RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

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  • SmartForce
    MVP
    • Mar 2015
    • 1845

    #1

    RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

    Hey guys,

    Last week NWGameDad commented that the strategy of winning the "double event" quarters (which currently give randomly +7-9 point differential) was a bug and unintended. I was hoping to walk through the way the event works, and ask for your design thoughts on things, and make some suggestions based upon what I think NWGameDad was saying ... although it's possible I misunderstood.

    My first guess is that the "double" events were simply meant to be double the 1v1 events, so a +4 point differential instead of +2. As it stands now, if you get +7 as your point differential, and you win only the "double" events, you have a +28 differential for that, and losing the other 12 "event" matchups at -2 point differential each adds up to -24 for a net win of +4 points.

    That strategy allows someone with 10 Star Pros to complete the event (but unless they want to sacrifice sleep, they have to buy hot streaks early on or buy game nights, as the final card can only be conquered in +2 via this strategy, unless the Star Pros you have are MVP/HoF/RC level Star Pros).

    NWGameDad said that this is a bug and unintended, and a fix would be coming. The only way to fix this that I can think of is to adjust the point differentials. Making the 1v1 events worth +/- 3 points would be really swingy, so I expect the more cautious and easier to control approach is to adjust the point differential of the "double" events. The following scenarios all result in the same change in strategy:

    Doubles become +6 = +24 total differential and a -24 total differential for losing the rest of the matchups. So far RttC ties count as wins, so this doesn't change anything.

    Doubles become +5 or +4 = +16-20 compared to -24 for losing the rest of the matchups results in a -4 to -8 differential to make up.

    If the doubles become +5, then making up -4 requires winning 2 of the 12 other events. In order to guarantee doing this, the player needs to stack three more Star Pros into a position to ensure at least 2 of them show up.

    If they become +4, then making up the -8 differential requires winning 3 of the 12 remaining events to get a 2 point win. This will require stacking a third position with 4 Star Pros to ensure that at least 3 are drawn into the match.

    Now, here's the problem. As the event was originally implemented it took ten Star Pros to "game" it and end up with a card that wouldn't be anything more than a bench warmer for seasons, wouldn't make a QG/RC lineup, and thus was not really an upgrade reward at all, unless the person can somehow finish in the top-25 in the following RC, which is nearly impossible with the group of "teams" that dominate most of those spots.

    So, even as the event currently stands, the people who can get the best card end up with a reward which by definition cannot help them. Changing the event to require 3-4 more Pro Star cards to complete is just going to raise the bar even higher, and make it even less likely that the reward will actually help anyone who can get it (excepting, of course, those people who buy game nights and lose their way to the card ... which for them is a good deal because it costs way less credits than an HoF pack or enough PnP packs to get a Star level PnP reward statistically).

    So the first issue, in condensed phrasing:

    1.) As originally implemented, the RttC event already requires 10 Star Pros to complete, and also requires hot streaks or lack of sleep. For those without 10 star pros, it requires purchasing game nights to get the cards via 1 loss at a time.

    2.) Raising the bar even higher will simply result in the reward being even less meaningful or useful to the players who can obtain it short of loss flopping to it.


    Solutions:

    1.) Given the already high bar it takes to "game" the event, I am not sure a fix of the "bug" is really necessary. Ten Star Pros is a pretty high bar and the final reward can only be made pro by 25 people or by spending a very significant amount of money on packs at 10,000 credits a pop (for HoF duping with a 1 in 65 chance to dupe per 10k credits) or 2,500 credits per pack (with a very low chance for star, and then a low chance to get the proper star).

    Suggestions: Leave the RttC as it is, as it's already a situation where someone has to pay you significant money to make the rewards an upgarade. Additionally, consider expanding the RC dupe card to a larger number of people, perhaps the top 100?

    Alternatively, in order to make the final reward actually useful to players who can obtain it, consider adding a duplicate to the end of the event (one more card) which would require a higher point total than getting the first one, which would by necessity require that anyone who wants to get the dupe is going to have to buy game nights.

    While a few people might spend a lot of money trying to dupe via packs, the vast majority of us aren't willing to spend that kind of money trying to dupe a card. I do know that I would buy the extra game nights (at 100 credits per 5 and assuming something like 500-600 points to get the dupe card, you would get $50-$200 from people trying to dupe the reward, varying by whether they could win +2 or have to lose their way to it).

    This suggestion would be a virtually guaranteed boost in revenue for you guys, and it would make it so that the final reward card(s) for RttC would actually have a spot to get played in the decks of people who are able to actually obtain them.


    Anyone else who would like is free to offer other suggestions, but this is the best one I could think of that ensures CD can increase revenue while at the same time actually making the reward something useful to people who can obtain it.
    Last edited by SmartForce; 04-14-2015, 01:40 PM.
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  • JHurls23
    Rookie
    • Apr 2015
    • 89

    #2
    Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

    Definitely a well thought out and written post. Getting the legendary card for me last time was a grind at +2 games and essentially winning the double point match ups. What it comes down to is incentivizing spending money and penalizing those who don't or haven't. Which from a business standpoint you can't blame 2K, but from the players' perspective is extremely frustrating


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    • SmartForce
      MVP
      • Mar 2015
      • 1845

      #3
      Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

      Originally posted by JHurls23
      Definitely a well thought out and written post. Getting the legendary card for me last time was a grind at +2 games and essentially winning the double point match ups. What it comes down to is incentivizing spending money and penalizing those who don't or haven't. Which from a business standpoint you can't blame 2K, but from the players' perspective is extremely frustrating
      That's why I'm trying to suggest a way they can basically guarantee themselves that people will spend money on hot streaks and/or game nights. As it stands now, people who can earn the final reward cannot really benefit from it unless they spend a gigantic amount of money, so very few people will.

      I believe that many more people will be willing to pay if they implement what I'm suggesting. I also believe that they would see a considerable increase in revenue because a lot of us would be willing to pay the premium to dupe the card since it would be reliable instead of very low chance. More people paying less average money for a reliable dupe should result in more revenue than just the few people who drop a huge amount of money to dupe.
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      • Dextro
        MVP
        • Feb 2015
        • 1983

        #4
        Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

        I wrote exactly the same, make it possible that even lower tier players are able to get higher rewards if they spent some dollars into game nights or hot streaks (compare it to WWE)


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        • SmartForce
          MVP
          • Mar 2015
          • 1845

          #5
          Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

          Originally posted by Dextro
          I wrote exactly the same, make it possible that even lower tier players are able to get higher rewards if they spent some dollars into game nights or hot streaks (compare it to WWE)


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          If they were to implement my suggestion, then basically everyone who can get the first HoF/PnP card and spends the time is gonna spend that extra $50-$200 to make it a star ... because the alternative is to drop thousands to try and get equivalent cards.

          I firmly believe that the vast majority of players aren't willing to pay the current cost to get those pro cards ... but if they implemented what I'm suggesting, that extra $50-$200 per player they would get from a substantial group of people who otherwise wouldn't be giving them money should more than offset what the few people who are willing to drop hundreds to thousands of dollars to dupe the card.
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          • vauux
            Banned
            • Jan 2015
            • 177

            #6
            Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

            wwe supercard does have the dupe final reward available for a few more points than the single. Never understood why this game doesn't do that as well as it keeps the events separate and allows more players to get the final reward, oh maybe that's it..

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            • SmartForce
              MVP
              • Mar 2015
              • 1845

              #7
              Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

              Originally posted by vauux
              wwe supercard does have the dupe final reward available for a few more points than the single. Never understood why this game doesn't do that as well as it keeps the events separate and allows more players to get the final reward, oh maybe that's it..
              It's the same company so now it really doesn't make sense. If they already do that in the other app, why not do it here?
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              • Dextro
                MVP
                • Feb 2015
                • 1983

                #8
                Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                As far as I understood my German friends, you only have to drop something between 5 and 15 Euro per Event and can get the final reward or be pretty close.
                If I compare this to the prices over here, my guess is, that MyTeam is way more expensive than the WWE app. But maybe somebody here can give us some more clarity about this


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                • djeternal2
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2014
                  • 246

                  #9
                  Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                  Originally posted by SmartForce
                  It's the same company so now it really doesn't make sense. If they already do that in the other app, why not do it here?
                  Probably because supercard does not have an AH. I tried it for a little bit this past weekend and didn't see an AH so they almost have to allow for a way to get a dupe in the event because they can't say go to the AH to get one. If I'm wrong and missed the AH in supercard my apologies.
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                  • SmartForce
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2015
                    • 1845

                    #10
                    Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                    Originally posted by djeternal2
                    Probably because supercard does not have an AH. I tried it for a little bit this past weekend and didn't see an AH so they almost have to allow for a way to get a dupe in the event because they can't say go to the AH to get one. If I'm wrong and missed the AH in supercard my apologies.
                    AH is irrelevant since Hall of Fame and Proven and Potential cards can't be sold on the AH, and the RttC final rewards are either HoF or PnP.
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                    • djeternal2
                      Rookie
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 246

                      #11
                      Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                      Originally posted by SmartForce
                      AH is irrelevant since Hall of Fame and Proven and Potential cards can't be sold on the AH, and the RttC final rewards are either HoF or PnP.
                      Ok I didn't know that. Just ignore the noob as I don't know what I'm talking about. lol
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                      • Melcho
                        Pro
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 501

                        #12
                        Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                        Just pointing out i was able to +5 kobe on the last RttC with 12 star pros (or maybe 11, cant remember now)


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                        • SmartForce
                          MVP
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 1845

                          #13
                          Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                          Originally posted by Melcho
                          Just pointing out i was able to +5 kobe on the last RttC with 12 star pros (or maybe 11, cant remember now)
                          Nice, I didn't realize the final card could be +5 with the strat. Even so, the suggestion to add a 2nd copy of the card for like double the points should net them a huge boost in revenue. Any of us who spend on the game would surely spend to Pro the card since getting top-25 in RC is almost impossible and getting it Pro via packs is such a low probability.

                          That would also ensure that anyone who CAN complete the event ends up with a card that takes a place in his lineup, and has the added benefit of being a revenue boost for CD.

                          It's a win-win I think.
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                          • nzjase
                            Pro
                            • Feb 2015
                            • 733

                            #14
                            Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                            I still don't see why they even have to change it.

                            As SF says the barrier to using the strat for hte final card is high and hte bulk of us have to spend credits to get game nights to even TRY to get the final card.

                            A change to make this strat null and void just means I will stop at the star card and no bother trying to +2 my way to the PnP or HoF card
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                            • drdotwho
                              Pro
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 778

                              #15
                              Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

                              Originally posted by vauux
                              wwe supercard does have the dupe final reward available for a few more points than the single. Never understood why this game doesn't do that as well as it keeps the events separate and allows more players to get the final reward, oh maybe that's it..
                              when you said "a few more points than the single" -- how long did the event last? less or more than 4 days? just curious
                              Last edited by drdotwho; 04-14-2015, 08:23 PM.
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