Suction, Control, and Animations

[ataman5]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I wouldn't believe you if you told me that is rtp.

And again it's not about watching vids, it's about feeling. Such as the difference between a good and bad racing game or scoring a goal knowing that you're the one making all that happen like in Fifa 10 with manual controls, friend.

It's about user control and dictating what you do with your stick to make animations happen, not watching animations gettin your control out of you.

Vids will never do justice, getting hands on will.

And also the latest vids looking pretty good,too from the ones that was taken out of Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event. I remember that you were the one taking those footages if im not mistaken, odd.

[JerseySuave4]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

what good is the feel if the look is ugly? Most people care about video games LOOKING good rather than FEELING good since you're watching it.

So if a game looks ugly but feels good, what good is it? If a game looks amazing but doesnt feel great, you can get past the feel of the game because the visuals make up for it.

If having RTP means the game is going to look this way, then i say go back to 2 player animations. At least then you won't have guys flying 5 feet backwards when trying to block a dunk.

Watch this video at the 4:30 mark. That is what it looks like in NBA Elite 11 when a guy tries to block a dunk. He just gets sucked back into the base of the basket basically while the offense glides in the air like a tractor beam from the rim is pulling him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=264QMw6ZVNc

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I wouldn't believe you if you told me that is rtp.

And again it's not about watching vids, it's about feeling. Such as the difference between a good and bad racing game or scoring a goal knowing that you're the one making all that happen like in Fifa 10 with manual controls, friend.

It's about user control and dictating what you do with your stick to make animations happen, not watching animations gettin your control out of you.

Vids will never do justice, getting hands on will.

And also the latest vids looking pretty good,too from the ones that was taken out of Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event. I remember that you were the one taking those footages if im not mistaken, odd.

You gotta feel it.. I understand, thats the mantra

Yes I played it and recorded all of them trying to give you guys some footage since EA wasnt releasing jack in the media.

Matter of fact they didnt release anything at all until I posted those videos...
thats what is odd.

Vids will never do justice... the only way you can say that is if your game looks weird, I dont see any other game company in any other genre telling the users forget what they see, they just have to feel it... which I did do by the way

[TUSS11]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

So if a game looks ugly but feels good, what good is it? If a game looks amazing but doesnt feel great, you can get past the feel of the game because the visuals make up for it.

It all comes down to personally preference. I'm glad EA is going an alternative route rather than trying to make their own version of 2K basketball. I think what they're doing (if they stick with it) will pay off in the long run. When you build something (be it a house, video game, etc.) the foundation is the most important thing. So once they have a solid foundation they can start building from that.

[WTF]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

You gotta feel it.. I understand, thats the mantra

Yes I played it and recorded all of them trying to give you guys some footage since EA wasnt releasing jack in the media.

Matter of fact they didnt release anything at all until I posted those videos...
thats what is odd.

Vids will never do justice... the only way you can say that is if your game looks weird, I dont see any other game company in any other genre telling the users forget what they see, they just have to feel it... which I did do by the way

This is very weird indeed. The last time they did that was... Live 07. Weird.

I really hope I'm wrong though. I hope for the sake of the guys on the board that this is a good title. It won't be for me, after the whole March Madness leaving the customer behind bit that EA pulled. Releasing an unplayable game which BADLY needed a patch for the vast majority of users, being integral parts of the board pre-release, and then after release, running away from the title like it had the plague. That, and that alone is the reason why I will not even take a look at Elite this year.

That's just a poor business practice.

Good post though Dre. Live 08... the Days...

[mrprice33]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

You gotta feel it.. I understand, thats the mantra

Yes I played it and recorded all of them trying to give you guys some footage since EA wasnt releasing jack in the media.

Matter of fact they didnt release anything at all until I posted those videos...
thats what is odd.

Vids will never do justice... the only way you can say that is if your game looks weird, I dont see any other game company in any other genre telling the users forget what they see, they just have to feel it... which I did do by the way

Isn't that how they marketed the locomotion changes in Madden and NCAA? As it turned out, they were right. Not saying that's definitely the case here (you'd know better than I, being that you've played the game), but there is precedent.

[JerseySuave4]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

yea but in Madden & NCAA you could see how the locomotion made the guys run and move more realistic and made the linemen move realistic, defense couldnt over-pursue because locomotion didnt allow them to magically recover and all that good stuff. It was noticeable while with Real Time Physics we haven't seen much of it in the videos and the controls are something that you dont see you feel.

[mrprice33]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

How exactly, would one "see" controls?

I just don't get the rush to judgement when practically nobody commenting has actually played the game. What happens if you play the demo and you like it? Will the world cease to exist?

[Philstat]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

The graphics had a stylized look in Live 08 that were really unique, there were also hundreds of signature moves in the game - 08 honestly compares well to Elite 11...hard to believe.

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

How exactly, would one "see" controls?

I just don't get the rush to judgement when practically nobody commenting has actually played the game. What happens if you play the demo and you like it? Will the world cease to exist?

I played the game man... Everybody wont like this control set up just because they wont. Its not a good or bad thing... some of the guys that were at the event hated them.. take Jano's cousin for example of one.

So when that fails, then what else is there you're going to tell them they should feel was worth the risk?

[mrprice33]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I played the game man... Everybody wont like this control set up just because they wont. Its not a good or bad thing... some of the guys that were at the event hated them.. take Jano's cousin for example of one.

So when that fails, then what else is there you're going to tell them they should feel was worth the risk?

Of course not everybody will like this control set up, just like not everybody liked FN4s control set up.

All I've been saying is this: if they deliver on the promise of the control scheme and the physics (which still very much is in question) then this game will be a GREAT building block for the future of not only this series, but for basketball games in general. Some people are openly rooting against them, and I don't know how that benefits anyone. Theoretically RTP and true 1-1 controls are better than what we've had before. If they get a chance to fulfill the potential of this new design philosophy, it makes things better for us, as we will get better games. Maybe not this year, but it sets the stage for the future. People complain all the time about how there's no innovation in sports gaming, how everything is so stagnant compared to other genres, but it seems to me like every time a developer takes a chance on a sports game, people whine and complain that things are different than they used to be. It's damaging to the industry. If the game winds up sucking, who cares, except for the people who might lose their jobs over it? There is an alternative game that does things the way they've been done before, and any consumer has the option to purchase that game, if they choose. Nobody is pulling the wool over anybody's eyes, nobody is hiding anything on EA's side. There is a demo coming out that will allow everybody to get a chance to try the game, and we have received a good amount of prerelease information in the form of Q&As and videos. You're not being tricked or deceived in any way. If a consumer decides that EA didn't do enough to get their dollars this year, that's entirely their decision and choice. People around here are acting like the effort wasn't worth it because the 20 minutes of gameplay we have seen (from the first effort, mind you) didn't *look* like it was up to snuff. However, we haven't actually played it yet, nor have we seen whatever might be coming down the road. Wait three years to buy it, I don't care. I'm waiting for the demo to make my decision (much like last year), and if I like it, I'll buy it. If not, I won't, and I'll go to ToG. Or, I'll buy both. It's not *that* serious.

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Its been a foundation with this game since nex gen man

Dont you get it, people never asked for control schemes, they wanted a real life resembling game, a better dynasty, customizable options, and on and on

I mean for instance, if not for those videos, the game would've shipped with Boozer and likley other guys like Big baby davis jumping from the ft line... that trash has nothing to do with sim NBA Basketball at all

The things WTF explained basically explained some of the reasons why people cannot trust EA, and again alot of things asked for were ignored again for an unnecessary controls scheme again, its like the mark is missed and this is why you see people saying they're done

IMO man, the generic feel of the game will get old because you cant have Gasol and LeBron dunking alike, Gasol, Okafor Dwight and CP3 with matched speed running up court, role players with Magic Johhson precision passing, and Wade and Ariza dribbling just like the other and say dawg, this is exactly what i see on tv.

Just noticing the presentation, the announcers are new, but other than logo wipes, i've seen no change, its the same replays and angles, same cut scenes, etc.. from last year. oh and the beginning they copied the same thing 2k did last year, basically the flashing lights and the angle for the jumpball.

Other than that man, this game is what it is..

Of course people will make their decisions, some already have demo or no demo. We'll see how it ends up, I just dont like the animation is the devil campaign going around by some of these posters who have no idea what they're talking about.

[Philstat]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Its been a foundation with this game since nex gen man

Dont you get it, people never asked for control schemes, they wanted a real life resembling game, a better dynasty, customizable options, and on and on

I mean for instance, if not for those videos, the game would've shipped with Boozer and likley other guys like Big baby davis jumping from the ft line... that trash has nothing to do with sim NBA Basketball at all

The things WTF explained basically explained some of the reasons why people cannot trust EA, and again alot of things asked for were ignored again for an unnecessary controls scheme again, its like the mark is missed and this is why you see people saying they're done

IMO man, the generic feel of the game will get old because you cant have Gasol and LeBron dunking alike, Gasol, Okafor Dwight and CP3 with matched speed running up court, role players with Magic Johhson precision passing, and Wade and Ariza dribbling just like the other and say dawg, this is exactly what i see on tv.

Just noticing the presentation, the announcers are new, but other than logo wipes, i've seen no change, its the same replays and angles, same cut scenes, etc.. from last year. oh and the beginning they copied the same thing 2k did last year, basically the flashing lights and the angle for the jumpball.

Other than that man, this game is what it is..

Of course people will make their decisions, some already have demo or no demo. We'll see how it ends up, I just dont like the animation is the devil campaign going around by some of these posters who have no idea what they're talking about.

Man, poetic, no truer words spoken...

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Its been a foundation with this game since nex gen man

Dont you get it, people never asked for control schemes, they wanted a real life resembling game, a better dynasty, customizable options, and on and on

I mean for instance, if not for those videos, the game would've shipped with Boozer and likley other guys like Big baby davis jumping from the ft line... that trash has nothing to do with sim NBA Basketball at all

The things WTF explained basically explained some of the reasons why people cannot trust EA, and again alot of things asked for were ignored again for an unnecessary controls scheme again, its like the mark is missed and this is why you see people saying they're done

IMO man, the generic feel of the game will get old because you cant have Gasol and LeBron dunking alike, Gasol, Okafor Dwight and CP3 with matched speed running up court, role players with Magic Johhson precision passing, and Wade and Ariza dribbling just like the other and say dawg, this is exactly what i see on tv.

Just noticing the presentation, the announcers are new, but other than logo wipes, i've seen no change, its the same replays and angles, same cut scenes, etc.. from last year. oh and the beginning they copied the same thing 2k did last year, basically the flashing lights and the angle for the jumpball.

Other than that man, this game is what it is..

Of course people will make their decisions, some already have demo or no demo. We'll see how it ends up, I just dont like the animation is the devil campaign going around by some of these posters who have no idea what they're talking about.

I definitely agree with you on the "animations are the devil" comment. It's how the animations are used in the game, not the fact that they exist. I'm not sure what's going on there, because the issue is much deeper and more complex than "animations are bad".

I've heard you say "people never asked for control schemes" in several threads now, and I think you need to think a little bigger picture on that one.

People on these boards may not have, but the market for Elite is much larger.

There's a reason no Basketball game has achieved a 90 metacritic rating where Hockey, Soccer, Boxing, Football (I think) all have.

We think the level of control you have is the reason, and we have a good basis for that opinion.

I have the utmost respect for these forums and the people on them, and I think we need to listen to what you guys want out of a sim game as it is a very important element of making a successful basketball franchise. But it is not the only element.

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I definitely agree with you on the "animations are the devil" comment. It's how the animations are used in the game, not the fact that they exist. I'm not sure what's going on there, because the issue is much deeper and more complex than "animations are bad".

I've heard you say "people never asked for control schemes" in several threads now, and I think you need to think a little bigger picture on that one.

People on these boards may not have, but the market for Elite is much larger.

There's a reason no Basketball game has achieved a 90 metacritic rating where Hockey, Soccer, Boxing, Football (I think) all have.

We think the level of control you have is the reason, and we have a good basis for that opinion.

I have the utmost respect for these forums and the people on them, and I think we need to listen to what you guys want out of a sim game as it is a very important element of making a successful basketball franchise. But it is not the only element.

With all due respect Reanimator

Alot of the bickering here is going on because of ignorance to the matter
Some guys took things you guys said and ran with it without looking into it, nor looking back and blam, a discussion that has never been the focus of any nba live game on the forums ever going in circles

Now the controls, thats not something people are against, but again its not the main thing people complained about. Im not sure how that was missed, and regardless of metacritic scores, I still cannot fathom how the competition had its worst control ever and sold 2 million copies of their game.

Now that is some information that I just dont understand when you mention what you just did.

With NBA Live/Elite, the game was never great, never reached its potential, whatever new tech was introduced was either implemented wrong, broken, or didnt function well, and the game was continually rebooted, so in essence it makes sense to get the game on track before someone just says control is the reason why its not selling.