2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

[Da_Czar]

Hey, Dont you dudes disappear on me if some of this gets in and the chants for off ball movement startup again. LOL #SimNation

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Hey, Dont you dudes disappear on me if some of this gets in and the chants for off ball movement startup again. LOL #SimNation

No worries Czar.

Spacing is my biggest issue with the game tbh. I just want to be in control. You really have no control over what they do right now, you can't anticipate their movements, it doesn't make sense in terms of baskbetall logic so it has to go. They tryed, I don't blame 2K. I know they're doing stuff to make us happy but it didn't work this time.

I almost have an orgasm when I watch real bball and see that spacing.

Even when I was playing the game very casually back on 2K11, playing drunk with my friend, scoring 55 points with Gerald Walace shouting at my buddy: "Gerald Wallace? It's kinda like Kobe", even then I was looking at control and freedom.

I'am sad everytime they take away control. For every things. I was sad when Nba 2K12 came and you coudn't decide to bankshot. It pure aesthetic but it was fun to pull off. It was great to have the choice to do it with players like Duncan or KG.

PS: Watched again a lot of stuff on your channel. I hope 10 teams 10 days is coming back at some point.

[ffaacc03]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Hey, Dont you dudes disappear on me if some of this gets in and the chants for off ball movement startup again. LOL #SimNation

Just try and be sure that they dont go into extremes ... again.

I mean, we are just looking for offball movement with context, like:
- If you drive, teammates clear
- If you are posting up, the same
- If you lost your dribble or are being doubleteamed, teammates move into better position to receive the pass.
- The offball position of players must be dependent on where the ball handler is and at the same time, on the players tendencies (hotspots) ... i.e: dont want to see Marc Gasol behind the 3pt line whatsoever.
- If a play brokes, I want to either see spacing for ISO or spacing for a pick & roll (or pop) ... maybe relating this to the tendencies of whoever has the ball.

In my humild personal opinion, as I stated on another post, I would love that such things were also related to players Offensive Awareness and the Coaching profile, instead of the current generic implementation ... this way we could further improve the distinction between teams (coaches) good offenses and the bellow average.

When designing plays, spacing is a must and its offball movement of the players should be with some purpose in relation to such play ... players shouldnt cut in front of your path on a P&R, they shouldnt be near you when doing a post up nor iso ... unless they are able to recognize and take advantage of a clogging or over commited D.

We (at least I) dont want "always stagnant players", then again, if only extremes are doable, then I honestly dont really know what ailment would be in our best interest ... stagnant spacing I guess ?

Thus, if you are able to obtaing such improvement on spacing and on a 1-2 man game (ISO and P&R), it would make extremenly more evident the need to correct the D issues vs P&R and expose even more the need to include some of the current (modern ?) defensive schemes, such as ICE and others.

[stillfeelme]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Hey, Dont you dudes disappear on me if some of this gets in and the chants for off ball movement startup again. LOL #SimNation

Haha I will be here. To be truthful off ball movement is a skill but we need some smarter movement

Wade is the best at playing without the ball when to cut how to use the baseline and sneak in for easy baskets. Here are plenty of examples. If they can just use a few.


<table style="width: 48pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="64"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"><object width="420" height="315">


<embed height="315" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/atpZXLfbbss?version=3&hl=en_US" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></object>

Bradley is pretty nice too


<table style="width: 48pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="64"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"><object width="560" height="315">


<embed height="315" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lYvHBjcV8S8?version=3&hl=en_US" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></object>

Compilation of the NBA


<table style="width: 48pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="64"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"><object width="560" height="315">


<embed height="315" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P_nr8-9uNRw?hl=en_US&version=3" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></object></td> </tr></tbody></table></p></td> </tr></tbody></table> </p>
</td> </tr></tbody></table></p>

[Eman5805]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

I can't begin to describe my frustrations when I'd PnR and some AI teammate decides that's a time to frolic under the rim. All it does it bring an extra defender to me and let the D recover when I try to kick out.

Hope that gets a hard fix going forward.

[Da_Czar]

Speaking honestly we may have to attack the spacing first and then look to get cuts etc after that. So i'm focusing my feedback on spacing first. Once that frame is up thopefully they can reintroduce intelligent cuts.

[Da_Czar]

I can't begin to describe my frustrations when I'd PnR and some AI teammate decides that's a time to frolic under the rim. All it does it bring an extra defender to me and let the D recover when I try to kick out.

Hope that gets a hard fix going forward.

I would be SHOCKED if that is still the case in 2k14 at the very least they have to fix that!

[xKINGxSCOTTx]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

While I agree to an extent I think you must use plays and run a system not just pnr ISO and freelance... Running ISOs that come off a pnr as a play puts guys where you want ten and non of the bull

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

There are a lot of scenarios where you can't run a play. If you have 8 seconds on the shotclock you're not gonna run a play for example. Or you want to run a p'n'r with a certain person as the screener and he doesn't have p'n'r plays in his playbook. Also when a play break/ends you have open players who start cutting randomly.

I agree though that running plays helps the spacing a lot. But say you run an isolation play... Once your player is in position the play break and your guys start cutting randomly again.

[xKINGxSCOTTx]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Maybe they could have a create a system feature or something... Basicly picking where players move to if ball handler goes left/right drive or something to help free lance players

[alabamarob]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

I would be SHOCKED if that is still the case in 2k14 at the very least they have to fix that!

What if there were a few basic sets you could pre select as your default pick and roll set up?

Exampe being in an offensive setting menu, you could choose

1. Setting your 2 and 3 men in prospective corners, have your 5 man pick for the 1 and your 4 man on the baseline.

2. Setting all players outside of the 3 point line except the pick setter and the ball handler.

etc.

That way when you call the default pick and roll everyone would automatically run to the same positions.

Or you could have an offensive setting for pick and roll and the options could be 1(cut to rim), 2(stand on baseline), 3(stand on wing), 4)spot up in corner, 5) spot up above break. etc.

I think making it an offensive setting or being able to put players in preset positions would fix most of the issues with spacing as far as the pick and roll go.

[xKINGxSCOTTx]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

What if there were a few basic sets you could pre select as your default pick and roll set up?

Exampe being in an offensive setting menu, you could choose

1. Setting your 2 and 3 men in prospective corners, have your 5 man pick for the 1 and your 4 man on the baseline.

2. Setting all players outside of the 3 point line except the pick setter and the ball handler.

etc.

That way when you call the default pick and roll everyone would automatically run to the same positions.

Or you could have an offensive setting for pick and roll and the options could be 1(cut to rim), 2(stand on baseline), 3(stand on wing), 4)spot up in corner, 5) spot up above break. etc.

I think making it an offensive setting or being able to put players in preset positions would fix most of the issues with spacing as far as the pick and roll go.

Yes I guess that's a better way to put it... I just couldn't get it out like you lol thanks bud

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

What if there were a few basic sets you could pre select as your default pick and roll set up?

Exampe being in an offensive setting menu, you could choose

1. Setting your 2 and 3 men in prospective corners, have your 5 man pick for the 1 and your 4 man on the baseline.

2. Setting all players outside of the 3 point line except the pick setter and the ball handler.

etc.

That way when you call the default pick and roll everyone would automatically run to the same positions.

Or you could have an offensive setting for pick and roll and the options could be 1(cut to rim), 2(stand on baseline), 3(stand on wing), 4)spot up in corner, 5) spot up above break. etc.

I think making it an offensive setting or being able to put players in preset positions would fix most of the issues with spacing as far as the pick and roll go.

Yes, PnR quick play settings are definitely needed, many things are to make this a deep simulation.

Types of sets:

First two are the same (basically) 4 spot picker on first play, while second play has the 5 setting the screen.



1-4 set, 5 comes up to screen.


Here the court is cleared, with the 2, 3 and 4 all on the edges.



**************
Must be able to save to your profile (off and online) so that you can use that particular PnR 'set' as default, so that way when you call for a PnR the players line up in that set, regardless of starting side.

Another thing would be to make it so that players go to spots not necessarily assigned spots for only each player, make the spots able to be used by any player, to help with setting the PnR faster.

Spacing needs to be worked on too, I believe the plays need to be started a tad bit farther out than they are now, also the picker on PnRs needs to come out farther too (when needed).

Pay attention to the spacing in these screens.

[sirjam]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

I read calling space the floor will get less movement aka spotting up more. So if you called that and then ran a play, after you break the play and go into freelance wouldn't that mean that your players won't cut as much?

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Haha I will be here. To be truthful off ball movement is a skill but we need some smarter movement

Wade is the best at playing without the ball when to cut how to use the baseline and sneak in for easy baskets. Here are plenty of examples. If they can just use a few.


<table style="width: 48pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="64"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"><object height="315" width="420">


<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/atpZXLfbbss?version=3&hl=en_US" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="315" width="420"></object>

Bradley is pretty nice too


<table style="width: 48pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="64"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"><object height="315" width="560">


<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lYvHBjcV8S8?version=3&hl=en_US" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="315" width="560"></object>

Compilation of the NBA


<table style="width: 48pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="64"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"><object height="315" width="560">


<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P_nr8-9uNRw?hl=en_US&version=3" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="315" width="560"></object></td> </tr></tbody></table>
</td> </tr></tbody></table>

</td> </tr></tbody></table>

Theses are smart cuts though. Some are set plays some are just smart backdoor cuts. The AI doesn't do any of that. The AI has 0 awareness as to what's going on... It doesn't cut backdoor or into open spaces, tt just joggs around so the guys who plays Myteam doesn't have to run plays.

Btw can we still play offball offense in 2K13? I've never really used that but it could be usefull and you could actually replicate Wade's off ball movement.