Does 2K promote cheese?

[P Shirls]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

I didn't read through this thread because I'm 99% sure of what has been said by both sides. I just want to know from the "off ball is sim" crowd - who has a video of them playing offball against another user in a sim manner? I have yet to witness it - the player playing offball seems to look to take advantage of the slow passing, poor spacing and the ability for a user controlled defender to cover much more space than they could in real life. I would love to see video of offball used in a sim manner - if that video has been made, can you link it for me?

Underrated post....I always say if we all played on ball d we would all have the same disadvantages thus leveling the playing field....if u can't stay in front of your man but he can stay in front of you, well that simply means u are not better than your opponent in most cases and u need to step ur game up...sure u can add variables such as who picked the better team etc. but IMO if u can ball it shouldn't matter who u pick...offball to me is soft unless u tryna thwart an offensive paint cheeser or u playing against another offball defender who is OK with a "stealing in the passing lanes"chess match....thats fine and dandy..knock yourselves out....I just find it humerous when I'd have games where I will literally make it a point to flex my midrange muscle n dudes will come straight out the gate with the 1-3-1 going offball tryna steal my passes.....they can't say I'm cheesing the paint, so can someone else tell me why would one put so much energy into playing offball d against a half court game?

[GradyMac]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

Underrated post....I always say if we all played on ball d we would all have the same disadvantages thus leveling the playing field....if u can't stay in front of your man but he can stay in front of you, well that simply means u are not better than your opponent in most cases and u need to step ur game up...

So I am curious, what is your drive percentage? It seems as though some off ball d complainers are high drive percentage people. Those people are simply mad that they can't drive as well against the CPU.

So often the "off ball d is soft" crowd, is really the "ah man, I can't get to the hole" crowd, "so now I am going to try and make an excuse as to why the way I play is 'real'" crowd.

[P Shirls]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

So I am curious, what is your drive percentage? It seems as though some off ball d complainers are high drive percentage people. Those people are simply mad that they can't drive as well against the CPU.

So often the "off ball d is soft" crowd, is really the "ah man, I can't get to the hole" crowd, "so now I am going to try and make an excuse as to why the way I play is 'real'" crowd.

Im not a high percentage driver.....some games I'll drive more than others depending on what the d gives me but I prefer the midrange game...these cats come straight out the gate playing offball d tho its like the majority of the online community is conditioned to play in that manner...I'll agree the paint abusers somewhat justify this behavior and it runs rampant for sure....but when u see a player such as myself using variety of moves and straight up on ball d why not be a good sport and give the same respect...u have plenty of games to go offball vs offball but its rare I see a true on ball defender and I'm sure u can agree to that.......

I played 2k from day one and in my cyphers round my way you get clowned playing offball first n foremost...cheap offensive play is shunned upon as well but offball gives unfair advantages to the user especially If they mastered it

[deyknow]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

As the title says, do you think 2K promotes cheese by not fixing the issues caused when a new gameplay mechanic is added.

I'm starting to think so, 3's in general, Euro step 3's, Spin dunks, Up and Unders, Alley Oops, Blind full court passes and Overrated CPU defense.. none of them have been fixed. What do you guys think because I'm done defending 2K- NBA2K. Playing smart and having skill doesn't pay because you can lose to people that have no skill whatsoever.

Yea u clearly right I go through the same thing 2k needs to fix these cheesey tactics and stop having people make contested 3 pointers and abusing the finisher the ability to finish threw ant type of contact!

[GradyMac]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

I played 2k from day one and in my cyphers round my way you get clowned playing offball first n foremost...cheap offensive play is shunned upon as well but offball gives unfair advantages to the user especially If they mastered it

I agree there are a lot of off ball defenders. But I also agree that ISOmotion abusers/paint drivers caused the problem.

Also, it doesn't give them an advantage, because you can play off ball too. I am not saying you specifically, but sometimes this argument comes off as, " I am really good at on ball defense. So it makes me angry when others don't play on ball d."

The good on ball defender wants them to play it, because that is where you can gain your advantage.

I say this from personal experience. I am pretty good at on ball defense and used to always clown guys for not playing it, until I realized WHY I wanted them to play it. Because I knew I had a better chance at stopping them with on ball D than they had at stopping me.

My 2 cents.

[P Shirls]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

I agree there are a lot of off ball defenders. But I also agree that ISOmotion abusers/paint drivers caused the problem.

Also, it doesn't give them an advantage, because you can play off ball too. I am not saying you specifically, but sometimes this argument comes off as, " I am really good at on ball defense. So it makes me angry when others don't play on ball d."

The good on ball defender wants them to play it, because that is where you can gain your advantage.

I say this from personal experience. I am pretty good at on ball defense and used to always clown guys for not playing it, until I realized WHY I wanted them to play it. Because I knew I had a better chance at stopping them with on ball D than they had at stopping me.

My 2 cents.

To be honest at this point I feel I do have a better chance at stopping them than they have stopping me cause the majority of ppl simply don't play on ball...its not to say they can't be better at it than I am but if they don't play on ball d then how can I say they can stop me better than I can stop them? I took the time out to master my on ball d so I feel that everybody should take the same challenge but I know that's asking too much.

It all boils down to the fact that its easier to play offball d than to play on ball...I like the challenge, the majority of the online community doesn't...put it this way, one will most likely switch to offball for better results if they feel their on ball d isn't working, but can u honestly say that if that same person played offball first n it didn't work they will switch to on ball d for better results? I'd say highly unlikely.

I guess some ppl care about learning the game and winning with pride and some just want to win....I don't knock those that just want to win but that offball d is weak to me. Ironically I'm in the minority lol

[OkayC]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

how do you guys feel about playing off ball D as a point to try to deny a player the ball. I know for me, I prefer on ball D but have played off ball as an attempt to deny guys like kd and lebron the ball, because when you set the cpu to deny ball, Lets face it, they don't do it. I know trying to manually play deny ball d sounds like a joke in and of itself, but you gotta do try something against the cheesers. And manually playing deny ball D can have a decent effect on the game.

[P Shirls]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

how do you guys feel about playing off ball D as a point to try to deny a player the ball. I know for me, I prefer on ball D but have played off ball as an attempt to deny guys like kd and lebron the ball, because when you set the cpu to deny ball, Lets face it, they don't do it. I know trying to manually play deny ball d sounds like a joke in and of itself, but you gotta do try something against the cheesers. And manually playing deny ball D can have a decent effect on the game.

Personally I play on ball d against anybody cheese or not...the cheesers actually make me a better onball defender.....but to me offball d against a cheeser is fair game to me...but the assumption is that they literally go to Durant and Lebron all game for majority of the shot clock tryna create....if they just dropping buckets on you within the flow or doing it without cheesy tactics to get to the paint then I don't think that necessarily warrants offball d I just think that means u should work on your on ball d...but that's just my opinion I'm sure many others might not agree

[GradyMac]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

how do you guys feel about playing off ball D as a point to try to deny a player the ball. I know for me, I prefer on ball D but have played off ball as an attempt to deny guys like kd and lebron the ball, because when you set the cpu to deny ball, Lets face it, they don't do it. I know trying to manually play deny ball d sounds like a joke in and of itself, but you gotta do try something against the cheesers. And manually playing deny ball D can have a decent effect on the game.

I have no problem with how anyone plays their game. But yes, I have played "manual" deny when guys are shooting every shot with the same player (KD, Lebron, Melo, Etc.)

My theory is to force them out of their comfort zone and make them shoot with someone else. Often they can't.

[setis]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

how do you guys feel about playing off ball D as a point to try to deny a player the ball. I know for me, I prefer on ball D but have played off ball as an attempt to deny guys like kd and lebron the ball, because when you set the cpu to deny ball, Lets face it, they don't do it. I know trying to manually play deny ball d sounds like a joke in and of itself, but you gotta do try something against the cheesers. And manually playing deny ball D can have a decent effect on the game.

It has been said before, it's CHEESE, as long as the AI does not recognize your of ball D and the player you are defending won't do anything to try to get open. Neither your opponent will be able to direct that player to get open.

I understand people playing against people cheesing and driving all the time, playing off ball D. However the fact that off ball D works so good and the fact that you can do 100 isos and dribbles and stuff with all the players without losing the ball, pisses me just as much.

I'm not complaining that off ball D is soft because I drive too much. It´s simply because it's so easy, it's cheap, the AI it's doing the work for you and you hang around trying to pick pass lanes or waiting for the rebound. That's cheap, easy and that's the AI playing the D for you.

[OkayC]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

It has been said before, it's CHEESE, as long as the AI does not recognize your of ball D and the player you are defending won't do anything to try to get open. Neither your opponent will be able to direct that player to get open.

I understand people playing against people cheesing and driving all the time, playing off ball D. However the fact that off ball D works so good and the fact that you can do 100 isos and dribbles and stuff with all the players without losing the ball, pisses me just as much.

I'm not complaining that off ball D is soft because I drive too much. It´s simply because it's so easy, it's cheap, the AI it's doing the work for you and you hang around trying to pick pass lanes or waiting for the rebound. That's cheap, easy and that's the AI playing the D for you.

I'm not talking about playing passing lanes or am I even talking about doing it all the time. Just talking about doing it to deny other players the ball to cut down on cheese. I understandwhat your saying about off bball, but for me as long as its something that's done in the real NBA, its cool by me. If someone's wants to place there trust in a flawed ai, that's on them. You won't catch me playing off ball very often, And it can get cheesy when there trying get turnovers every possessions, but again that's not my reason for doing nor do I ever play passing lanes. Point being is playing off ball realistic sure, is it weak and kinda unfair due to how the game is made, yep. But again my motive for doing it is incredibly different than just to cause To's and be lazy.

[GradyMac]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

...
However the fact that off ball D works so good...
It´s simply because it's so easy, it's cheap...

So, what is your drive percentage?

Also, not sure why you have so much trouble against off ball D. I just adjust my strategy and attack it. Pick and roll, pick and pop, alley oop; CPU is horrible against guarding those.

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

So, what is your drive percentage?

Also, not sure why you have so much trouble against off ball D. I just adjust my strategy and attack it. Pick and roll, pick and pop, alley oop; CPU is horrible against guarding those.

Play a quick match against a off ball player and see what happens.

1. You'll get beat by cheap fast breaks by the user just standing around off ball.
2. You'll get out rebounded, the ai is the best rebounder.
3. Your offense won't run well due to plays breaking.
4. A smart off ball guy will use a zone and cut off every passing lane while the ai covers the corners which will lead to tons of steals, which lead to more fast breaks, which lead to more dunks and alley oops.
5. You won't score very much in the paint because the ai will put you in animations 95% of the time.

[GradyMac]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

Play a quick match against a off ball player and see what happens.

1. You'll get beat by cheap fast breaks by the user just standing around off ball.
2. You'll get out rebounded, the ai is the best rebounder.
3. Your offense won't run well due to plays breaking.
4. A smart off ball guy will use a zone and cut off every passing lane while the ai covers the corners which will lead to tons of steals, which lead to more fast breaks, which lead to more dunks and alley oops.
5. You won't score very much in the paint because the ai will put you in animations 95% of the time.

My online record is 350-200, so believe me, I have played against off ball defenders. If they are quick doubling, you have to make SMART quick passes. I punished someone last night that was doing this.

It isn't unbeatable like you guys are making it out. Pick and pop; pick and roll off ball d to death.

[Xixak]

Re: Does 2K promote cheese?

2K def promotes cheese in online modes (not so much offline except MyCareer).

I play MyTeam and it's basically just people jacking up 3s with all time greats and dunking it. It's not even fun and doesn't feel like a sim game at all. Feels more like NBA Street Homecourt at times.