What exactly is real-time physics?

[Live_4real]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

EA is using the physics system they developed for fight night 4.

Nice TYVM

People keep bringing up the 1 year dev cycle but you have to understand that this has most likely been in the works for a while now. Gamedevs plan for the future all the time and its not uncommon that they could be working on something in private......

Man, you are right, but no one said they were starting from scratch, as someone said, they are even using a physics engine used before in fight night 4, and yes they are probably developing it even before Live 10 came out, but even that is a very short period of time, as someone said before, NHL predicts 3 years, even if this Dev cycle is not year, let´s say, 1 year and a half, it is almost sure that they will still have to work hard next year to make all the game with the "skeleton", there isn´t any problem with that, but it is a fact, they will still deliver a huge upgrade compared to last years game, no question about that

PeAcE

[Live Boii]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

i believe if we look at it the right way its more clear as to how much they can get done.

true it takes time to add the skeleton and weight and momentum. and inn years past it would have taken years to get everything physics based. but if you realize that the time that use to be spent on animation has been cut considerably with the ANT engine. if you can fix and create animation in seconds then you can work on other things with the spare time. and animations is really the only edge 2k has on ea because they have had a solid product since 2k7.

ea finally had solid ground with live 10 so now its a matter of adding and taking away. i look forward to how many new animations we see.

[Live_4real]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

ea finally had solid ground with live 10 so now its a matter of adding and taking away. i look forward to how many new animations we see.

We will see endless animations (non scripted animations, and that is what is cool about these engines), that is the goal of real time physics, there was someone on this forum in another thread that said that from what he talked in E3 with some elite 11 people, he had a feeling that this year the game will probably not be 100% of what they want to get in, and I don´t know why he has that feeling, but I kind of understand why he feels that way, because this engine gives you endless possibilities, because the game has no control over those animations, because it depends on who are the guys making a mid-air collision, depending on so many variables that the game feels real, and to manage that in 1 year or more depending on how many time are they working on this, it is almost impossible.

It is not about how many rebound animations or collision animations, because all of that depends on physics now (and those physics depend on what players??? momentum??? weight??? etc, etc), and that is what is cool about the real-time physics, and if you want to see how can the game be with this feature look at the NHL videos in the front page, i mean I am not a huge hockey fan, but dammm, that really looked unscripted, and players falling on the ground, I mean, I didn´t play the game so, I can´t make evaluations, put on the screen it looked real, and that is what this can give to sports games, endless possibilities and unscripted wow moments, but let´s see how they use it in the first year in the game, cmon devs GO TO WORK

PeAcE

[rockchisler]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

lol no man.....



no they dont. all the have to do is model a basic rig and adjust it accordingly,all the other work is on the programmers side.......



People keep bringing up the 1 year dev cycle but you have to understand that this has most likely been in the works for a while now. Gamedevs plan for the future all the time and its not uncommon that they could be working on something in private......

Yep I spoke with Mike Wang when he was still at EA before 10 dropped he said they had a small team working on code for Live 12 (Elite Now). Gotta stay ahead

[TheKasmar]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Until I see 5-on-five gameplay footage that really tests the engine, then I think this is a legitamite question.

[mharlem]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

So just to see if I understood, Euphoria is a game animation engine (software) used to create real-time physics???

But EA(NHL/elite/etc) is not using Euphoria right???

If you see Backbreaker videos or even play it, man, you will be impressed, this is the future of gaming, players now have a skeleton, images are not empty, they have cells (lol), but as people say, this level of developing takes time

Another question, people said that now EA, specially the Elite team, can now make adjustments that took hours before but now they take seconds. My question is, those adjustments are on gameplay itself, or on these real time physics thing, meaning that what takes 3 years in the NHL series can take less in the elite????

I don´t know how can the Elite team develop this in only one year, and don´t know if the develop made before in NHL can help the elite team, but all I know is that this is the future of sports gaming, and companies that do master it 1st, will have huge advantages

Just look at Backbreakers, no one gave a chance without the teams license, but now we can see that with this Euphoria they took gameplay and realism to another level

And no, you can´t compare NHL to b-ball, you said that you have less collisions in b-ball, it is correct, but don´t forget that you have mid-air collisions, which makes it, more difficult to say in what sport is harder to develop this engine

PeAcE

EA created their own engine thats just like the Euphoria engine and with this engine they can get alot more done because they dont have to do mo-cap for every aspect of the game because the engine generate animations on the fly. What worries me the most is how do they go about using sig jumpshots, dribble moves, dunks, and so on with using this engine. Im thinking EA created a engine that still can use mo-cap stuff and real time physics at the same time and it could be the reason for a more skilled based game.

This is NHL 11 first year using this engine and its very clear how much has been done.

Hockey is a violent sport filled with bone-rattling hits along the boards and wince-inducing open-ice checks, but over the past few years the checking in NHL has become too predictable. With the new real-time physics engine, however, every hit will look and feel different. Developed internally with the help of the Fight Night team, the new engine gives realistic physical properties to the sticks, pucks, and players, bringing the game closer to what we see every night on the ice. Like Natural Motion’s Euphoria technology, this procedural system generates animations on the fly, getting rid of the repetitive canned animations that plague so many sports games. Whether you’re on open ice or along the boards, every collision looks unique – players can catch the buckles along the benches, get their skates tied up, or even keep their balance if the checker only gets a small piece of him. Players rebound viciously from the glass after getting checked into the boards, and if you hit your victim hard enough he may drop his stick or suffer a gruesome injury.

http://gameinformer.com/games/nhl_11/b/xbox360/archive/2010/06/08/nhl-11-first-look.aspx

[FreshPrince22]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOM8M5R80J0

with real-time physics, shouldn't durant have clipped jennings' right arm and left him reaching for the rim with just his left or losing his balance @ 1:50?


he gets to the rim pretty cleanly for a guy who just got his dunk sent back

[Live_4real]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOM8M5R80J0


with real-time physics, shouldn't durant have clipped jennings' right arm and left him reaching for the rim with just his left or losing his balance @ 1:50?


he gets to the rim pretty cleanly for a guy who just got his dunk sent back

No because that was a clean block, meaning he didn´t even make contact with the dunker, there was no contact with the arm, so let´s wait and see when they release a video were mid-air collision happens, or just 2 arms making contact, and how does the shooter reacts to the contact, making adjustments mid-air or just falling when huge contact or bigger body impacts him or any part of his body

PeAcE

[Live_4real]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

EA created their own engine thats just like the Euphoria engine and with this engine they can get alot more done because they dont have to do mo-cap for every aspect of the game because the engine generate animations on the fly. What worries me the most is how do they go about using sig jumpshots, dribble moves, dunks, and so on with using this engine. Im thinking EA created a engine that still can use mo-cap stuff and real time physics at the same time and it could be the reason for a more skilled based game.

Good post bro, yeah, the sig moves is where 2k have a major development, and it takes time, but again we don´t know how is the work progressing and for how long so, I will be happy if the better players have sig moves, and wait until next year to see every player personalized just like the real deal

And yes this engines gives them endless possibilities for unscripted, based on physics, animations, so that is why it takes time to take full advantage of the engine, and that is why b-ball fans should now be more happy and hopeful about LIVE/ELITE future. Now they have the right engine, now it´s a matter of characterizing those millions of animations based on players physical characteristics, sig moves, momentum, etc etc, and because there is so many physical nuances to make the game real, it will take time to master it.

But now is safe to say that Elite ceiling is now much higher then it was years ago, and in the end the b-ball lovers will win

PeAcE

[FreshPrince22]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

No because that was a clean block, meaning he didn´t even make contact with the dunker, there was no contact with the arm, so let´s wait and see when they release a video were mid-air collision happens, or just 2 arms making contact, and how does the shooter reacts to the contact, making adjustments mid-air or just falling when huge contact or bigger body impacts him or any part of his body

PeAcE

my point is that it's humanly impossible for jennings to have continued his motion to the basket like that after a block like that.


of course it's a "clean block" if durant's arm is morphing through jennings' wrist on the way down, or if there's no consideration for the fact that slapping the ball away on a dunk like that would alter the offensive player's momentum


jennings' animation continues as if he actually made the dunk. it says "work in progress" though, so i won't make a big deal of it at this point. but yeah...

[Live_4real]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

my point is that it's humanly impossible for jennings to have continued his motion to the basket like that after a block like that.


of course it's a "clean block" if durant's arm is morphing through jennings' wrist on the way down, or if there's no consideration for the fact that slapping the ball away on a dunk like that would alter the offensive player's momentum


jennings' animation continues as if he actually made the dunk. it says "work in progress" though, so i won't make a big deal of it at this point. but yeah...

Its is not humanly impossible, and let me tell you why, normally a block attempt on dunk, normally has body to body contact in mid-air, but this time, Durant blocked the little fella trying to go for a dunk, but Durant was to his right, so he just touched the ball, I didn´t see any morphing between the 2 players, but that is just me

When a smaller guy that barely dunks, goes for a dunk, he doesn´t have that vicious momentum such as LBJ, VC(old days), t-mac(old says) or D12, and in that sequence a taller dude that jump higher, blocked slapped the ball out of his hands without making any contact with the player, and the player continue his was to the basket because he is not a vicious dunker and the body momentum wasn´t affected

Let me explain better, when d12, or lbj, goes for a dunk, the ball is very strongly holded, because they are going to destroy the basket, when guy like Jennings, Kevin martin, etc, go to the basket to dunk the ball you can easily slap the ball without making any contact, and not destroying their momentum in the air

It is normal that the guy continues even without the ball to dunk, you see this in the NBA, when the guy starts screaming after the ball gets slapped out of the hand, to try and make the referees think that the guy touched his arm

This video is what you are talking about

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Raj6e2pSpEQ&hl=pt_PT&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0 xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object>

Brown was going all out for that dunk, and maxiel, a big dude just used his pure strength to beat Shanon´s momentum, and these 2 blocks can´t be compared and the body reaction by both players

But I agree with you, Jennings should continue to make his way to the basket, but knowing that he doesn´t have the ball in his hands, so, trough his arms up like he got fouled, and just old the rim just a little to land in safety, because in that animation, if you look closely, Jennings dunk animation after he had the ball was slapped, he just acted like he dunked the ball (I am not talking about the momentum, that is right as i stated before, my opinion), just his body language was a little of

I am not saying that this will be very polished in Elite, but from that scene I can´t criticize the physical aspect of the play, and as I have seen in youtube videos/blogs, the part that people liked most is that block shot, it just looked smooth and clean with no morphing.

PeAcE

[mharlem]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Good post bro, yeah, the sig moves is where 2k have a major development, and it takes time, but again we don´t know how is the work progressing and for how long so, I will be happy if the better players have sig moves, and wait until next year to see every player personalized just like the real deal

Actually I don't think they're that far off because if they can get the real time physics engine working properly it will give them more time to do sig moves because everything else is generated on the fly. Honestly I think they are further along in this development cycle than any other year becasue the purpose of these new engines is to save time and money.

So with that being said if this is a true statement by D. Littiman (Even more important than that, the studio is putting a lot of people, resources, and new technology behind the game.) I don't see Elite 11 falling short.

Next Gen Basketball is finally on its way

[FreshPrince22]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

..............

as a person whose thrown down a dunk or two in my day, there's no way to come from the side and swipe at a two-handed dunk like that without clipping one of the ballhandler's arms/wrists at some point.


this isn't a dunk, but an example of what i'm referring to. nate comes from the side to block a two-handed scorer and murders his arm. there's no way to cleanly swipe at somebody from the side when they're going up with two, which is why i said there's likely morphing in that Elite clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCJK1hPpLCE

another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC6qYglQWgI . based on that Elite video, Richardson would probably be hanging from the rim instead of looking like a fool on the ground


____________

and as for momentum, being small isn't gonna keep the player continuing as if nothing happened. if your force is directed on slamming the ball through the basket and somebody interrupts your path enough to slap it out of your hands, you don't just keep nonchalantly flying through the air.


if anything, a "vicious" player like lebron or dwight howard stands a better chance of continuing their motion because of how strong they are. and if they do, they're probably taking part of the defender with them


the way you're explaining it sounds as if the ball is something that just hovers around the dunker's hand as can be slapped away freely, when in actuality, the ball is somewhat of an extension of the player's arm when they're in motion like that. when guys get dunks blocked, it's typically not an act when they scream, flail their arms, or fall down.


that shannon brown video isn't really what i was referring to. that's just an example of a guy running into a brick wall. there are other ways to impede a dunker's intended motion than to have a huge collision like that. Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0X6gkW46Kg

kobe only gets the ball slapped away, but he has to take on the force of deflection, which is enough to stop him from continuing as if nothing happened. with the way Elite looks now, he would've been hanging on the rim after that block

[ParisB]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

wow, we're way over analyzing this now..

c'mon now, we're playing a video game

[TUSS11]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Yes, there was clipping between Durant's right arm and Jennings' right arm. I remember Draft Combine 2K10 where occasionally arms and legs movements were affected by contact. However, it never made it into NBA 2K10. Hopefully EA has something to solve this issue.