My Problem With Sim Players

[ProtoPunch]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

I have to admit I'm quite guilty of skipping free-throw routines since I'm accustomed to having them turned off in MyCareer and Association modes because it saves time by keeping the game moving. Same with action replays and after basket camera cuts. From now on I'll keep this in mind though, so thanks for bringing it up.

I'd love to get to the point where you can run plays without the floor diagrams but memorizing my filled-to-the-brim playbook with all the options is a bit much. I've tried minimizing my playbook to a core set of key plays but then there's always that one play I would have run but didn't assign.

[AllStarDaDon]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

You're not too emotionally attached for wanting SIM. You're just too emotionally attached because you're going crazy over the top on this post. A lot of anger coming through. IMO, if a game upsets you that much it's a bit weird.

And to the other dude, I know what forum I'm on. I've been here 9 years longer than you, lol. Judging by the rating of this thread I don't think I'm totally out of line.

Anger? No anger at all I'm just expressing how I feel.

I'm rarely mad if ever when I play this game. I'm far from upset/angry/emotionally attached to a video game.

Also I could honestly care less about how my thread is rated I never paid any attention to thread ratings on this forum I never even knew you could rate threads

How is he upset with the game? He's probably one that enjoys it the most.

You're definately out of line, I have no clue what you're doing or tryeing to achieve here.

Exactly.

I enjoy this game more then 98% of this forum. All people do on this forum is complain about the game, I'm always the one defending it.

I love the game it's the most realistic basketball game ever IMO. I like to replay good plays/good moves hell I even show replays of my opponents when they make a good move, score, block or something.

I'm farrrr from bitter about this game.

[KillerHog471]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

Anger? No anger at all I'm just expressing how I feel.

I'm rarely mad if ever when I play this game. I'm far from upset/angry/emotionally attached to a video game.

Also I could honestly care less about how my thread is rated I never paid any attention to thread ratings on this forum I never even knew you could rate threads

Exactly.

I enjoy this game more then 98% of this forum. All people do on this forum is complain about the game, I'm always the one defending it.

I love the game it's the most realistic basketball game ever IMO. I like to replay good plays/good moves hell I even show replays of my opponents when they make a good move, score, block or something.

I'm farrrr from bitter about this game.

A lot of us complain so the game gets better. I agree with everything else you said.

[KSOR24]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

Guys I'm starting a sim league on XBOX 5 minute quarters all star default message me if you want in.

[stillwaters]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

I understand what AllStar is saying about the timeouts; in two of the leagues I'm involved in the sliders have been tweaked for the players to tire much faster than usual. This forces owners to play their bench and it also deters them from abusing turbo.
That point leads me to my two cents on this "sim" matter: I'm in three "sim" leagues online, One allows turbo to be used basically anytime; another allows it to be tapped when going around a pick, after a defender is beat to go in for a dunk, or when pushing the ball after a turnover or if the opponent is pressing; and the third league only allows when pushing the ball after turnovers or right at the rim for a dunk, there is absolutely no using turbo in the halfcourt set.
It would seem that the last two leagues are stuffy, stifling, and everyone plays the same, but nothing could be more removed from the truth. Without turbo abuse, the emphasis on plays becomes much more important; for instance did anyone know that the play 1-4 Full in the '98 Jazz playbook has like 8 different options! You could run that play several times in a quarter and end up with different players taking good shots.
After finding the "sim" leagues with turbo restrictions, I almost want to quit the league without it because most of its owners play similar; the most overused offensive series involves setting a pick somewhere on the court, turboing in an arch around the pick, then shooting an uncontested midrange jumpshot.
But it comes back to what Coach 2K was saying, not everyone is on the same level when it comes to playing in a particular manner. I for one love to run plays and play others that love to run plays.

[AdamBa17]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

Well, maybe I stereotyped you as a certain type of person without knowing who you are.

Point I'm trying to make is though, so many different people play the game for different reasons. Not every wants to be SIM. I don't see the point in judging people and getting angry at them for it. Yeah, I don't like playing cheesers either, but I just stay away.

The thing is, there are plenty of games, eg. Goldeneye, where people don't play for realism or accuracy or anything, they just wanna speed run and beat times and find glitches and exploit them and have fun. I know this is a sports game and it's different. But tbh, I have friends who like to have FIFA tournaments and noone cares about replicating the sport properly. Otherwise they would have to play 45 mins per half. They put it on 5 minute halfs of something, and take crazy shots and are elated if they can win 7-2 or so in 10 minute halfs.

I'm not saying that this is an ideal way to be. We also have to respect people like yourself and myself (to a lesser degree) who want to replicate realism. But to hate on people for wanting something different is stupid IMO. Not everyone is as serious about the game. Let them have their fun with it, and just stay away from them.

I'm sure the "fake sim" people you're referring to aren't that bothered about calling timeouts more often or whatever. And if you think that they DO care about being more realistic, then address your message to them in a way that's not confrontational, otherwise you're gonna get people saying things like "wow, tell us how good are you really are!" like you did.

Again, you have to realise that there are lots of players (actually, I think the MAJORITY of the consumer market) that just play games FOR FUN. I think the hardcore sim heads are actually a minority in the consumer maket. There are sites like SDA (speed demo archives) where people just try to beat games as fast as possible ie. setting world records for completing levels on Goldeneye. They usually finish with an accuracy of like 10% because they're using shooting glitches to speed up, but they don't care. They care about the CHALLENGE of trying to push a game to it's limits.

Likewise, there are probably similar people who just want to score as many points as possible with Melo online. They don't care about realism. They just want to set a record. Or they want to see the most points they can physically score in one game. It's cheese, yeah. And I don't do it. But I understand that there is a whole world of people who don't have the same goals.

Basically, your expectations are way too high. You enter a random pool of player matchups online and expect people to not skip cutscenes, call timeouts. You either need to accept that this isn't the way everyone plays, or you need to create your own league and play within your own rules. Bashing the majority of people who don't have the same rules and values governing how they spend their free time with their game is stupid. And if you DO have a league and you're aiming this at the people within it, you should really be more specific, or create this message somewhere privately.

[AdamBa17]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

How is he upset with the game? He's probably one that enjoys it the most.

You're definately out of line, I have no clue what you're doing or tryeing to achieve here.

I don't even know why you're getting involved. Noone's even talking to you.

If you're so in love with this post, go and join a league with him and play however you want. It's cool for him to have his own rules and methods about how HE likes to play the game. So it makes sense for him to create his own little bubble where people can play however they want between those lines.

Coming on the general forum and moaning at everyone for not doing it is like going into a McDonalds and shouting at people who won't order a BIG MAC just because it's your favourite and you want them to. Just create your own little BIG MAC LOVERS club, hang out together and you can sit there together and say whatever you want about other people.

This method of bitching to the general section of the forum is so pointless. If he had listed reasons that he thought could make people better sim players and offered some sort of VALUE, then it would have been a great post. Like "Hey guys, just some thoughts about what people should be doing to get a more SIM experience"....That would have been cool. Except he didn't do that. It's just another elitist post. Which is fine, if it's aimed towards certain people that are in a league that he governs. But when it's towards the forum in general....no.

And I have no idea what YOU are trying to achieve? Are you partners? Does he pay you for commercial advertising? Are you trying to be romantically involved? Is he your bff? I don't know...

Anyway, the post that got the most "likes" in this thread is "Wow tell us more about how good you are!"...showing that the majority of people reading this post agree....it's stupid.

[raiderphantom]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

You're not too emotionally attached for wanting SIM. You're just too emotionally attached because you're going crazy over the top on this post. A lot of anger coming through. IMO, if a game upsets you that much it's a bit weird.

And to the other dude, I know what forum I'm on. I've been here 9 years longer than you, lol. Judging by the rating of this thread I don't think I'm totally out of line.

Angry? He wants the game played a certain way. Pretty sure 90 something percent of CoD players are 1000x more angry breaking their controllers etc. this is no different then wanting a better product made by 2K or calling out cheesers. He's on a SIM forum, expressing an opinion about how it should be more SIM. Do your friends know that you've been browsing a video game forum the last nine years? Isn't that too attached to something? What exactly are you here for then?

[raiderphantom]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

Lol seriously? Oh man why is vni getting involved? True, this isn't a public forum or anything.

AllStar isn't being stubborn here, sir. He didn't make a thread calling out all players, he called out sim heads. He knows there are casual gamers. Now for the people who aren't hardcore sim like myself, I still see his point completely because he's going the extra mile to make it as realistic as possible. Everyone has their issues with people and their play style. His is just at a more advanced level.

I honestly play 6 min quarters and try to assume all stats are cut in half because I don't want to spend 90 minutes in one game. But I try to imitate players as much as possible and run the sets those teams run and still run a normal rotation as opposed to making line changes like its hockey at the end of a quarter. However, I got nothing but respect for someone that takes the realism all the way down to the last detail. I'm certainly not going to insult someone for trying to make the game better.

[AdamBa17]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

Haha, ok. First thing...You seem to have this assumption that this forum is full of 100% hardcore sim heads. Maybe back in 2005 or so you were right, not any more.

I don't disagree with SIM at all. I'm saying, why moan about it here? Why not do something, like create a league?

How does he know the people he's playing online are even FROM OS?! You know there are millions of people who play this game who don't visit this forum don't you? And if he is specifically making sure he plays certain people from this forum because he wants a sim experience, why not put this message towards them people in particular? Or as I've had to say again and again....create a private league? That's what most sim heads have been doing here for years. That's why you don't see the big players moaning on the forum. Because they carefully select who they play against and set rules to abide by. This isnt the ONLINE LEAGUE forum, this is the general forum.

And yes, it's a public forum. So what's wrong with MY opinon, as opposed to vni's?

Any to say he's trying to make the game better...it's going to go over most peoples heads. You need to be selective in who you play, and tell those people the rules. Like I said, if he's playing random matchups online, 99% of the people he will play against won't even READ this post, let alone this forum. And if he's not playing random matchups, and he IS carefully selecting his players, why isn't he addressing to them? Like, in a PM? Or in a topic specifically about HIS LEAGUE?

[AdamBa17]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

Angry? He wants the game played a certain way. Pretty sure 90 something percent of CoD players are 1000x more angry breaking their controllers etc. this is no different then wanting a better product made by 2K or calling out cheesers. He's on a SIM forum, expressing an opinion about how it should be more SIM. Do your friends know that you've been browsing a video game forum the last nine years? Isn't that too attached to something? What exactly are you here for then?

Exactly, you said it yourself. This post is no different than just calling out cheesers. Well, here's a brain busting hint...STOP PLAYING CHEESERS. Problem solved.

And I don't really know what you mean about my friends knowing I'm on here? That's confusing...Not everyone comes to this forum for a 100% sim experience. It's the best forum on the internet for NBA 2K, regardless of SIM vs. CHEESE. I'm here for a sim experience too. But I don't create topics in the main forum complaining about the way other people play. I'm smart enough to AVOID the people I don't like.

[Optik]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

And if he is specifically making sure he plays certain people from this forum because he wants a sim experience, why not put this message towards them people in particular?

I think it's obvious from his title who he's addressing. No need to take offense to it.

[Vni]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

I don't even know why you're getting involved. Noone's even talking to you.

If you're so in love with this post, go and join a league with him and play however you want. It's cool for him to have his own rules and methods about how HE likes to play the game. So it makes sense for him to create his own little bubble where people can play however they want between those lines.

Coming on the general forum and moaning at everyone for not doing it is like going into a McDonalds and shouting at people who won't order a BIG MAC just because it's your favourite and you want them to. Just create your own little BIG MAC LOVERS club, hang out together and you can sit there together and say whatever you want about other people.

This method of bitching to the general section of the forum is so pointless. If he had listed reasons that he thought could make people better sim players and offered some sort of VALUE, then it would have been a great post. Like "Hey guys, just some thoughts about what people should be doing to get a more SIM experience"....That would have been cool. Except he didn't do that. It's just another elitist post. Which is fine, if it's aimed towards certain people that are in a league that he governs. But when it's towards the forum in general....no.

And I have no idea what YOU are trying to achieve? Are you partners? Does he pay you for commercial advertising? Are you trying to be romantically involved? Is he your bff? I don't know...

Anyway, the post that got the most "likes" in this thread is "Wow tell us more about how good you are!"...showing that the majority of people reading this post agree....it's stupid.

Wow you're so obssessed with likes and thread's ratings.

The rest of your post is just ridiculous. People come here complaining about the game beeing garbage in quick ranked game. I just give them the most easy fix ever: Don't play it. You don't have to.

I'am not forcing anyone into anything.

What should we be talking about in this forum then sir? We should discuss player's overalls and blame the game for beeing garbage?

[sonicboy793]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

I honestly dont under understand sim players.

They claim there sim but won't call there first timeout until the 4th quarter in a 12 minute game. I can't stand playing people who won't burn a timeout until the 2nd half because it throws off my rotation. And if were emulating the NBA you should be calling timeouts to constantly coach, mess with matchups, stops runs and momentum substiute players in and out due to certtain reasons that varies game to game.

Also when the other person doesn't call timeouts it messes with fatigue players get tired because there isn't a break in action, making them not as effective due to fatigue. If you guys were real hoop heads or sim heads you would knows theres TV timeouts in every quarter and would try to emulate that. I just don't understand how majority of you play 12 minute quarters and won't burn a timeout until the 3rd or 4th quarter.

Then people always want to know why there losing, or complain the game is to easy to score. But you guys won't call timeout when your opponent is in the middle of a 10 point run. I see it everyday I play people I go on a 10 point run, and they won't call a timeout. Then it happens to be the same people on OS complaining momentum isn't real, or it's broken or the game is to easy to score.

Free throw routines. Can you guys please stop skipping them? It's annoying because I'm trying to make subs and follow real life rotations and you guys are x'ing through the routines not even giving me time to sub not even a quick second to stretch if I need to. NBA players go through their routines in real life, very rarely do you see a player step to the line and just chuck up there free throw with no routine.

Cut scenes can you guys stop skipping these also? IMO it ruins the flow of the game and doesn't make it seem like a real NBA game. I love reading the real life up to date NBA stats during ball stoppages, it gives you info on the league. Also it flows like a real NBA game. As a sim player I want to have a NBA experiencine and emulate it the best I can, you guys are just so quick to rush back into the action it's annoying as ****. Can we just let the game flow please?

Then you got guys hitting you up for 7-10 minute "sim" leagues. SMH playing a game with the minutes shorter then 12 minutes is NOT NBA basketball. Some guys also hit you up for 8 minutes games that is NOT NBA basketball.

These are just a couple things that pisses me off with majority of sim players. It's annoying man you guys call yall selves sim but don't call no timeouts, make no coaching adjustments etc. The only person I really enjoy playing is EC WORLDWIDE because we are like minded individuals that just wants the full sim experience. We want the NBA flow of game, we call TV timeouts at the same time NBA games are scheduled to call them, we make coaching adjustments frequently, watch our free throw routines, we play with real life NBA defensive strategies and we actually run legit offense.

It's gotten to the point where me and him have our playvision completely off. Not on full, or lite but completely off. Because we understand NBA offenses so well we don't need diagrams on the court blindly telling us where to go. We read and react, also if you really know your offenses and sets it's easy to know what the next step is in the play is.

Guys I play love using the excuse "I never played with this team before", "I didn't know the plays I was running" etc. How come me and EC are able to pickup any of the 30 teams score, play D, run the offense, run plays we never ran before with the playvision off and with success?

2 possible solutions to your problem
1. go outside and play real basketball
2. calm down its a videogame

[Vni]

Re: My Problem With Sim Players

I don't see what's wrong with his view of the game. I don't think we'd see that type of 'its just a video game' argument on a flight simulator's forum or Arma's forum or whatever simulation's game. I think that just shows that most people play the game casually (wich is nothing wrong).

Did you guys feel offended by his post? Because you know it's aimed at me too and i didn't feel offended. I sometimes break the free throw routine of my players, I sometimes am too lazy to call a timeout etc. But really Allstardadon ain't a boring type of sim players, he also ain't shy in helping you to get better. He's just hardcore and I can understand his frustration.

So really I don't think people should be offended by his post at all he's just voicing his opinion, he ain't hating. If you don't know him at all though I can see where you guys are coming from.

Anyway I love how all theses arguments are meaning less on a universe's scale yet we're very passionate about it. Nothing wrong with that, no harm or anger on my side guys.