What exactly is real-time physics?

[kumamae_33]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Thanks 4 answering my question Reanimator.

Since Elite 11 will be using the P.E. does this mean that dribbling in traffic or doing a spin move will result into a deflection or turnover? By the way the spin move in Live 10 is insane and is being exploited by cheesers online especially in traffic. I hope this problem will be eliminated in Elite 11 through the implementation of P.E..

How about the gather and euro step? Do we have full control on what direction we can gather or eurostep?

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Thanks 4 answering my question Reanimator.

Since Elite 11 will be using the P.E. does this mean that dribbling in traffic or doing a spin move will result into a deflection or turnover? By the way the spin move in Live 10 is insane and is being exploited by cheesers online especially in traffic. I hope this problem will be eliminated in Elite 11 through the implementation of P.E..

How about the gather and euro step? Do we have full control on what direction we can gather or eurostep?

The way the spin move works this year, and the reasons why it is effective make me confident that it will not be an exploit this year. There are effective ways to defend it and ways you can expose yourself to getting beat by it.

And yes, the direction of the gather/pro hop/euro step can all be controlled using the left stick.

[P-Dub]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Body contact is much better and is something we've been focusing on as part of our effort to eliminate two player animations and make things more dynamic and responsive.

When the community guys were up here, we looked closely at some problems with collisions and still being able to do crossovers and make forward progress.

We fixed on of those problems with the guys, so that you were forced into a protected 90 degree crossover when in collision, taking away the forward progress ones all together.

If you read my previous post about the jostling system you'll get an idea of how physical play on defense will affect the dribbler.

Glad to help. I remember you played that fix back in slow motion and there was an odd issue of the ball handler's head colliding with the defender's stomach or something. Was that issue ironed out? If not, is it possible to use the 45 degree animation but just skew it so it is performed at a much wider angle?

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Again, we need to make sure that getting the ball and pump faking every time to draw the foul isn't an effective strategy. Just like it isn't an effective strategy in real life.

I'm not too worried about this for reasons discussed in other posts, but it all boils down to the fact that biting on the fake is all in your control, and you'll have different levels of commitment you can make (contest, jump up/down, jump forward).

This is kind of huge hehe....so before all we could do is jump forward. Are you saying we can choose whether to 1. arms up 2. straight jump up 3. straight jump forward ?

This adds a massive dynamic to the field... This changes the landscape of playing defense.

Three questions:

1. Does each type of contesting have a different impact on lowering the shot sweet spot?

2. Will jumping forward draw a foul consistently?

3. The spin move was used by cheesers to move faster down the court and through traffic without consequence, even if I do not take proper defensive position, it should be IMPOSSIBLE to spin through traffic. Can you confirm that for Elite 11'?

[P-Dub]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Will the spin move cover a bit more ground than what I see in the videos? As it looks, the player justs spins in one place.

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Glad to help. I remember you played that fix back in slow motion and there was an odd issue of the ball handler's head colliding with the defender's stomach or something. Was that issue ironed out? If not, is it possible to use the 45 degree animation but just skew it so it is performed at a much wider angle?

Not yet, no. We're tackling things that directly affect the gameplay experience first, things that will determine the outcome on the court.

We're going to tackle what we consider visual problems after that. Sliding, minor clipping (the head though the chest is a good example of this).

So in your example, I don't think I would fix the head clipping by changing the animation selection. That should be done based more on body position (like what you saw up here with the 90 crossover example).

The head through the chest is more of a posture and awareness issue and would fall into the visuals category.

We're going to try to get to as much as we can, but right now the focus is on material gameplay issues first, and visual issues second. We have time to nail both, but the priorities are important.

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

Will the spin move cover a bit more ground than what I see in the videos? As it looks, the player justs spins in one place.

Yes, there is a standing and running spin (and everything in between I think) so you should see the players momentum preserved in the spin.

The moving spins are more about maintaining contact and sealing out your opponent, and less about raw speed (but there are speed differences based on player ratings).

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

This is kind of huge hehe....so before all we could do is jump forward. Are you saying we can choose whether to 1. arms up 2. straight jump up 3. straight jump forward ?

This adds a massive dynamic to the field... This changes the landscape of playing defense.

Three questions:

1. Does each type of contesting have a different impact on lowering the shot sweet spot?

2. Will jumping forward draw a foul consistently?

3. The spin move was used by cheesers to move faster down the court and through traffic without consequence, even if I do not take proper defensive position, it should be IMPOSSIBLE to spin through traffic. Can you confirm that for Elite 11'?

1. It should, yes. This hasn't been completed yet but to balance the feature properly this would make the most sense.

2. Consistency is key for us this year, it is vital for users to get consistent feedback so they can effectively learn the game and the controls. So yes, it will be consistent and you should be able to learn the rules and apply your strategy appropriately.

3. I can't confirm this yet as this work hasn't been completed. But we are aware of the concern. Stealing and defensive movement is so radically different this year from last year that it's hard to really understand all the factors involved until you've tried the game for yourself.

I think we're on the same page here, it will just be a matter of finding the right balance.

[thomonkey]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

reanimator, to keep people from pump faking many times you should make a decrease in the sweet spot/power meter for each pump fake because in real life the more pump fakes you do, the more you are out of rhythm and the harder the shot is. That's why smart players dont pump fake a million times in real life. there is this one nba player that pump fakes multiple times but i can't remember his name... :P


also, have you guys decided how to make layup success controlled by the user instead of a dice roll?

[kumamae_33]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

reanimator, to keep people from pump faking many times you should make a decrease in the sweet spot/power meter for each pump fake because in real life the more pump fakes you do, the more you are out of rhythm and the harder the shot is. That's why smart players dont pump fake a million times in real life. there is this one nba player that pump fakes multiple times but i can't remember his name... :P


also, have you guys decided how to make layup success controlled by the user instead of a dice roll?

Agreed. Plus chances are the defender can strip the ball out of your hands if you keep pump faking repeatedly in a single possession.

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

reanimator, to keep people from pump faking many times you should make a decrease in the sweet spot/power meter for each pump fake because in real life the more pump fakes you do, the more you are out of rhythm and the harder the shot is. That's why smart players dont pump fake a million times in real life. there is this one nba player that pump fakes multiple times but i can't remember his name... :P


also, have you guys decided how to make layup success controlled by the user instead of a dice roll?

You know what, this totally makes sense, but similar to another post someone made about fear of a defender, I think the act of flicking up on the stick over and over will actually put you, the gamer, out of your rhythm and make it more difficult to hit to subsequent shot.

We'll have to test this theory out, but if it's true I'd shy away from making it have a direct impact in the game, and leave it to the user's skill instead.

[thomonkey]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

You know what, this totally makes sense, but similar to another post someone made about fear of a defender, I think the act of flicking up on the stick over and over will actually put you, the gamer, out of your rhythm and make it more difficult to hit to subsequent shot.

We'll have to test this theory out, but if it's true I'd shy away from making it have a direct impact in the game, and leave it to the user's skill instead.

i think that having 3 practice flicks may actually make the shot easier, but i'd have to play the game to actually tell. it could go either way. the thing about pump faking a bunch is that you let the defender catch up to you as well so there may be no need to do anything under the hood like you are saying. i do think its good that you guys want to keep things under the hood to a minimum.

anything on the layup success? i think that for contested layups the sweet spot should decrease significantly. Make wide open layups have a super generous sweet spot and make heavily contested layups have a relatively small sweet spot. if a layup is contested heavily make it so you have to push the stick up straight pretty damn good in order to hit that layup. of course ratings should be taken into account.

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

i think that having 3 practice flicks may actually make the shot easier, but i'd have to play the game to actually tell. it could go either way. the thing about pump faking a bunch is that you let the defender catch up to you as well so there may be no need to do anything under the hood like you are saying. i do think its good that you guys want to keep things under the hood to a minimum.

anything on the layup success? i think that for contested layups the sweet spot should decrease significantly. Make wide open layups have a super generous sweet spot and make heavily contested layups have a relatively small sweet spot. if a layup is contested heavily make it so you have to push the stick up straight pretty damn good in order to hit that layup. of course ratings should be taken into account.

Yes, this is how we're planning to handle layups. It's not done yet so it's always possible things could change, but we're going in with the same idea you had here.

I think I discussed this a bit in another thread...or somewhere else in this one. I've started to lose track. Someone was asking about missing layups while referencing Rondo in the finals.

We got into a discussion about what factors would influence a layup's success/difficulty.

[thomonkey]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

ya i remember that discussion, i was in it. i just remember you said you guys hadn't made up your mind. i know you had said that taking off point may be taken into consideration and along those lines
1. is there a way to pull up for a shot instead of taking off for a layup because it is very frustrating when you want to pull up for a jumper but your player goes in for a layup. id hate to want to pull up for a jumper but my player takes off for a layup from far away.
2. also, is there a way to dunk on the right side or left side? many times in the nba a player will dunk the ball on one side to prevent a player coming in from the other side trying to block them. i know we are able to layup on the side we want but there are times when it is better to go strong and dunk it.
3.also, i think that layups after euro steps should have a decrease in sweet spot because this is a more difficult layup since in a euro step you are jumping off the wrong foot and that is awkward. i think i mentioned it before but all of rondo's missed layups were actually eurosteps while he was running very fast.

[rEAnimator]

Re: What exactly is real-time physics?

ya i remember that discussion, i was in it. i just remember you said you guys hadn't made up your mind. i know you had said that taking off point may be taken into consideration and along those lines
1. is there a way to pull up for a shot instead of taking off for a layup because it is very frustrating when you want to pull up for a jumper but your player goes in for a layup. id hate to want to pull up for a jumper but my player takes off for a layup from far away.
2. also, is there a way to dunk on the right side or left side? many times in the nba a player will dunk the ball on one side to prevent a player coming in from the other side trying to block them. i know we are able to layup on the side we want but there are times when it is better to go strong and dunk it.
3.also, i think that layups after euro steps should have a decrease in sweet spot because this is a more difficult layup since in a euro step you are jumping off the wrong foot and that is awkward. i think i mentioned it before but all of rondo's missed layups were actually eurosteps while he was running very fast.

1. Yes. If you are pressing towards the hoop with the left stick it will be a dunk/layup. If not, it will be a shot.

2. I don't think so. I think the hand you dunk with is determined by the hand you were dribbling with, the approach angle, where the defenders are and the player ratings. I can double check this though as I'm not certain.

3. Agreed. Great idea, thanks.