How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

[VDusen04]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

Additionally, imagine Joe stands 5'10" and is a 'rim grazer' most days; generally the highest leaper when playing with friends and co-workers of similar stature. Again, imagine Joe sprinting down the court, at full speed with CP3 gaining and Joe--who can dunk--has to judge his distance from the basket, plant his foot (or feet), and transfer all his momentum from moving full speed ahead into his jump. The physicality necessary to convert full-speed running momentum into a leap, may be grossly underestimated. Not to mention, Joe doesn't have Shaq-sized hands so he must also control the ball in a manner which allows him to slam it while making the appropriate bodily adjustments accounting for CP3's defense and likely contact.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Dunking, even if one is just a rim-grazer, is not a well-devised plan. Rather, it's a bang-bang play and contrary to popular belief, I think people tend to jump higher while they're being chased. I know full well that's the case for me.

On one hand, I've definitely had my moments where I've leaked out on a fast break and found myself all alone, thus paving the way for an open dunk where I can approach as I see fit. However, I've also had those moments where I pick someone's pocket or am able to just slip past a defender in transition, with them giving valiant chase and forcing me to push as hard as my body allows. Those are the moments where my stride truly opens up, the speed maximizes and my takeoff seems to step up another notch. It is while I'm being chased (or while I'm in a dead-set adrenaline push) that I'm able to jump the highest, often resulting in dunks where I take off from further away and finish stronger than I'm used to.

Granted, it's not a mega-boost. It's not enough to transform non-dunkers to dunkers, but being chased (with the defender behind, not beside or in front), whether it be by some schmo at the park or Chris Paul, usually does nothing but maximize a dunk opportunity, not limit it. All the stuff you brought up: judging distance, transferring momentum, controlling the ball, that all occurs subconsciously in the split second before and during take off. There's not a lot of actual calculating there.

The situation being discussed sort of reminds me the Jason Williams dunk below. How often did we see Williams dunk in his career? Here and there when he was young. How often did we see him take off from well beyond the charge circle? A little less frequently. Why'd it occur here? He was in full stride and he was being chased. He knew he was being chased (looking back), so his body responded. He's able to palm the ball here but as someone who can't palm the rock myself, I can say it doesn't make a difference in terms of gathers in situations like this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UkUNJZSeJR8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[return.specialist]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one....

....It is while I'm being chased (or while I'm in a dead-set adrenaline push) that I'm able to jump the highest, often resulting in dunks where I take off from further away and finish stronger than I'm used to....

....Granted, it's not a mega-boost. It's not enough to transform non-dunkers to dunkers, but being chased (with the defender behind, not beside or in front), whether it be by some schmo at the park or Chris Paul, usually does nothing but maximize a dunk opportunity, not limit it....

Well said. I failed to account for adrenaline in my post and I provided an inaccurate description of the defense as I envisioned it. My apologies for the confusion, as I should have included a video such this, where D-Wade is nearly entangled with Sefolosha as he dribbles toward the hoop (first example that is triggered):

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SmnmW7cYuzM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

I would guess this sort of contact while running at high speed would have a negative impact on a leaper of average height.

All the stuff you brought up: judging distance, transferring momentum, controlling the ball, that all occurs subconsciously in the split second before and during take off. There's not a lot of actual calculating there.

Myself, I jump highest off of my left foot however, I am most naturally a two-footed jumper, which I plant with my right foot. As such, I am keenly aware (perhaps too much so) of my take-offs because often I will end up leaping from my right foot which significantly lowers my vertical. This often causes me problems in the break away and so i try to just go with the flow and leap off the right. In regards to creating oneself in the game, all of this coalesces nicely with the aforementioned:

Basically, Physical Attributes are good to go, mental attributes and defense are not.

because my player would be more likely to make mistakes due to over thinking--if there were a rating for ironic process (see ironic process theory) or a similar process where thought interferes with action.

[Genocide3883]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

Dunking and Vertical will definitely be at 25 for me, I'm 5'8", and I haven't trained myself to jump higher yet. So can barely graze just above the bottom of the net.

[VDusen04]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

Well said. I failed to account for adrenaline in my post and I provided an inaccurate description of the defense as I envisioned it. My apologies for the confusion, as I should have included a video such this, where D-Wade is nearly entangled with Sefolosha as he dribbles toward the hoop (first example that is triggered):

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SmnmW7cYuzM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

I would guess this sort of contact while running at high speed would have a negative impact on a leaper of average height.



Myself, I jump highest off of my left foot however, I am most naturally a two-footed jumper, which I plant with my right foot. As such, I am keenly aware (perhaps too much so) of my take-offs because often I will end up leaping from my right foot which significantly lowers my vertical. This often causes me problems in the break away and so i try to just go with the flow and leap off the right. In regards to creating oneself in the game, all of this coalesces nicely with the aforementioned:



because my player would be more likely to make mistakes due to over thinking--if there were a rating for ironic process (see ironic process theory) or a similar process where thought interferes with action.

Good stuff, and I agree what we saw from Wade would interfere with not just a leaper of average height, but virtually anyone. I still can't believe Thabo was able to put down a reverse dunk in a situation like that.

I also agree about the two-foot jumping. I went through a phase in high school of being strictly a two-foot dunker and what you mentioned occurred on virtually every given fast break. No matter how far out into the open floor, I was always thinking about the defense behind me because I knew I'd have to set both feet to rise and that'd potentially allow for the trailing defense to recover. Then I'd start thinking about slowing down, not setting my feet too aggressively, etc. The biggest and best alteration I ever could have made was to switch back to being a primarily one-foot dunker, thus allowing for those seamless, high speed takeoffs.

Finally, good stuff on ironic process theory. I didn't know that had a real name so I appreciate the dropping of knowledge. Lord knows I've been guilty of that. I'm not quite sure how it'd ever fit into a video game though. I'm still not sure my leaping would suffer any greater than any other player if running nearly side by side with Dwyane Wade. My bigger concern in that situation would be the fact that Wade is bigger, stronger, more athletic and all around a better ball player so even if I maximize my leap in that case, he's likely eating it off the glass. I might be tempted to pull the ol' middle school routine where a player sprints for a fast break then comes to a complete stop at the rim and pump fakes (drawing Wade to leap out of the picture), at which point I'd have an open layup, until a trailing LeBron came and grabbed it with his armpit.

[Ramboooo]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

Haven't you people heard? "You can't teach height." Just because you think your average YMCA basketball skills are enough to compete in the NBA doesn't mean your right or even close to being right for that matter. Fact is, if you're not at least 6'2 and a great athlete with good basketball fundamentals you're not going to translate into the NBA. I also doubt any of you are Allen Iverson or Rajon Rondo or any number of shorter talented guards.

I've always found it funny when people talk about such nonsense as this. We're talking about the elite players in the world and how YOU, some average Joe Schmoe, would stack up. Fact is, most of these guys are 6'something to 7 feet, elite athletes, and have great basketball skills. I know there have been big men who made it into the NBA mostly/solely based on their height but all of them have been low minute role players or bench warmers. So unless you've been gifted with great height you're fooling yourself thinking you could compete or be in the NBA. Get your head out of the clouds.

You can't teach height -- that's kinda my point. But height doesn't mean you have elite skills. There are a lot of RAW players in the NBA, big men especially, who just look LOST. But they're kept on a team because of their potential. You hear it around draft time and from scouts -- "although raw, the combination of size and athleticism for that Center is intriguing" etc.
So I'm willing to bet that on some individual attributes, the average baller could compete (not compete with the overall NBA player - height especially, but an attribute of an NBA player). Some could run faster than Scalabrine or shoot open midrange shots better than Shaq, etc. And I'm sure many Joe Shmoes have better basketball IQ than J. McGee.

It's the combination of height and athleticism and enough skills that make them elite. But that doesn't inherently mean they are the most skilled players in the world or that every single NBA player has the best basketball IQ or the best court vision or the most clutch, or the best fundamentals, or the most competitive hearts, etc. etc etc


If all the 7fters in the league came down with a disease that made them shrink in height to 6ft, how elite would they be? And if every 6ft YMCA player grew a foot, how many scouts would they attract? So for NBA 2K12, the unrealistic exagerration would be making yourself a lot taller than you are, but some skills could translate to the next level with that exaggerated height.

[Ramboooo]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

I think you just misinterpreted what he was saying. When he said, "So yeah I'm thinking there's a number of skills that can be boosted for the avg. baller that can compete with an NBA player realistically" I believe he meant there are some attributes we apply to the 2K version of ourselves that could be similar in level to some NBA players. I don't think he meant he could literally compete with NBA guys, just that certain ratings may compete (or compare favorably) to some NBA players.

An example, as I mentioned previously, may be the vertical rating. I am certain many regular folks have verticals that exceed many NBA players. As such, that'd be one 2K rating that'd compete with that of some NBA players.


You make a number of good points. I'm not familiar with acceptable sprinting times though, so I cannot comment on the viability of some middle schoolers outrunning some slow-footed big men. However, your general premise is relatively on point. NBA players are not NBA players by being the fastest, most wildest, most high rising, most crazy shot making people in the world. I mean, sometimes they can be. But often, what places non-giant NBA players above the rest is the litany of things on the court they do effectively and correctly.

At least one solid example I've seen thrown around would be Derek Fisher. I have in fact heard folks state they could give him the business on a basketball court. And here's the thing, if Fisher showed up to our local street court, it's not as if he'd be twice as fast as everyone, shammgodding left and right, while dunking between his legs. And he surely wouldn't make every shot. But what you would get is a supremely conditioned bull, taking excellent care of the ball, completing pin point passes, outspeeding those bigger than him and outmuscling those smaller. Further, with most street courts being equipped with high school three point lines, Fisher would be dangerous at least 5 feet beyond that.

So again, maybe some folks would be able to out-leap Fish. Maybe some people would be flat out quicker. Maybe some stronger. But what makes Derek Fisher Derek Fisher is his combination of talents and abilities in conjunction with the knowledge of how to use them. He's not superman, and I'm not even sure how many oo's and ahh's he'd elicit from a street crowd (aside from when he rained from deep) but he'd have a lot of the pieces very effectively put together, and he'd dominate every game through normalcy (running, cutting, making the shots he should, completing the correct passes, etc.).

I haven't played against any current NBA players but even playing against very good college guys (or foreign league guys), I was initially surprised at how little their effectiveness was based upon the spectacular. I'd hear or read about them averaging 20 a night and I'd assume this meant they probably got theirs by shaking and baking, crossing, dropping, dunking and reversing. Instead, a lot of times I've been amazed by how much talented players are able to simplify the game; a lot more routine (but effective) maneuvers and mid-range jumpshots than I'd expected.

Also, I think one of the big things that slips past us is the speed of the game and the stamina required. Of all of our average shortcomings, I think our lack of stamina would be the thing to hit us first, and it'd hit us hard. I played a hypothetical quarter with my 26 overall player and with his stamina at I think 35, he was able to play six minutes before getting the G icon. I don't think I'd last that long.

I will say this though, I think 25 for NBA 3pt. is too low of a rating. Even in 2K12 Practice, where shots seem to be more likely to drop, I couldn't hit an NBA three with that rating. Out of 20 attempts, zero makes. As much as we may want to discredit each of our game skills, I think it's likely a fair share of us are going to be able to avoid going 0-20 from the NBA arc in a shootaround.

+1 sums it up great

[return.specialist]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

Finally, good stuff on ironic process theory. I didn't know that had a real name so I appreciate the dropping of knowledge.

no doubt. I think that 'ironic process' or 'over thinking' attribute would work well for non-human controlled games or players, and would be positively correlated with 'clutch' and 'consistency' in that a computer-controlled player would be more likely to make stupid mistakes during a late game situation (e.g. Westbrook after the game 4 jump ball) or in the middle of a poor performance (e.g. James Harden standing, holding the ball for five seconds with a wide open mid-range shot).

I might be tempted to pull the ol' middle school routine where a player sprints for a fast break then comes to a complete stop at the rim and pump fakes

Which is one of the many tactics us average Joes would have to employ if we were ever pitted against professionals! 'Cause 40" vertical or not, Wade is out jumping me in that situation.

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that all the players in the league are either uber athletic, unique in their anatomical structure, or some combination of both--even those who appear pedestrian. As such it would make sense for more diverse attributes to account for the differences of an elite player, and a decent talent. For example, Kobe Bryant and Rickey Davis; two players of similar stature and athletic capabilities (c.f., Bryant 1997;Davis, 2000) perhaps even in playing style in some respect. However, one--Kobe, in case you were unsure--is outright a superior ball player. Demonstrated by his willingness to attempt a between-the-legs-dunk on the fast break, and then having the audacity to miss the dunk, Ricky Davis clearly has a propensity for committing mental errors and would have a much different rating than Kobe if this were an attribute.

[shorty12345]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

Well said. I failed to account for adrenaline in my post and I provided an inaccurate description of the defense as I envisioned it. My apologies for the confusion, as I should have included a video such this, where D-Wade is nearly entangled with Sefolosha as he dribbles toward the hoop (first example that is triggered):

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SmnmW7cYuzM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

I would guess this sort of contact while running at high speed would have a negative impact on a leaper of average height.



Myself, I jump highest off of my left foot however, I am most naturally a two-footed jumper, which I plant with my right foot. As such, I am keenly aware (perhaps too much so) of my take-offs because often I will end up leaping from my right foot which significantly lowers my vertical. This often causes me problems in the break away and so i try to just go with the flow and leap off the right. In regards to creating oneself in the game, all of this coalesces nicely with the aforementioned:



because my player would be more likely to make mistakes due to over thinking--if there were a rating for ironic process (see ironic process theory) or a similar process where thought interferes with action.

Didn't realize he traveled and took 3 steps until now, never-less still a crazy finish.

[Genocide3883]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

If anything I could be a homeless mans White Muggsy Bogues. lmao I'm only 5'8"

[VDusen04]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

I played a quarter with my 26 rated self-creation (with upwards of 15 attributes still left untouched). I made myself a starter for the Jazz and I played the Nuggets. The most noticeable immediate drawback in the 2K world was my defensive ability. Arron Afflalo more or less walked around me off the dribble in three out of four trips down the floor.

One thing I will say, I seemed a little more effective on my layups than I thought I'd be (for being rated a 45). Maybe that was a reflection of playing on pro difficulty. I think I was able to force myself to score 6 points in the first quarter on around 50% shooting (two free throws, two relatively contested layups).

[8KB24]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

How would you create a 5'10 point guard with little to no athleticism, slight dribling skills(i can cross my opponent but my basketball co-players are below average defenders), good layup ability, but with amazing court vision and passing? I can make 95% of behind the back passes, those bullet passes and pretty much can find my teammate anytime, anywhere.. Oh and I'm all about being a hustle player..
I'd rate myself something like this...

Inside shot - 70
Close shot - 50
Medium - 45
3 pt - 40
free throw - 75(based off my real FT %)
Shot low post - 25
Layup - 65
dunk - 25
standing dunk - 25
shoot in traffic - 40
off hand dribling - 45
ball security - 60
pass - 85
hands(I'm 5'10 white dude and I can palm the ball like I'm Yao Ming) - 60
offensive rebound - 45
defensive rebound - 60
Defensive low post - 25
block - 35
steal - 50(i have pretty fast hands while being on defense)
on ball defense - 40(i can keep up with my opponents but when someone great plays against me..i have tendency to get crossed over)
hustle - 70
speed - 60(i am faster than big baby)
stamina - 55 (damn, i can't play 5 min quarters in my local basketball game)
Vertical - 45( i can touch the rim..and that's pretty much it )
durability - 55 ( when i played football/soccer my knees were pretty much banged up and that's why i decided to retire from football..just like brandon roy from bball )
quickness - 50(agility.. LOL)
strentgh - 25(I'm prety sure almost everybody can back me down to the hoop from the 3 pt line)
offensive clutch - 25 (since i can't breathe at the end of the game i can't make a shot..so..25 )
defensive clutch - 25 also
emotion - 99 (artest..pfftch he's little baby for me when i get pissed )
offensive awarenes - 45 ( so i don't blow out of proportion my ratings..but i do have pretty good offensive awareness)
def awareness - 25
consistency - 25 (duck yeah)


What do you guys think?

[VDusen04]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

How would you create a 5'10 point guard with little to no athleticism, slight dribling skills(i can cross my opponent but my basketball co-players are below average defenders), good layup ability, but with amazing court vision and passing? I can make 95% of behind the back passes, those bullet passes and pretty much can find my teammate anytime, anywhere.. Oh and I'm all about being a hustle player..
I'd rate myself something like this...

Inside shot - 70
Close shot - 50
Medium - 45
3 pt - 40
free throw - 75(based off my real FT %)
Shot low post - 25
Layup - 65
dunk - 25
standing dunk - 25
shoot in traffic - 40
off hand dribling - 45
ball security - 60
pass - 85
hands(I'm 5'10 white dude and I can palm the ball like I'm Yao Ming) - 60
offensive rebound - 45
defensive rebound - 60
Defensive low post - 25
block - 35
steal - 50(i have pretty fast hands while being on defense)
on ball defense - 40(i can keep up with my opponents but when someone great plays against me..i have tendency to get crossed over)
hustle - 70
speed - 60(i am faster than big baby)
stamina - 55 (damn, i can't play 5 min quarters in my local basketball game)
Vertical - 45( i can touch the rim..and that's pretty much it )
durability - 55 ( when i played football/soccer my knees were pretty much banged up and that's why i decided to retire from football..just like brandon roy from bball )
quickness - 50(agility.. LOL)
strentgh - 25(I'm prety sure almost everybody can back me down to the hoop from the 3 pt line)
offensive clutch - 25 (since i can't breathe at the end of the game i can't make a shot..so..25 )
defensive clutch - 25 also
emotion - 99 (artest..pfftch he's little baby for me when i get pissed )
offensive awarenes - 45 ( so i don't blow out of proportion my ratings..but i do have pretty good offensive awareness)
def awareness - 25
consistency - 25 (duck yeah)


What do you guys think?

It's tough to say a whole lot without knowing how skilled you truly are. However, just from the outside looking in, right away I'd say the Pass and Rebound numbers would likely have to take a hit. I think an 85 Pass in 2K would put you in line with the best of the best and unless you're a passing savant, I'm not sure that'll be the case. Also, as a self-proclaimed unathletic 5'10'' guard, I can't see your rebounding ability amounting to much of anything, particularly if your game is played entirely below the rim.

Just to re-assure you, I had my pass and rebounding numbers rated pretty low just as well, so I'm not just trying to randomly pick you apart. I just think those are two categories that may translate very poorly from regular basketball when accounting for the NBA's combination of size, speed, length, and athleticism.

[8KB24]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

As I've said I'm hustle player and I replace my unathleticism with my desire to play hard and, ironically, phisical basketball. I'm not afraid to take a hit nor give one... So that's why I have my def. rebounding at 60 so I can outrebound guards of my size(6'1 and below) and still I'll get outrebounded by the likes of Redick since he is taller than me. About the Passing rating.. That passing rating would make me average 7, 7.5 assists per game since I have tendency to always look for a teammate under the rim or who is wide open rather than brick the ball of the rim. And in a pickup game I always have 8-10 assists in a very limited playing time.. So I think that is my (only ?) strength... And since I'm very unathletic skinny undersized point guard I might have problem wih my passing since most of the guards are extremely athletic and have damn fast hands... Oh, and they are bigger than me... I have(at least I think) pretty low most of the ratings. I have highlighted my game with one skill, passing, since I'm coming to the NBA with one strength...Just like Rondo was coming to the league with absolutely no shooting ability, but he had one thing I don't have...Speed and quickness... I try to model my game after him, but with lack of time and school I don't have enouogh time to practice on my ball-handling but I am going to, in fact already am, this summer to get myself in shape

I just realized I translated centimetres wrong to feet.. I'm 180 cm which is 5'9. Damn I'm short.

[VDusen04]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

I was going about re-creating two small sized high school rosters and I came across a slight issue. I assumed most every rebound rating for a low level high school player in 2K would be 25, aka the lowest possible. However, if I run a group of low level players against themselves, there'd still be better rebounders among them, so some folks would have to have slightly higher than bottom rebound ratings, yes? Does that make real life sense?

That aside, I thought this would be a fun topic to bump just to see what other folks thought about this subject as a whole. What do you think would be your true-to-life rating? The current lowest rated NBA player I can see at this point is Alexis Ajinca, who is 7'2'' and hold ratings in the 20's, 30's, and 40's for a lot of categories. He came out to a 43 overall. On the flip side, the lowest rated guard appears to be Pape Sy at 51 overall. I still believe it'd be possible for some solid ballplayers to register in the 30's (or for some college level players in the low 40's) but still be light years away from the NBA.

[raiderphantom]

Re: How do I go about creating myself in 2K? Stat wise?

I always create my friends and I every year and play an association. I release all the players on NY and use them. It's fun seeing where Melo, Amare, etc. go too.

I try to compare myself and friends based on skill and play style to real NBA players. I take their overall and try to make it close to that.