Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

[eDotd]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I haven't seen my guys being taken out of place at all. Not saying it doesn't happen, or maybe I haven't been looking hard enough. I will look out for this in the future.

WT it would definitely be nice if you could grab some footage of what you're referring to. Also, is the problem mainly when you switch to zone D? Or are you seeing it when you man up as well?

[WTF]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Moreso when I'm playing 2-3 zone I believe. When I'm manning up, and the opposing team goes on a run, I switch up my D. I've seen it with the 2-3 no doubt, a few times. Maybe once or twice with 3-2 and 1-3-1. It doesn't happen often, but when it does happen, it's frustrating.

Next time it happens, I'll grab a video of it. I may actually have one. I'm away from the 360 at work at the moment, but I'll check tomorrow evening when I get off.

[mrprice33]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

might be a problem with the zone logic. seems no bball game can get this right.

[WTF]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

And it may be. But when man to man isn't working to stop a run, I've got to switch to something. Granted, I still came back to win the next few games that I've played, with only one of them having a similar occurrence. It just doesn't have much "logic" to have a baseline defender to take off running towards half court, to guard someone who isn't a threat.

[eDotd]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

That may be why I haven't run into it, I always man up. I'm going to start playing some zone to see if I can see what you're talking about.

[jsquigg]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

@ WTF, I'm not necessarily saying the AI is too tough for you, but I haven't had my AI defense being taken out of position. There are two ways, however, to better control what they do. You can use the defensive match-up settings to control how they rotate and who they rotate off of or you can experiment with playing defense off ball as well as using the double team button in appropriate situations. I'm not trying to pass judgment on anyone's game, but I'm not seeing some of the things others have been frustrated by. I don't play zone BTW, so I can't speak to that.
What I have seen is that the CPU on the higher levels tries to get the ball to their top players in high volume areas. This varies from team to team obviously. I struggled with defense at first, but the beauty of it is that if you can force the opposing players into uncomfortable situations you can have a lot of success defensively. However, just like in real basketball, it's almost impossible to keep the CPU from putting together quality possessions and just like in real basketball superstar players make plays.
You will struggle to win if you don't utilize all the tools you have at both ends of the floor if you play at all-star or superstar. I have seen odd plays happen individually (as I mentioned in the recap of my game), but I haven't seen anything to make me think the CPU has more tools than I do or that some magical logic kicks in to help the CPU succeed. I respect when people discover issues with a game, but when somebody claims "comeback" logic or something similar, I think it reflects more on the user than the game. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just my opinion.

[goh]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Ran 'em straight up out. Documented the game,including the non-calls for potential points missed and anything that might've suspciously started a Spurs run (one that they never really got) and you can tell I quit trying in the 2nd half,only the 2nd blow out I've seen...

Off the opening tip Billups hits the fadeaway 3 1/1

Down 5-2 Ginobili drives lane,gets call on what looked to be a clean block by Martin,hits both.

Billups fadeaway 3 misses 1/2
Nene gets the board,back out to Billups,drives lane,contact on Duncan,NO foul,shot goes *-1 point*

Lay up by Melo,full contact by Duncan,shot goes but no call again *-2 points* 11-4

Same as previous *-3 points* 15-6

Billups fade 3 misses 1/3

Spurs scoreless in over 2 minutes as of 6:35

Spurs TO called at 21-6 with 6:18 to go in Q1
Sub in Birdman,Allen & Afflalo,Chauncey and Melo stay.
Spurs make NO subs.

Announcers note 12-0 run for the Nuggets,Kerr complains the Spurs not taking a TO

Nuggets TO called at 4:52
Lawson takes over for Billups,JR Smith back in taking over at SF for Melo
Spurs sub in McDyess for Bonner

Parker drives,gets foul,I pressed B to try and get the charge but it went into the block
Lawson drives,no call,gets ball stolen,mysterious foul called on Lawson,didn't even say what for? 27-11 Nuggets

Bonner back in at 3:15 following a Spurs out of bounds turn over

Allen decides to cover Parker even when I had him,Bonner gets open shot 27-13

18-7 Nuggets run noted by announcers at 2:36

Parker gets foul from drive,McDyess back in for Bonner and Blair in for Duncan at 1:32
Allen,Smith,Lawson,Birdman out,Billups,Melo,KMart & Nene back in

23-9 run noted,Kerr mad at the Spurs for not calling a TO again

Billups drives,shot goes,no foul called *-4 points*

Billups fade 3 misses 1/4,this must be an online only glitch,well enough of that

Melo gets to the line,Duncan back in,Manu finally out and Mason in with 1.6 seconds left in the 1st

1st Quater
38-19 Nuggets

Nuggets 61.5%,Spurs 28%
From 3: 2/6,0/2
FTs: 4/4,5/5
REB: 15,5
AST: 9,1
BLK: 2,5
STL: 0,2
TO: 3,1
Fouls: 4,2
OREB: 3,2
DREB: 12,3
Fast Break: 0,0
2nd: 6,2

Nuggets:
Melo 18 pts,1 reb,1 blk 8/9
Billups: 7 pts,7 ast 3/7

Spurs:
Parker: 9 pts,2 reb,3/7
Jefferson: 2 pts,3 blk 1/3

Afflalo & Martin out,Kleiza & Petro in
Mason stays,Duncan back in

It appears the Spurs have switched to the full court press to start the 2nd

Parker with an alley oop lay up to Bonner @ 10:05 45-25

Duncan with the contact on Petro,still no call and the lay up went *-5 points*

Foul on Nene
KMart,Smith and Birdman in,Nene,Petro & Kleiza out
Manu in,Mason out
Bonner hits both

Parker's steal attempt goes out of bounds
Bonner out,McDyess in

Nuggets TO at 6:19
Melo out,Afflalo in,swtich JR to SF,Billups out,Lawson in
Duncan out,Blair in

Afflalo to the line
Blair out,Duncan back in at 6:08

Birdman fouls Duncan,McDyess out,Bonner in at 5:58

10-0 run for the Nuggets noted at 5:23 (Duncan missed his FTs)

Spurs scoreless in 2:01 at 5:00
Foul on Kmart
Birdman out,Allen in

12-2 run by Nuggets at 4:32
Spurs TO

JR Smith squashed between Manu and Jefferson,no call again,shot went *-6 points*

Foul on Duncan,Bonner in,McDyess out

JR to the hoop,shot made with contact/poked in the eye,no call *-7 points*

Timmy D called for the Offensive foul

JR to the hoop again,Manu contact,no call but shot made *-8 points*

Allen goes down under the rim,no call,shot still made *-9 points*

Nuggets TO at 1:38
Lawson,Smith,Kmart out,Billups,Melo and Nene in

22-10 Nuggets run noted,1:23

Melo gets contact on Duncan,shot made,no call *-10 points*

Afflalo oddly out of bounds on a fast break attempt with 1.3 left

Halftime
83-48 Nuggets

Nuggets 72.3% Spurs 39.1%
From 3: 6/11 54.5%,1/6 16.7%
FTs: 9/9,11/13
REB: 24,8
AST: 22,8
BLK: 3,5
STL: 0,4
TO: 6,4
Fouls: 8,6
OREB: 3,2
DREB: 21,6
Fast Break: 2,0
2nd: 6,2
Bench stats were noted: 17,2

Nuggets
Melo: 28 pts,2 reb,13/15
Billups: 16 pts,13 ast 6/10
JR: 20 pts 8/12
Afflalo: 10 pts,3/5,4/4 at the line

Melo & Billups tied for the minutes lead with 16

Spurs
Parker: 19 pts,3 ast 6/15,7/7 at the line
Bonner: 11 pts,4/7,2/2 at the line

Jefferson and Parker have played the entire 24 minutes to this point with Dunan having 22 minutes himself.

Allen & Afflalo out,KMart & JR back in
No changes for the Spurs,starters are in

Melo misses a dunk,KMart misses THREE under the basket lay ups in a row

Stever Kerr sounds pretty mad at the Spurs

Another crappy out of bounds thing for me
McDyess in,Bonner out

Nuggets TO at 4:39
Smith,Billups,KMart & Nene out,Afflalo,Lawson,Allen & Birdman in

Afflalo contact by Mcdyess,shot missed,no call *-13 points*

Melo to the line at 1:36 Mason in,Manu out

MVP chant for Melo

End of 3rd

105-72 Nuggets

Nuggets 58.1% Spurs 41.7%
From 3: 8/17 47.1%,1/8 12.5%
FTs: 11/11,11/13
REB: 38,20
AST: 28,13
BLK: 5,8
STL: 1,5
TO: 11,8
Fouls: 8,7
OREB: 6,3
DREB: 32,17
Fast Break: 6,0
2nd: 8,4

Nuggets:
Melo 40 pts,2 reb,2 ast,2 blk 18/24
Billups 16 pts,15 asts

Spurs:
Parker 23 pts,7 ast
Bonner 17 pts,5 reb

Parker & Jefferson have still played the full game

Allen,Melo,Lawson out,KMart,Smith,Billups in
McDyess,Mason out,Bonner,Manu in

Bonner's shot goes out,McDyess comes back in at 10:33 but for Jefferson finally,Bonner takes over at SF

Offensive foul on JR,McDyess out,Jefferson back at 9:17

Jefferson's steal attempt goes out,Blair in for Jefferson at 7:57

JR Smith reversed dunked on Bonner's head as if this wasn't bad enough already

Fans mad,Kerr mad,think the mascot is mad too

Foul on Birdman at 6:02,Jefferson back
Full change for me

Billups gets performer of the game with 22 pts and 19 ast at the moment
Out of bounds ball,Mason in for Manu

Duncan gets 3rd foul,Blair comes in at 5:43

Foul on McDyess at 2:46,Manu and Duncan come in

2:42 TO called by Spurs
Billups in,Lawson out

138-109 final

Parker played the entire game,Duncan was in for 40 and 42 for Jefferson.

Overall

Nuggets 55.9% (57/102) Spurs 46.9% (46/98)
From 3: 11/25 44%,4/13 30.8%
FTs: 13/14,13/15
REB: 49,29
AST: 38,21
BLK: 6,11
STL: 2,7
TO: 17,10
Fouls: 10,10
OREB: 9,4
DREB: 40,25
Fast Break: 8,6
2nd: 10,6

Nuggets
Melo 53 pts,3 reb,2 ast,2 blk 23/34 67%,1/2 from 3 50% 6/7 FT 85%
Billups 22 pts,4 reb,21 ast 8/18,44%,6/15 from 3 40%
JR 33 pts,3 reb,2 ast 14/23 60%,3/5 from 3 60%,2/2 FT

Spurs
Parker 33 pts,9 ast 13/29 44%,0/4 from 3,7/7 FT
Bonner 30 pts,5 reb,3 blk,12/17 70%,4/5 from 3,80%
Duncan 18 pts,8 reb,3 blk,9/21 42%

Quater by quater breakdown

1st
38-19 Nuggets
Nuggets 61.5% (16/26),Spurs 28% (7/25)
From 3: 2/6,0/2
FTs: 4/4,5/5
REB: 15,5
AST: 9,1
BLK: 2,5
STL: 0,2
TO: 3,1
Fouls: 4,2
OREB: 3,2
DREB: 12,3
Fast Break: 0,0
2nd: 6,2

2nd
45-29 Nuggets
Nuggets 85.7% (18/21),Spurs 52.4% (11/21)
From 3: 4/5,1/4
FTs: 5/5,6/8
REB: 9,3
AST: 13,7
BLK: 1,0
STL: 0,2
TO: 3,3
Fouls: 4,4
OREB: 0,0
DREB: 9,3
Fast Break: 2,0
2nd: 0,0

3rd
24-22 Spurs
Nuggets 33.3% (9/27),Spurs 46.2% (12/26)
From 3: 2/6,0/2
FTs: 2/2,0/0
REB: 14,12
AST: 6,5
BLK: 2,3
STL: 1,1
TO: 5,4
Fouls: 0,1
OREB: 3,1
DREB: 11,11
Fast Break: 4,0
2nd: 2,2

4th
37-33 Spurs
Nuggets 50% (14/28),Spurs 61.5% (16/26)
From 3: 3/8,3/5
FTs: 2/3,2/2
REB: 11,9
AST: 10,8
BLK: 1,3
STL: 1,2
TO: 6,2
Fouls: 2,3
OREB: 3,1
DREB: 8,8
Fast Break: 2,0
2nd: 2,2

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

What I'm interested in, is seeing how people are defending.


I'm not seeing the Matt Bonner phenomenon at all. I never play off ball defense though. I'm always guarding on the ball.

In 3 games, Matt Bonner hasnt scored more then 7 points, and hasnt shot over 40%. Ive forced Bonner to pick up his dribble, or throw up slop, or turn the ball over. I'm just conditioned to play on the ball D..thats just the way I have always rolled in B-Ball games.

I think my next game, I'll play with an off ball defender exclusively, and maybe I'll see something different.

[bls]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

What I'm interested in, is seeing how people are defending.


I'm not seeing the Matt Bonner phenomenon at all. I never play off ball defense though. I'm always guarding on the ball.

In 3 games, Matt Bonner hasnt scored more then 7 points, and hasnt shot over 40%. Ive forced Bonner to pick up his dribble, or throw up slop, or turn the ball over. I'm just conditioned to play on the ball D..thats just the way I have always rolled in B-Ball games.

I think my next game, I'll play with an off ball defender exclusively, and maybe I'll see something different.

Different play styles is really what it comes down to. I'm pretty sure most don't even bother to touch defense settings either.

[Chairman7w]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I've played twice so far and Bonner has had good games against me both times.

That's no indictment of anything, just "good" games. I think he had 14 pts and 10pts. More suspect was the timing of his excellent play, but I don't know if I can "blame" the game for it. It just happened.

His average last year was 8pts/5rebs I think, so that's not so crazy.

It hasn't been a problem with me.

Again, I think I enjoy this game more when I just go play it. Once I start digging in too deep, I find my enjoyment decreasing.

[jsquigg]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

In my game Bonner was a non-factor. He had like 3 pts and I absolutely abused him when he was playing defense. I think it definitely has to do with people's defensive style and how they adjust (or don't).

[goh]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I didn't change any D formations or match ups. 1/4 man all the way through unless the AI auto calls it at some point. I'm an offensive genius,D isn't really my thing. Same thing with Madden,I use the ask Madden on D and just pick from one of those.

I know I should switch to the full court press if I'm down a lot or it's late but no idea when/if I should switch to zone.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I think Ive seen enough.

My last game was Denver(me) 93, Spurs 85.

I decided to not play on ball 100% of the time as i usually do, and instead played controlling the SG all game.

I made sure I constantly had my d-pressures consistant with who was on the court

I used:

Parker: Loose, no double
Manu: normal, no double
RJ: loose, no double
Mcdyess, Normal or loose, no double
Duncan. Loose, and I mised in doubles here and there

Bonner: tight
Mason: tight


I think we can put this to bed..there's no script, and it is all in how the user is playing, and the user's ability to cope with the difficulty level.

At this point, if people are still having trouble, they should just play on pro, and get a slider set that provides them a challenge.

[therizing02]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I think Ive seen enough.

My last game was Denver(me) 93, Spurs 85.

I decided to not play on ball 100% of the time as i usually do, and instead played controlling the SG all game.

I made sure I constantly had my d-pressures consistant with who was on the court

I used:

Parker: Loose, no double
Manu: normal, no double
RJ: loose, no double
Mcdyess, Normal or loose, no double
Duncan. Loose, and I mised in doubles here and there

Bonner: tight
Mason: tight


I think we can put this to bed..there's no script, and it is all in how the user is playing, and the user's ability to cope with the difficulty level.

At this point, if people are still having trouble, they should just play on pro, and get a slider set that provides them a challenge.

Lol! I think your probably right. Let's just go ahead lock this thing up.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I think Ive seen enough.

My last game was Denver(me) 93, Spurs 85.

I decided to not play on ball 100% of the time as i usually do, and instead played controlling the SG all game.

I made sure I constantly had my d-pressures consistant with who was on the court

I used:

Parker: Loose, no double
Manu: normal, no double
RJ: loose, no double
Mcdyess, Normal or loose, no double
Duncan. Loose, and I mised in doubles here and there

Bonner: tight
Mason: tight


I think we can put this to bed..there's no script, and it is all in how the user is playing, and the user's ability to cope with the difficulty level.

At this point, if people are still having trouble, they should just play on pro, and get a slider set that provides them a challenge.

Dont see how this "puts it to bed", but I do agree its going in circles at this point...well, not really in circles...people who had the opinions have just moved on..lol I dont think anyones stance has changed since the experience began...