Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

[The 24th Letter]

Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

I guess we do differ philosophically. I think that settings should play the way they sound like they should play. Normal/default defense settings should have some weaknesses but shouldn't be an auto-lose setting. It shouldn't make the difference between zero interior paint defense and some semblance of one. Manual and Intense-D contests and RS shouldn't be useless. It wasn't last year. There shouldn't be a magical switch in settings that means win by 5 or lose by 20 if you are playing competent sim basketball-- not to mention that I've taken most of your suggestions and it still doesn't work that well.

Will cranking up defensive assist from 50 to 100% make the gigantic difference? If so, well, that's kinda crummy. And I don't see how that should be the fix for slow big-men contests, too many contact layups from guards, useless RS, the lack of penalty for paint iso spam, and slow help D rotations.

Anyway, I know there are those who say that there are always going to be cheesers, but I firmly believe game design (and design oversights) promote one type of gameplay or another. If a design is supposed to promote sim but cheese is greatly rewarded, then the design has failed. I know that sounds a little harsh, but as far as online goes, it feels true.

The problems also exist offline, just not quite as exacerbated, but indicates a root problem, or a root misunderstanding of how to play by me, which I will concede may be a possibility, but I haven't read any tips or advice that seems to indicate that's really the case. If the difference between a good experience and a horrid one is cranking up the defensive assist slider alone, something seems rather wrong.

When Danny Green was killing the Heat from 3...they adjusted their D to compensate for that...no "magical switch" involved...basketball is a game of adjustments...and 2k reflects that...I don't want them to change that at all...that is a part of the fun for me...

I would love the game to come with a "The 24th Letter" custom option where I didn't have to adjust or learn anything, and the game would cater to my expectations ...but that's the reality of video games..some things that worked in 2k13 don't work this year, some things that worked in 2k13 didn't work in 2k12...

Maybe next gen will create the perfect sim experience on and offline...but i'm not holding my breath...

[imdahman]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

yeah, by default your defenders tend to sag off shooters quite a bit. it's pretty much a necessity to go in to defensive settings and set them to "deny ball" or they'll be sagging off and giving up open 3's all game long.

OH, it's Deny Ball to stay up on shooters?! That explains SO MUCH.

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

When Danny Green was killing the Heat from 3...they adjusted their D to compensate for that...no "magical switch" involved...basketball is a game of adjustments...and 2k reflects that...I don't want them to change that at all...that is a part of the fun for me...

I would love the game to come with a "The 24th Letter" custom option where I didn't have to adjust or learn anything, and the game would cater to my expectations ...but that's the reality of video games..some things that worked in 2k13 don't work this year, some things that worked in 2k13 didn't work in 2k12...

Maybe next gen will create the perfect sim experience on and offline...but i'm not holding my breath...

Okay, I'm going to ignore the sarcasm and get to the point you're making.

Are you talking about defensive adjustments as in tight/sag/guarded by? Because for the 2032th time, I AM NOW DOING THAT.

I've tried crowding paint, sagging off paint cheesers, focusing on stars, as well as individual settings and matchups. AGAIN, IT'S NOT HELPING THAT MUCH ONLINE.

The only thing I haven't done is play with the help defense settings too much and I haven't cranked defensive assist to 100%. Is help defense tendencies the key? Is default help defense brain dead? If so, is this acceptable to you? Are you fine with the fact that Kyrie can dribble endlessly in the paint into Iggy's legs while the rest of the team crowds the paint and he can still score regularly? Are you cool with the fact that positional D by bigs doesn't do much, RS is slow and useless, and you must gamble with blocks on guards that will most likely take you out of rebounding position?

Again, you're repeating your point ad naseum and mine is that iso spam cheese shouldn't even be possible with normal NBA defenses though I readily concede you would give up a lot of penetration against elite guards using realistic drives. But that's not what we're talking about.

You're essentially saying something similar to "have issues with side to side euro-three jacking in 2K13? set defense to tight" as some magical balm, when I'm saying that shouldn't even be possible, is a flaw with the game's sim engine online, and doing that doesn't even help that much.

Serious question, can I expect no help from Andrew Bogut and manually switching to him will always be too late and ineffectual without finely tuned help D settings? That still doesn't really solve the super slow blocking response and useless RS, regardless of how hard the "defensive settings!" drum is banged.

So I'm still open to defensive tips. You know, ones that work that I'm not already doing.

[Rensational14]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

@sundown

Coach profiles play a big big role on D too

[stillfeelme]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

@sundown

Coach profiles play a big big role on D too

Yes coach profiles play an important factor as does the actual ratings.


Check your defensive pressure, help defense, and double teams. The default for some teams who are not good at defense is set to "dumb" to create a spread between good and average defenses. Part of this is needed so you can't turn average players into great defenders where the skillset is just not there, just by turning up some settings. Also if your DAWR is average or low don't expect great success

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Spoiler

Okay, I'm going to ignore the sarcasm and get to the point you're making.

Are you talking about defensive adjustments as in tight/sag/guarded by? Because for the 2032th time, I AM NOW DOING THAT.

I've tried crowding paint, sagging off paint cheesers, focusing on stars, as well as individual settings and matchups. AGAIN, IT'S NOT HELPING THAT MUCH ONLINE.

The only thing I haven't done is play with the help defense settings too much and I haven't cranked defensive assist to 100%. Is help defense tendencies the key? Is default help defense brain dead? If so, is this acceptable to you? Are you fine with the fact that Kyrie can dribble endlessly in the paint into Iggy's legs while the rest of the team crowds the paint and he can still score regularly? Are you cool with the fact that positional D by bigs doesn't do much, RS is slow and useless, and you must gamble with blocks on guards that will most likely take you out of rebounding position?

Again, you're repeating your point ad naseum and mine is that iso spam cheese shouldn't even be possible with normal NBA defenses though I readily concede you would give up a lot of penetration against elite guards using realistic drives. But that's not what we're talking about.

You're essentially saying something similar to "have issues with side to side euro-three jacking in 2K13? set defense to tight" as some magical balm, when I'm saying that shouldn't even be possible, is a flaw with the game's sim engine online, and doing that doesn't even help that much.

Serious question, can I expect no help from Andrew Bogut and manually switching to him will always be too late and ineffectual without finely tuned help D settings? That still doesn't really solve the super slow blocking response and useless RS, regardless of how hard the "defensive settings!" drum is banged.

So I'm still open to defensive tips. You know, ones that work that I'm not already doing.

I actually wasn't trying to be sarcastic, but I can see where you got that So let's just get to the bottom of it all...this is YOUR thread, what are YOU trying to accomplish?

You've pretty much dismissed every tip you received, or said that it was not effective....even from the time you had just played 2 games online...so I will stop providing any suggestions...no problem.

So I am guessing this post is basically just to disagree that the fact that some feel the game is balanced online. That is perfectly fine...but what you first need to realize is that not everyone is having your experience...check the "crave to casuals" thread...YOUR experience online is not 2k14 baseline experience.

So do you just want users to concede that there are flaws with the game? Well as far as I go: Sure there are! Many! Am I cool with all those flaws? No, of course not! I would like them fixed...As far as your post goes, the only thing we are both have issues with is the RS stick being unresponsive...which I just found out about today since I don't use it...it is definitely laggy...I am just not having the trouble you are having with rotations and help D...I am also not having any issues blocking shots..

So I mean, there you have it...the game is flawed online...I 100% agree with you...we just don't agree on how flawed...at the end of the day all we can do is both submit our feedback and see who the devs agree with...

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Yes coach profiles play an important factor as does the actual ratings.


Check your defensive pressure, help defense, and double teams. The default for some teams who are not good at defense is set to "dumb" to create a spread between good and average defenses. Part of this is needed so you can't turn average players into great defenders where the skillset is just not there, just by turning up some settings. Also if your DAWR is average or low don't expect great success

I play as the Warriors who have a premier lockdown perimeter defender in Iggy and a premier defensive anchor/eraser in Bogut. Thompson should be solid but is underrated with on-ball. I never complain when David Lee gets schooled. I'm also not dumb enough to try to guard elite PGs with Steph, though he actually fares so-so in real life.

What do you recommend for coaching adjustments?

[FluffyTonka]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

I love the D in this game.

You have to anticipate (guess left/ right when playing on ball man-2-man), sometimes you have to gamble (block a passing lane and RS + square and steal) and you have to make adjustments (sag off good dribblers, wear good shooters like a glove).

Deny ball setting, use it for dominant bigs to block off the paint. Don't use it for perimeter players, because if you lose the deny, and they get the ball, you're outta position and no help in the world will get there in time.

Another thing, use the soft hedge, not the hard hedge. Soft hedge towards their best player, or whoever's hot (out of a timeout, I use this) ... Soft hedge will always have the help D one step closer to that player, it will also shade him into the help D making it easier to neutralize him.

The thing I love about the D is ... there are guys in the NBA that cannot be guarded one on one. They just can't. This game reflects that. Some players will just get theres ... but if you can stop their support, you can win and will win games.

I love the D. Its the truest to life representation of playing real basketball I've ever seen. With a shot knee, I don't get to play to much irl anymore ... so this game makes my pants happy. You have to practice, you have to work on D and it doesn't come easily. The way it should be. It's risk & reward, but you can still focus and lockdown on possessions when you need to.

I'm over games being made for all the teenagers that wanna pick the game up and dominate from their first tip off.

Good things happen in 2K14 if you're a little patient, learn the new controls and practice.

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

I actually wasn't trying to be sarcastic, but I can see where you got that So let's just get to the bottom of it all...this is YOUR thread, what are YOU trying to accomplish?

You've pretty much dismissed every tip you received, or said that it was not effective....even from the time you had just played 2 games online...so I will stop providing any suggestions...no problem.

It is what it is. Those settings aren't helping against cheesers much, so I must be missing something. Maybe coaching profiles. Maybe help-D settings. They're helpful offline, which I've played a ton, but my feelings about how interior D plays with shot blockers, settings or not, has been the same after many hours offline. Online just exacerbates everything.

So I am guessing this post is basically just to disagree that the fact that some feel the game is balanced online. That is perfectly fine...but what you first need to realize is that not everyone is having your experience...check the "crave to casuals" thread...YOUR experience online is not 2k14 baseline experience.

It's partly that, and partly to hope I'm just doing something wrong and someone might drop indepth knowledge. Maybe I need to understand help D better? Maybe I have timing issues?

So do you just want users to concede that there are flaws with the game? Well as far as I go: Sure there are! Many! Am I cool with all those flaws? No, of course not! I would like them fixed...As far as your post goes, the only thing we are both have issues with is the RS stick being unresponsive...which I just found out about today since I don't use it...it is definitely laggy...I am just not having the trouble you are having with rotations and help D...I am also not having any issues blocking shots..

I mainly have problems blocking smalls and trying to change their shot. Big-on-big D is quite decent. I don't know if it's because Bogut is slow and shot blocking guards is too dependent on athleticism this year. This doesn't affect his shot blocking in real life, but he regularly gets out-blocked by David Lee in game.

David Fricking T-rex Arms 0.7 Blocks It's Not My Thing Lee.

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

I love the D in this game.

You have to anticipate (guess left/ right when playing on ball man-2-man), sometimes you have to gamble (block a passing lane and RS + square and steal) and you have to make adjustments (sag off good dribblers, wear good shooters like a glove).

Deny ball setting, use it for dominant bigs to block off the paint. Don't use it for perimeter players, because if you lose the deny, and they get the ball, you're outta position and no help in the world will get there in time.

Another thing, use the soft hedge, not the hard hedge. Soft hedge towards their best player, or whoever's hot (out of a timeout, I use this) ... Soft hedge will always have the help D one step closer to that player, it will also shade him into the help D making it easier to neutralize him.

The thing I love about the D is ... there are guys in the NBA that cannot be guarded one on one. They just can't. This game reflects that. Some players will just get theres ... but if you can stop their support, you can win and will win games.

I love the D. Its the truest to life representation of playing real basketball I've ever seen. With a shot knee, I don't get to play to much irl anymore ... so this game makes my pants happy. You have to practice, you have to work on D and it doesn't come easily. The way it should be. It's risk & reward, but you can still focus and lockdown on possessions when you need to.

I'm over games being made for all the teenagers that wanna pick the game up and dominate from their first tip off.

Good things happen in 2K14 if you're a little patient, learn the new controls and practice.

Now I don't know how allowing iso paint cheesing possession after possession while the one of the best perimeter D guys is on you is "the truest real-life representation of D ever" but I appreciate the tips, especially about soft hedge and how it affects help D.

[FluffyTonka]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Now I don't know how allowing iso paint cheesing possession after possession while the one of the best perimeter D guys is on you is "the truest real-life representation of D ever" but I appreciate the tips, especially about soft hedge and how it affects help D.

It must be user error ... I'm just not seeing anything being abused on me.

Maybe try L1 and call the double team over if you can't stay in front of your guy?

I mostly play as the jazz and I can keep Burke in front of opposing PG's like Rose and Westbrook. Not 100% of the time, but enough to win games, nd especially on critical possessions, which imo is 100% realistic.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Now I don't know how allowing iso paint cheesing possession after possession while the one of the best perimeter D guys is on you is "the truest real-life representation of D ever" but I appreciate the tips, especially about soft hedge and how it affects help D.

Trying "feathering" the left stick when you're playing positional defense. In NBA 2K11 and possibly NBA 2K14, I would allow the offense to bump my defender then I will kinda "ride out" the contact animation, then I would feather the the LS to position myself between the ball handler and rim. Depending on the stupidity of my opponent and if keeps trying to bully his way to the rim, I would attempt a steal during the riding animation.

This was hard as hell in NBA 2K13, because you could get bumped backwards by the ballhandler some distance. My philosophy is to stay between you and the basket with positional defense and force you to take a bad shot due to the shot clock. I'm not trying to steal or block on every possession. I just want you to take as many bad, contested shots as possible. It sucked in NBA 2K13, because it felt like contested shots went in at too high of a rate.

[imdahman]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Actually yeah.. it might be an issue wherein you have heavy hands and over compensate when being driven on. I have this issue too and there are times I go too far to one side simply because I'm jamming the stick.

When you're holding down the intensive D trigger, that should be used when your opponent is stationary, you're trying to shade him to one side, or if he's moving slowly. When he explodes out of his stance make sure you get the angle! Don't just slide over to the left/right... you want to angle back and to whatever side they're going and get to the spot first.

If you've gotten beat from that first step, LET GO of intense D, just use the stick to get to the spot, then use turbo if you've completely lost him - and again, get to the spot in front of him.

Using Intense D then hitting the turbo will make you jump to a spot which can be helpful if you guess right, otherwise you will have guessed the wrong way and be way out of position. Use it sparingly and only if that initial step left you way behind your opponent. You almost never want to be holding Intense D & Turbo together for extended periods of time.

Remember to feather the stick when you can, and realize that not every move needs to be compensated... if he's dribbling in place or just nudging one way or another, you don't need to follow him - as long as you've got a good position and he isn't too far off, you can usually hold your ground and be alright. But feathering is what you wanna get down.

[WizardJay]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Now I don't know how allowing iso paint cheesing possession after possession while the one of the best perimeter D guys is on you is "the truest real-life representation of D ever" but I appreciate the tips, especially about soft hedge and how it affects help D.

Its starting to get frustrating seeing everyone giving you tips and you throwing it back in their faces.

[xMAN OF 5TEELx]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Sundown, honestly...it sounds like you just can't control your players with the stick very well...with my play style, I set player defensive settings to play tight on and off ball on any a rated or higher perimeter player and go over screens on best 3pt shooter...profile settings that make biggest difference is help d which I set VERY low...and controller options I set to intense d and spider to 0 as default and above seems to get u out of position when switching players...now I like to play center on d a lot to make my own help d plus help rebound...I switch if someone likes to pick and pop constantly...for the first time since 2k11 I feel having great basketball iq can actually help this year instead of great button smashing iq,lol...my only gripe this year are steals online, which I've pretty much remedied,just annoying, and shot consistancy...defense reminds me a lot of 11...plus how satisfying are the blocks this year...I can hear stacy king saying, WELCOME TO THE BLOCK PARTY!!!