had the type of immediate impact that he's had with the knicks.. you guys fail to remember that they were 2-11 in the games prior to him playing.. they were DONE. he single-handedly revived that team and has brought out the best ball that Novak, Fields (yes including last year), Jeffries, Chandler, etc have to offer. If that doesn't correlate to his awareness rating then i dont' know what does.

my point is you guys want to wait before putting the cart before the horse and that i can understand.. but i know what i know when it comes to ball and the guy creates opportunities on a level that very few have ever shown the propensity to do. Again, time will tell.. i had him at 71, now at 82.. and i wouldn't at all be surprised if he continues to go up..

My analysis is my analysis, you don't have to like it.

I apologize for coming off crude, but may I ask if you are Asian (or Asian American)? I've noticed plenty of people on the University of Illinois campus talking about Lin and most (~90%) were of Asian heritage.

To say that a guy who's averaging 5.6 TOPG in those 10 games he's dominated (and has 55 turnovers in the 9 starts during that stint) has legendary passing ability / court vision is laughable at best. He does some things really well -- which you wouldn't expect because he doesn't have long arms, a ridiculous vertical jump, or killer first step -- such as getting to the line and finish at the rim, but he DEFINITELY has his faults. The other thing you conveniently forget to mention is that all those guys he's "resurrecting" or bringing to the top of their game are limited offensively (either slashers such as Fields or spot up shooters like Novak). He's not exactly taking the ball away from them as they are not likely to create their own offense. He helps them by slashing to the rim and kicking it out to them (or finding cutters) but he's doing so at a heavy expense (especially a PG) of around a 1.7 Assist to TO ratio (top of my head math...not guaranteed to be true! [91-56]). Also, let's not kid ourselves, the offense has NOT improved since Carmelo went down and Amare missed some games. It regressed but the defense improved and that was going to happen since primary offensive players known for their sieve defense were replaced by role-players known for playing defense (Fields, Jeffries, Shumpert, etc.)

I like the kid because he's humble and defying the odds similarly to Manu Ginobili and Gilbert Arenas, but let's stay grounded and NOT go overboard with this "greatest of all time at X because Analyst A and I say so".

[godsgift2dagame]

Re: Jeremy Lin

It would be nice if 2K updated his rating to be a little higher than 76 or whatever. I played my friend using the Knicks and Lin was almost useless being defended my Westbrooke. Give him a little more speed and a LOT more strength and a better mid-range shot.

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I apologize for coming off crude, but may I ask if you are Asian (or Asian American)? I've noticed plenty of people on the University of Illinois campus talking about Lin and most (~90%) were of Asian heritage.

To say that a guy who's averaging 5.6 TOPG in those 10 games he's dominated (and has 55 turnovers in the 9 starts during that stint) has legendary passing ability / court vision is laughable at best. He does some things really well -- which you wouldn't expect because he doesn't have long arms, a ridiculous vertical jump, or killer first step -- such as getting to the line and finish at the rim, but he DEFINITELY has his faults. The other thing you conveniently forget to mention is that all those guys he's "resurrecting" or bringing to the top of their game are limited offensively (either slashers such as Fields or spot up shooters like Novak). He's not exactly taking the ball away from them as they are not likely to create their own offense. He helps them by slashing to the rim and kicking it out to them (or finding cutters) but he's doing so at a heavy expense (especially a PG) of around a 1.7 Assist to TO ratio (top of my head math...not guaranteed to be true! [91-56]). Also, let's not kid ourselves, the offense has NOT improved since Carmelo went down and Amare missed some games. It regressed but the defense improved and that was going to happen since primary offensive players known for their sieve defense were replaced by role-players known for playing defense (Fields, Jeffries, Shumpert, etc.)

I like the kid because he's humble and defying the odds similarly to Manu Ginobili and Gilbert Arenas, but let's stay grounded and NOT go overboard with this "greatest of all time at X because Analyst A and I say so".

no sir I am half persian and all mutt lol.. but my last two favorite players to come out of new york in the last 10 years were both asian.. matsui and lin..

you are looking at him from an individualistic standpoint and i can't argue with any of your analysis.. It's really the intangibles that i'm basing a lot of my opinion off of.. the other thing is the fact that he has lifted the tempo of that team.. whether they were defensive specialists or not is up for debate but the offense literally has no flow when he isn't in the game.. i've watched every game in full since he's been in there.. and we all know how important the transition game is in basketball.. defense helps offense and vice versa... he's helped both at a very high level.. the team plays better in transition with him in the game. Again, that is just my imo. I wouldn't know how to quantify much of that in rating but i did my best.

I can't make too much of the turnovers due to many many reasons.. but mostly because i expect that number to die down when the spotlight dies down a bit.. what we are dealing with here is unprecedented on many levels.. and i especially mean that as a Knicks fan.. this team has the potential to be better than the 94 team if Melo can adapt to his new role..

anyways, i will be back with my individual ratings once i get in front of the 360..

[MrPolo7]

Re: Jeremy Lin

time will tell... first it was "it was just one game" then it was "it wasn't against a good defense".. fair enough.. i speculate with the best of them. My track record speaks for itself.

as i said he has incredible court vision.. better than anyone i've seen since Nash. CP3 is up there comparably.. but that's about it.. it's how he reads the floor, the tempo that he plays at, and the plays he makes for his teammates..

CP3 and Lin.. will both have their best years with a guy named chandler.. not a coincidence... basketball is very much a team game and very few point guards have ever had the type of immediate impact that he's had with the knicks.. you guys fail to remember that they were 2-11 in the games prior to him playing.. they were DONE. he single-handedly revived that team and has brought out the best ball that Novak, Fields (yes including last year), Jeffries, Chandler, etc have to offer. If that doesn't correlate to his awareness rating then i dont' know what does.

my point is you guys want to wait before putting the cart before the horse and that i can understand.. but i know what i know when it comes to ball and the guy creates opportunities on a level that very few have ever shown the propensity to do. Again, time will tell.. i had him at 71, now at 82.. and i wouldn't at all be surprised if he continues to go up..

My analysis is my analysis, you don't have to like it.

Lets just ignore those 55(?) turnovers in 9 games

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Lets just ignore those 55(?) turnovers in 9 games

yes with the amount thats been placed in his hands both literally and figuratively I'd wait to see how he adapts before i started considering it something that he will ALWAYS do.. i know that argument works both ways but he is winning games for his team. It's kind of like when iverson had the bad field goal percentage, they were the type of shots that were easy to put back due to how he would draw the defense.. if that makes any sense.