Suction, Control, and Animations

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I would say you are not right because there was still team help defense

On top of that, I didnt globally tune every single player to have an extra low on ball defense and recovery rating. It wasnt a generic edit, it was an extensive time consuming edit for each player and each team.

Ask all of the OSers who played it

This wasnt about sliders, this was all dna slider ratings and normal ratings.

The problem here is that this wasnt just an issue in Live 10... Live 08 didnt have suction in it as you can see from those videos I posted yet it still had rating problems. The stuff was just never touched. Its really sad that its a major detail in the game and was widely ignored.


EA hasnt touched the ratings in this series for years on end thus the remarks about Playmakers and Tomba's work... These guys did this stuff for years and it made a huge difference.

[JWiLL02]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

How exactly, would one "see" controls?

Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k2EpdcTKVE

I thought it would be a great idea for EA to release a similar video this year. You're touting controls as the be all and end all of your product this year, show us EXACTLY why we should put up with the countless other shortcomings in this game. Show us in what way you have the best controlling game on the market.

I just find it curious that EA has essentially said it wasn't possible to achieve improved visuals and animations to go along with their "total control", while their competitor has claimed they've done just that the very same year.

Remember how hyped people were after Mike released those control tutorials showing the various improvements for Live 10? That's what made me a believer last year, I can cite that trailer as the exact reason. I guess it's no coincidence that his presence is consistent with each game to do one of those: 2K8, Live 10 and now 2K11.

I keep hearing "you've got to get your hands on it" etc, etc. Though from what I've seen at this point, even if the game does have great responsiveness, there's absolutely no depth to the controls. That depth is essential for the longevity of the title. What's going to keep me playing for longer than a month when each game starts to feel the same? How enjoyable will the controls really be when the only difference between Kobe, Wade and Lebron are ratings and their jumpshots?

I just get the feeling that after all this hype about the controls, the aspect of Elite that is supposed to be so far ahead it was worth sacrificing countless basketball fundamentals, it won't even be the best controlling game on the market this year.

A huge risk putting "all your eggs in one basket", if I may be cliche for a second. You could say I'm more than a little skeptical this year!

[shadowgrin]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Why would you have a problem paying full price for a game that has a plan for the future?

That seems like a positive to me.

If we had no plan for the future wouldn't that be concerning? Wouldn't you be less likely to invest your time into something that didn't have a clear direction set?

A big LOL.
EA should add that to the game's features.

Hands-On Control!
Real Physics!
Real AI!
Become Legendary!
ESPN In-Game Broadcast!
EASBA!
NBA Jam!
and a plan for the future!!!

We appear to have the support of the company to execute on the three year plan Litty described in his interview.

There will obviously have to some signs of progress for that support to continue, but I really don't see any change of direction happening any time soon.

We appreciate your interaction with the community, your honesty, and faith in your bosses but a lot can happen in 3 years. Besides, what signs of progress would that be? Sales? Metacritic score (lol)?

[Playmakers]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

EA hasnt touched the ratings in this series for years on end thus the remarks about Playmakers and Tomba's work... These guys did this stuff for years and it made a huge difference.

LOL!

That was cold man....

But you are correct that is the only thing that has been consistent over the years with EA ratings of the players not changing.

Some guys have the same ratings they had 4-5 years ago. I had to point this out to Markus last year i believe. Guys in the league 3-4 years still operating under their same exact rookie ratings.

If i wasn't so hands on with the ratings each year i would have never noticed it myself.

Pretty slick of EA to try and get by without changing ratings for like 4-5 years.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

A big LOL.
EA should add that to the game's features.

Hands-On Control!
Real Physics!
Real AI!
Become Legendary!
ESPN In-Game Broadcast!
EASBA!
NBA Jam!
and a plan for the future!!!

No seriously, I still don't get it. Why the LOL? How is having a plan and direction for the future a bad thing.

I'm not saying it's something that should go on the back of the box or anything like that.

But how is it a bad thing?

[stepsix]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I would say you are not right because there was still team help defense

On top of that, I didnt globally tune every single player to have an extra low on ball defense and recovery rating. It wasnt a generic edit, it was an extensive time consuming edit for each player and each team.

Ask all of the OSers who played it

This wasnt about sliders, this was all dna slider ratings and normal ratings.

The problem here is that this wasnt just an issue in Live 10... Live 08 didnt have suction in it as you can see from those videos I posted yet it still had rating problems. The stuff was just never touched. Its really sad that its a major detail in the game and was widely ignored.


EA hasnt touched the ratings in this series for years on end thus the remarks about Playmakers and Tomba's work... These guys did this stuff for years and it made a huge difference.

Gentlemen gentlemen...I've seen what you guys do with the ratings and it's impressive the level of detail you go in to. I think all rEAnimator is saying is that the specific issue brought up of defensive suction around jostles & dribble bumps was one of the things that felt wrong enough to warrant changing the feature itself. He's not calling into question the time & effort people on these boards have put in to make the game play better.

When you have a year to make a game it can be the case that some aspects don't get tuned to people's liking - one of the main reasons we have them in the first place. Also why there's often a patch.

[TheBrothers24]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

No seriously, I still don't get it. Why the LOL? How is having a plan and direction for the future a bad thing.

I'm not saying it's something that should go on the back of the box or anything like that.

But how is it a bad thing?

He just worded it wrong but the gist of it from SOME gamers, not all just some, is why go spend money on a product knowing it will not have crucial elements of the sport it is trying to depict? Especially knowing that next years version or the version two years from now will be the finished product.

Not saying that Elite 11 won't be finished because it will in a sense but the lack of in-game injuries is critical to any sports game. So what's the point of spending $63 now when i can wait til everything i expect to be in a basketball game is put in it?

The control in this years game may be the best ever in a sports game but knowing that i will never lose a player to injury during the season if i play every game is a killer for me. I can't spend full price on the game knowing this. I'm not saying your game isn't good because it very well may be great but that omission decided my purchasing plan this year.

[TheBrothers24]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

My last post was not an attack on you or any other developer for Elite. I want you guys to continue doing what you are doing and make the game as good as it can be. I am going to play the game and pick it up at some point but not on first day of release and not for 60 bones.

[shadowgrin]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

No seriously, I still don't get it. Why the LOL? How is having a plan and direction for the future a bad thing.

I'm not saying it's something that should go on the back of the box or anything like that.

But how is it a bad thing?

It's more about your justification that people should spend $60 for a game NOW that's based on the premise that it will improve in the future.

Why would you have a problem paying full price for a game that has a plan for the future?

Unless I misconstrued your post, then I stand corrected.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

He just worded it wrong but the gist of it from SOME gamers, not all just some, is why go spend money on a product knowing it will not have crucial elements of the sport it is trying to depict? Especially knowing that next years version or the version two years from now will be the finished product.

Not saying that Elite 11 won't be finished because it will in a sense but the lack of in-game injuries is critical to any sports game. So what's the point of spending $63 now when i can wait til everything i expect to be in a basketball game is put in it?

The control in this years game may be the best ever in a sports game but knowing that i will never lose a player to injury during the season if i play every game is a killer for me. I can't spend full price on the game knowing this. I'm not saying your game isn't good because it very well may be great but that omission decided my purchasing plan this year.

I hear what you're saying, but isn't that the case for every sports game that iterates year to year?

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

It's more about your justification that people should spend $60 for a game NOW that's based on the premise that it will improve in the future.



Unless I misconstrued your post, then I stand corrected.

This year's game is a quality product that will stand on its own merits. It is by no means incomplete.

Vastly improve gameplay and controls, new modes like EASBA and Legendary certainly deserve consideration for a purchase.

The fact that it will get better in following years should not take away from that.

[convince]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I hear what you're saying, but isn't that the case for every sports game that iterates year to year?

I'm assuming I'm misreading your statement, but i read what he wrote, and i don't think your quote rings true to anything he said. Please be specific.

[Dawgthem]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I hear what you're saying, but isn't that the case for every sports game that iterates year to year?

TRue but you don't hear that other game company producing there game with any setbacks or dropping to there consumers that there game is upon a 3 year plan in a way it seems they've fixed everything that consumers disliked about there last game even having it run at a smooth 60 frames. Were not saying the game can't stand on its on because it will what were saying is,... whats teh difference between waiting until next year when its better or the year after that.. Will we miss anything from your game that sets it different from that other game that seems have better quality???. What do we lose if we wait till year 3 to buy it

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

TRue but you don't hear that other game company producing there game with any setbacks or dropping to there consumers that there game is upon a 3 year plan in a way it seems they've fixed everything that consumers disliked about there last game even having it run at a smooth 60 frames. Were not saying the game can't stand on its on because it will what were saying is,... whats teh difference between waiting until next year when its better or the year after that.. Will we miss anything from your game that sets it different from that other game that seems have better quality???. What do we lose if we wait till year 3 to buy it

Nothing except the 3 years of enjoyment playing it, the discussions and back and forth on these forums in terms of what to improve and how to do it, possibly the opportunity to establish your team in the EASBA.

But you're right, you could wait. And that's your choice.

It's the case with every sports game (I wasn't referring specifically to 2K, but to all sports games that release every year).

[TheBrothers24]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Nothing except the 3 years of enjoyment playing it, the discussions and back and forth on these forums in terms of what to improve and how to do it, possibly the opportunity to establish your team in the EASBA.

But you're right, you could wait. And that's your choice.

It's the case with every sports game (I wasn't referring specifically to 2K, but to all sports games that release every year).

I thank you for your response and respect your answer. I have stated that i will plan on picking up Elite 11 just not on first day of release( i have bought both games on the 1st day the last two years). I look foward to trying out legendary mode, and if EASBA is as good as the hockey league then it may very well warrant a purchase from me alone.

The problem is I am first and foremost a franchise player. So while the other modes may be just good enough for a purchase, they aren't my primary mode of play. Now i know with what you guys tried to accomplish by changing to a "RTP" engine so i give props for that and see that in the future it could be the very thing that all gamers come to want and need. So as long as dynasty gets the needed upgrades to it next year, Elite 12 will be a day 1 purchase for me.