True Franchise Players in 2k13

[NYR LundqvistSTEPANu]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

My point exactly. He's also one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.

I'd rather have Rajon Rondo, who gets the rest of the team involved and does a lot of things fairly well, over a "franchise player" PG like Kyrie, who is a phenomenal shooter and solid passer, but still has lots of things he needs to polish up on in order to be on Rondo's level.

look freedom of speech blah blah and whatever but this is just false. False.

False. Did you see what Kyrie did to the Thunder recently? I know you didn't get to see him drop 40 on my knicks making plays and hitting shots WITH HANDS IN HIS FACE, effortlessly. Looks like you lost a bit common sense while vehemently defending you point. Maybe you just haven't seen kyrie enough. A healthy Kyrie on the Celtics would be a better team with just a healthy Rondo. It's no surprise really that the celtics are proving to be fine without him. Doc is one of the best coaches in the nba and they have smart & experienced players who would make anybody's job easier.

Kyrie has none of that. That kid has clutch in him, that kid has the ability to single-handedly bring you back and win games for you. If you want to point to triple doubles all day fine but there is no way, Rondo is on Kyrie's level. Just no. I think you need to watch him play more because he is BEYOND the real deal. To say he isn't on Rondo's level is laughable. This kid has ability Rondo will never have.

Damn. You need to see one of these games where Kyrie just goes off and makes it look easy. You will immediately change your mind.

I normally would never defend a player not on the Knicks, but this case was unique. Kyrie will win you more games than Rondo if they were surrounded by the same team. This dude has the potential to be a Durant/Lebron stopper. He just needs help, and he can get in their way.

[Phreezy P]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

These guys are just trying to make a case for Rondo being a franchise player, on their list. In 2k, for that matter. We're not talking about who in real life is a 'franchise player'.

The definition of a franchise player is fairly ambiguous and is differing among users here. To be honest, I'm not even sure what the requirements are for a franchise player in 2k.

I think that's the first step to holding a meaningful, respectful debate over franchise players. There's no need for bashing other people's opinions in favor of your own.

I can't really stand ground in this argument because I haven't simmed enough seasons and looked at enough stats to see who garners 'franchise player' respect. A franchise player in 2k and a franchise player in real life are 2 different things.

Also, I think we're talking sim stats only when it comes to franchise players. I'm pretty sure we're all aware of how easy it is to take a minuscule player in 2k and turn him into a franchise player. Sliders make it harder, but if you force the issue, I could turn just about anyone who can score the basketball into a franchise player. Or anyone who can drop dimes can be my franchise player. Or I can make an elite athlete develop a jump shot. Or turn a 7' footer into a beast on the block.

I think you get the point. User vs. CPU franchise players are totally different.

We just need to level the playing field and conduct some more thorough experiments. Throw real life judgment aside, because that has no place in this argument. People are bringing in real life stats and figures like they matter in an argument about who's better in a video game. The title says "in 2k13". If you want to talk about players in real life, there are countless other places on the internet you can talk about that. Even right here on OS there's a forum for real life basketball.

Just suggestions.

I was talking about the game. I have no idea what you are talking about man. Where in my post did you assume I was talking about real life?

[SaylaB]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I was talking about the game. I have no idea what you are talking about man. Where in my post did you assume I was talking about real life?

That part wasn't directed at you. I was more referring to the people that were talking about Rondo and bringing up real life stats and what not.

I suppose it was pointless to quote you. I had a thought when I quoted you that I was going to post about, but I lost track of my initial point and ended up rambling on about a different subject than you posted about.

[jfinger2013]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

franchise players IRL

LBJ
D Howard
KD
D.Rose
CP3
R.Westbrook
K.Love
( thats all i can think of off the top of my head)

On 2k13

IMO there are too many to name i mean every elite player that can score shoot J.R Smith is an elite player on 2k so its just too many to talk about

[Taer]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

what do you mean IRL just 06/07 wade are you serious just those 2 years

To be specific: I feel Wade was a true Franchise player (irl) from the beginning of the 2005 -2006 season until the end of the 2006 - 2007 season. If you look at the 2007 - 2008 season, Wade was on a different (lower) playing level then he was in prior years. From that point forward, he is an elite level player but not a Franchise Player.

That part wasn't directed at you. I was more referring to the people that were talking about Rondo and bringing up real life stats and what not.

I suppose it was pointless to quote you. I had a thought when I quoted you that I was going to post about, but I lost track of my initial point and ended up rambling on about a different subject than you posted about.

A couple of things here:

I define a Franchise Player as an athlete who is not simply the best player on their team, but a player that the team can build their "franchise" (team) around for the foreseeable future (which I define as +/- 10 years). I further define this by limiting the total allowed by using the Bobcat GM's limit of 10 in the original post.

I also don't mind people debating back and forth as long as they are civil to each other - most of the time they bring it back to the 2k13 game and so it is all good so far.

I've played over 10 seasons - sim stats involved - before I came up with my list. I figured that enough time has elapsed since the game's release, that many, if not most could draw upon their experiences this year. Maybe this was wrong

Your absolutely correct the 2k13 list is much different then that of real life's. I've always tried to make the distinction crystal clear here. I accept that people may not have enough game experience to make their own list, however I also think that informed discussion can be made by those same people.

[AntiBandwagoner]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

No Rondo or Kyrie?

[8KB24]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Kobe(can play 5 more years and still be efficient as **** putting up 25+ points per game while shooting 45%), James, Wade, Melo, Rondo, Howard, Unibrow, Rubio(if you know how to use him), Rose Uncle Drew... Basically any player over 84-85 and any 78+ rated under 21 years.

[JazzMan]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

look freedom of speech blah blah and whatever but this is just false. False.

False. Did you see what Kyrie did to the Thunder recently? I know you didn't get to see him drop 40 on my knicks making plays and hitting shots WITH HANDS IN HIS FACE, effortlessly. Looks like you lost a bit common sense while vehemently defending you point. Maybe you just haven't seen kyrie enough. A healthy Kyrie on the Celtics would be a better team with just a healthy Rondo. It's no surprise really that the celtics are proving to be fine without him. Doc is one of the best coaches in the nba and they have smart & experienced players who would make anybody's job easier.

Kyrie has none of that. That kid has clutch in him, that kid has the ability to single-handedly bring you back and win games for you. If you want to point to triple doubles all day fine but there is no way, Rondo is on Kyrie's level. Just no. I think you need to watch him play more because he is BEYOND the real deal. To say he isn't on Rondo's level is laughable. This kid has ability Rondo will never have.

Damn. You need to see one of these games where Kyrie just goes off and makes it look easy. You will immediately change your mind.

I normally would never defend a player not on the Knicks, but this case was unique. Kyrie will win you more games than Rondo if they were surrounded by the same team. This dude has the potential to be a Durant/Lebron stopper. He just needs help, and he can get in their way.

Just because I say Rajon Rondo is a better player overall than Kyrie means I haven't watched Kyrie play before?

I watched the OKC game. He was great in that game. I already said he is a phenomenal shooter and passer. He has some things you can't teach.

But Rondo, in my honest opinion, is the best overall point guard in the NBA today. The only one that I would consider being better than him is CP3.

Quit acting like you can change my mind about this, because it simply isn't going to happen.

[BluFu]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Food for thought: Celtics are 6-0 with Rondo out. Even with key injuries, the Rondoless squad's ball movement and team assist rate is equal or better then with Rondo. D has been better in forcing turn overs as well.

Rondo is an elite player, but like Westbrook, he should be paired with a true Franchise player of Durant's quality.

so you wouldn't consider d-rose a franchise player because bulls are 4th seed without him? its called having a passionate team and coach who refuses to lose. doc even said himself he wouldn't resort to tanking the season.

[nowitsourtime]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

To me a franchise player is a current superstar or can't miss young guy (think of lebron when he came into the league or Kyrie Irving right now). These players are the face of your team. They are the first player you name without any hesitation when asked to name a person of that team. When the game is on the line, the ball is usually in their hands because you don't want anyone else taking that shot.

In real life I would say the franchise players are:
Lebron
Durant
Carmelo
Kobe
Paul
Rose
Irving

And I'll have to throw in Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce because they are the players that have been with the team forever. You can't imagine them on another team.

Now in 2k, you can throw in much more younger guys because the rookie progression system does not allow for young guys to bust or not reach their full potential. With that in mind, instead of Duncan and those older guys in there I would be much more inclined to throw in Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard because they always turned into a big time player and never bust

Just my two cents

[giordun]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

There are a lot of players I can use as franchise players in 2K13 that I wouldn't call franchise players in real life. Stephen Curry can anchor an offense for sure, and be enough of a difference maker on defense and help out on the boards.

[Phoenixsuns32]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

This all very much depends on what the definition of a franchise player is. It can vary for everybody. My list would be....

1. Kevin Durant

Only reason LeBron isn't here is because he's younger and right now they are playing on a similar level

2. LeBron James

Self Explanatory.

3. Chris Paul

Reason he is this high is because the way he changed the Clippers organization the day he stepped on the court. Even with Blake the Clippers weren't this good.

4. Carmelo Anthony

Can give you 30 plus and is still relatively young.

5. Kyrie Irving

The sky is the limit for him with this team. If he can get a big guy that can score and take pressure off of him for sometime in the game the Cavs will be right back in the playoff picture in the East.

Those are my top 5 other guys that are older that are still franchise guys are Kobe, Pierce, Duncan etc. but to build your franchise in the future I would give it to those guys in that order. If I had to pick a sixth man of this group I would defiantly consider Russell Westbrook.

[Taer]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

so you wouldn't consider d-rose a franchise player because bulls are 4th seed without him? its called having a passionate team and coach who refuses to lose. doc even said himself he wouldn't resort to tanking the season.

IRL I do consider Derrick Rose a Franchise Player - dependent on how well he comes back from his injury. Only time will tell for sure - just as Wade's comeback from injury in 08 affected him.

In 2k13, Rose has no problems playing at the pre-injury levels he had in 2k12 and 2k11 and Rose pushes the Bulls into the finals over the heat and over the Pacers.

That is the difference between Rondo and Rose here.

I really appreciate the last few posters making their lists and joining the conversation.

[JazzMan]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Judging purely off of 2k13, and not actual basketball knowledge, here's my list of True Franchise Players:

LeBron
Kobe
Durant
Melo
Dwight
CP3
Dwyane Wade
Harden
Al Jefferson (easily a 25 and 10 guy on 2k)
Blake Griffin
Dirk
Rondo
Love
Westbrook
D-Will

[Optik]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

so you wouldn't consider d-rose a franchise player because bulls are 4th seed without him? its called having a passionate team and coach who refuses to lose. doc even said himself he wouldn't resort to tanking the season.

Everyone knows that the Bulls are still a good team without Rose (and that is in large part due to Thibs), but he gives them an extra dimension when he's on the floor. Rondo however, doesn't. When he pounds the ball like he has done for the past two years, the Celtics aren't better off for it.

As for Doc, he's an overrated coach, who gives the same excuse when his team loses,"We're just a terrible team right now." He's becoming a self-parody. He shouldn't have given Rondo the keys to the offense, like he has done. It just doesn't work. People got excited by the Celtics' moves because they were bringing in good players and they have a great defender in Bradley along with two future HOF'ers. By just making Pierce and Terry spot up shooters, you take a huge part of their game away, which is being effective at the pick and roll.