Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

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  • SonicMage
    NBA Ratings Wizard
    • Oct 2002
    • 3544

    #106
    Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    monkey said:
    The 2K4 faces are actual cyber mapped faces...ie, real faces basically.


    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

    Uh....no. There will be plenty of improvements made over the years to face mapping that will leave this generation behind. I just thought of three big ones off the top of my head.

    Anyways, I like those patched Live faces as far as what was produced with the tools and skeleton provided. At least in Live, you'll be able to create your own custom faces, unlike in 2k4.
    NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

    Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
    Link to Ratings 1996-2017
    Link to Ratings 1973-1996
    Link to Ratings All-time

    Discussion found here

    Comment

    • CLASSIFIED
      Rookie
      • Jul 2003
      • 404

      #107
      Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

      Yes it matters BIG TIME. Without the stellar graphics you loose the authentic feel of player likeness. In other words it doesn't feel like you are really playing with that person just a video game(cartoon) version. These games are trying to duplicate playing real NBA Basketball but it won't be complete unless it looks like it also, meaning players look photo realistic in face and body arena and presentation. Can't settle for okay graphics when I want them to look as real as possible no matter what to further authenticate the game. Basically blur the line between real and virtual. ESPN is taking it their so yes graphics matter and I expect better graphics from ESPN next year also. The current technology and console powers demand it. When PS3 and XBOX 2 hit you won't be happy with ugly graphics no matter how smooth animations are cuz thats part of the reason why you upgrade to a new console for better graphical power and advanced system specs. I got XBOX so I expect games to fully utilize it's power. If one game looks a generation behind graphically I won't except that for the current consoles I pay hundreds of dollars for if others of the same genre look 10x better. To me thats unexcusable.

      Comment

      • CLASSIFIED
        Rookie
        • Jul 2003
        • 404

        #108
        Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

        Yes it matters BIG TIME. Without the stellar graphics you loose the authentic feel of player likeness. In other words it doesn't feel like you are really playing with that person just a video game(cartoon) version. These games are trying to duplicate playing real NBA Basketball but it won't be complete unless it looks like it also, meaning players look photo realistic in face and body arena and presentation. Can't settle for okay graphics when I want them to look as real as possible no matter what to further authenticate the game. Basically blur the line between real and virtual. ESPN is taking it their so yes graphics matter and I expect better graphics from ESPN next year also. The current technology and console powers demand it. When PS3 and XBOX 2 hit you won't be happy with ugly graphics no matter how smooth animations are cuz thats part of the reason why you upgrade to a new console for better graphical power and advanced system specs. I got XBOX so I expect games to fully utilize it's power. If one game looks a generation behind graphically I won't except that for the current consoles I pay hundreds of dollars for if others of the same genre look 10x better. To me thats unexcusable.

        Comment

        • CLASSIFIED
          Rookie
          • Jul 2003
          • 404

          #109
          Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

          Yes it matters BIG TIME. Without the stellar graphics you loose the authentic feel of player likeness. In other words it doesn't feel like you are really playing with that person just a video game(cartoon) version. These games are trying to duplicate playing real NBA Basketball but it won't be complete unless it looks like it also, meaning players look photo realistic in face and body arena and presentation. Can't settle for okay graphics when I want them to look as real as possible no matter what to further authenticate the game. Basically blur the line between real and virtual. ESPN is taking it their so yes graphics matter and I expect better graphics from ESPN next year also. The current technology and console powers demand it. When PS3 and XBOX 2 hit you won't be happy with ugly graphics no matter how smooth animations are cuz thats part of the reason why you upgrade to a new console for better graphical power and advanced system specs. I got XBOX so I expect games to fully utilize it's power. If one game looks a generation behind graphically I won't except that for the current consoles I pay hundreds of dollars for if others of the same genre look 10x better. To me thats unexcusable.

          Comment

          • Court_vision
            Banned
            • Oct 2002
            • 8290

            #110
            Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            Sonicmage said:
            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            monkey said:
            The 2K4 faces are actual cyber mapped faces...ie, real faces basically.


            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            Uh....no. There will be plenty of improvements made over the years to face mapping that will leave this generation behind. I just thought of three big ones off the top of my head.

            Anyways, I like those patched Live faces as far as what was produced with the tools and skeleton provided. At least in Live, you'll be able to create your own custom faces, unlike in 2k4.

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            Sonic, you know the scene better than I do...but that Kenyon Martin face etc could be used as real ID. I mean, it IS him.

            The LIVE faces all look very youngish IMO and look like cartoons.

            As stated, Lives movements are better...so it's not a big deal.

            I just can't see how anyone can even begin to debate that LIVES faces are better. It's not even close. It's not even in the same stratosphere. It's like trying to argue a racehorse who has won a maiden from 12 starts is better than a multiple group one winner...


            Comment

            • Court_vision
              Banned
              • Oct 2002
              • 8290

              #111
              Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              Sonicmage said:
              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              monkey said:
              The 2K4 faces are actual cyber mapped faces...ie, real faces basically.


              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              Uh....no. There will be plenty of improvements made over the years to face mapping that will leave this generation behind. I just thought of three big ones off the top of my head.

              Anyways, I like those patched Live faces as far as what was produced with the tools and skeleton provided. At least in Live, you'll be able to create your own custom faces, unlike in 2k4.

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              Sonic, you know the scene better than I do...but that Kenyon Martin face etc could be used as real ID. I mean, it IS him.

              The LIVE faces all look very youngish IMO and look like cartoons.

              As stated, Lives movements are better...so it's not a big deal.

              I just can't see how anyone can even begin to debate that LIVES faces are better. It's not even close. It's not even in the same stratosphere. It's like trying to argue a racehorse who has won a maiden from 12 starts is better than a multiple group one winner...


              Comment

              • Court_vision
                Banned
                • Oct 2002
                • 8290

                #112
                Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                Sonicmage said:
                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                monkey said:
                The 2K4 faces are actual cyber mapped faces...ie, real faces basically.


                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                Uh....no. There will be plenty of improvements made over the years to face mapping that will leave this generation behind. I just thought of three big ones off the top of my head.

                Anyways, I like those patched Live faces as far as what was produced with the tools and skeleton provided. At least in Live, you'll be able to create your own custom faces, unlike in 2k4.

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                Sonic, you know the scene better than I do...but that Kenyon Martin face etc could be used as real ID. I mean, it IS him.

                The LIVE faces all look very youngish IMO and look like cartoons.

                As stated, Lives movements are better...so it's not a big deal.

                I just can't see how anyone can even begin to debate that LIVES faces are better. It's not even close. It's not even in the same stratosphere. It's like trying to argue a racehorse who has won a maiden from 12 starts is better than a multiple group one winner...


                Comment

                • Admiral50
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 3311

                  #113
                  Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                  bigeastbumrush said:
                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                  Admiral50 said:
                  And if you prefer the lowest poly models in a bball game with great looking faces in hi-res then good for you.
                  I prefer ESPN. Everyone is different.

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  Admiral,

                  Do you realize why OS changed the format of Forums? Do you???

                  I'd like to get alot more off my chest (but I won't). But please answer the question I asked.

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  Look you need to stop and take a deep breath. Oh and think too...

                  I never said anything like a f anboy, I never attacked Live without providing proof or at least personal opinion and I even mentioned I have bought EVERY year of the Live Franchise. I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention and to highlight that I think it does certain aspects (in that case graphics) better, but just as much to make the Live game better with as much constructive criticism as criticism in general at how I can't believe people can't tell the big gap in graphic quality. You are sounding like you think you are God... for goodness sake take a reality check. This is a public forum for starters. And while I am keeping within the rules, you can shut your accusing mouth up. What's the point of individual forums for each game if only good things are gonna be said about it? Get real and start thinking before you speak.
                  I make no secret that I currently prefer that 2K series but I also give as much (if not more) criticism to that game. If you don't know why then I can't help that. I am not perfect with everything I say, but I know in the eyes of anyone with some brains and a bit of common sense that I am a useful contributer to this board. And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly...either I am much better than I think at all that or it's a lot easier than you think. Geez I don't even know what else I was given crap for here and while I usually wouldn't worry about it, especially from people I don't know and don't care for, it's brainless comments and the inability to accept criticism and an individuals person opinion that really pisses me off at this place (assuming what's written is within the rules of the board.)

                  And hey if you don't like what I am saying, don't read it, or better yet, if you don't believe it than why worry? They say the truth hurts after all, is that why you are hurt?

                  Then if it's not just what I say that you don't like...report me to the mods and let them decide. If they can't accept an adult converstion and comment like my own then I don't want to be here as much as I don't deserve to be...

                  I'm off to play some 2K3...

                  Comment

                  • Admiral50
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 3311

                    #114
                    Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                    bigeastbumrush said:
                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                    Admiral50 said:
                    And if you prefer the lowest poly models in a bball game with great looking faces in hi-res then good for you.
                    I prefer ESPN. Everyone is different.

                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    Admiral,

                    Do you realize why OS changed the format of Forums? Do you???

                    I'd like to get alot more off my chest (but I won't). But please answer the question I asked.

                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    Look you need to stop and take a deep breath. Oh and think too...

                    I never said anything like a f anboy, I never attacked Live without providing proof or at least personal opinion and I even mentioned I have bought EVERY year of the Live Franchise. I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention and to highlight that I think it does certain aspects (in that case graphics) better, but just as much to make the Live game better with as much constructive criticism as criticism in general at how I can't believe people can't tell the big gap in graphic quality. You are sounding like you think you are God... for goodness sake take a reality check. This is a public forum for starters. And while I am keeping within the rules, you can shut your accusing mouth up. What's the point of individual forums for each game if only good things are gonna be said about it? Get real and start thinking before you speak.
                    I make no secret that I currently prefer that 2K series but I also give as much (if not more) criticism to that game. If you don't know why then I can't help that. I am not perfect with everything I say, but I know in the eyes of anyone with some brains and a bit of common sense that I am a useful contributer to this board. And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly...either I am much better than I think at all that or it's a lot easier than you think. Geez I don't even know what else I was given crap for here and while I usually wouldn't worry about it, especially from people I don't know and don't care for, it's brainless comments and the inability to accept criticism and an individuals person opinion that really pisses me off at this place (assuming what's written is within the rules of the board.)

                    And hey if you don't like what I am saying, don't read it, or better yet, if you don't believe it than why worry? They say the truth hurts after all, is that why you are hurt?

                    Then if it's not just what I say that you don't like...report me to the mods and let them decide. If they can't accept an adult converstion and comment like my own then I don't want to be here as much as I don't deserve to be...

                    I'm off to play some 2K3...

                    Comment

                    • Admiral50
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 3311

                      #115
                      Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                      bigeastbumrush said:
                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                      Admiral50 said:
                      And if you prefer the lowest poly models in a bball game with great looking faces in hi-res then good for you.
                      I prefer ESPN. Everyone is different.

                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                      Admiral,

                      Do you realize why OS changed the format of Forums? Do you???

                      I'd like to get alot more off my chest (but I won't). But please answer the question I asked.

                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                      Look you need to stop and take a deep breath. Oh and think too...

                      I never said anything like a f anboy, I never attacked Live without providing proof or at least personal opinion and I even mentioned I have bought EVERY year of the Live Franchise. I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention and to highlight that I think it does certain aspects (in that case graphics) better, but just as much to make the Live game better with as much constructive criticism as criticism in general at how I can't believe people can't tell the big gap in graphic quality. You are sounding like you think you are God... for goodness sake take a reality check. This is a public forum for starters. And while I am keeping within the rules, you can shut your accusing mouth up. What's the point of individual forums for each game if only good things are gonna be said about it? Get real and start thinking before you speak.
                      I make no secret that I currently prefer that 2K series but I also give as much (if not more) criticism to that game. If you don't know why then I can't help that. I am not perfect with everything I say, but I know in the eyes of anyone with some brains and a bit of common sense that I am a useful contributer to this board. And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly...either I am much better than I think at all that or it's a lot easier than you think. Geez I don't even know what else I was given crap for here and while I usually wouldn't worry about it, especially from people I don't know and don't care for, it's brainless comments and the inability to accept criticism and an individuals person opinion that really pisses me off at this place (assuming what's written is within the rules of the board.)

                      And hey if you don't like what I am saying, don't read it, or better yet, if you don't believe it than why worry? They say the truth hurts after all, is that why you are hurt?

                      Then if it's not just what I say that you don't like...report me to the mods and let them decide. If they can't accept an adult converstion and comment like my own then I don't want to be here as much as I don't deserve to be...

                      I'm off to play some 2K3...

                      Comment

                      • karma224
                        Pro
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 692

                        #116
                        Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        Having said that, does it really matter? LIVE IMO moves a lot better and, if you play using press box or tv camera etc...then the face graphics aren't near as important as the movements.


                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                        good point, and that's why I had a hard time getting into the 2k4 series because the animations look odd and robotic feeling.

                        Comment

                        • karma224
                          Pro
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 692

                          #117
                          Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          Having said that, does it really matter? LIVE IMO moves a lot better and, if you play using press box or tv camera etc...then the face graphics aren't near as important as the movements.


                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                          good point, and that's why I had a hard time getting into the 2k4 series because the animations look odd and robotic feeling.

                          Comment

                          • karma224
                            Pro
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 692

                            #118
                            Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            Having said that, does it really matter? LIVE IMO moves a lot better and, if you play using press box or tv camera etc...then the face graphics aren't near as important as the movements.


                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                            good point, and that's why I had a hard time getting into the 2k4 series because the animations look odd and robotic feeling.

                            Comment

                            • bigeastbumrush
                              My Momma's Son
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 19245

                              #119
                              Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              Admiral50 said:
                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              bigeastbumrush said:
                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              Admiral50 said:
                              And if you prefer the lowest poly models in a bball game with great looking faces in hi-res then good for you.
                              I prefer ESPN. Everyone is different.

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                              Admiral,

                              Do you realize why OS changed the format of Forums? Do you???

                              I'd like to get alot more off my chest (but I won't). But please answer the question I asked.

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                              Look you need to stop and take a deep breath. Oh and think too...

                              I never said anything like a f anboy, I never attacked Live without providing proof or at least personal opinion and I even mentioned I have bought EVERY year of the Live Franchise. I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention and to highlight that I think it does certain aspects (in that case graphics) better, but just as much to make the Live game better with as much constructive criticism as criticism in general at how I can't believe people can't tell the big gap in graphic quality. You are sounding like you think you are God... for goodness sake take a reality check. This is a public forum for starters. And while I am keeping within the rules, you can shut your accusing mouth up. What's the point of individual forums for each game if only good things are gonna be said about it? Get real and start thinking before you speak.
                              I make no secret that I currently prefer that 2K series but I also give as much (if not more) criticism to that game. If you don't know why then I can't help that. I am not perfect with everything I say, but I know in the eyes of anyone with some brains and a bit of common sense that I am a useful contributer to this board. And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly...either I am much better than I think at all that or it's a lot easier than you think. Geez I don't even know what else I was given crap for here and while I usually wouldn't worry about it, especially from people I don't know and don't care for, it's brainless comments and the inability to accept criticism and an individuals person opinion that really pisses me off at this place (assuming what's written is within the rules of the board.)

                              And hey if you don't like what I am saying, don't read it, or better yet, if you don't believe it than why worry? They say the truth hurts after all, is that why you are hurt?

                              Then if it's not just what I say that you don't like...report me to the mods and let them decide. If they can't accept an adult converstion and comment like my own then I don't want to be here as much as I don't deserve to be...

                              I'm off to play some 2K3...

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                              Nice sililoquy Shakespeare.

                              Who cares if you bought every release of NBA Live? And, with the games' release less than a month away, "constructive criticism" (ie., bashing) is useless and pointless because both games are finished already.

                              You said it yourself...
                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
                              Fine. No problem. But just do it in it's appropriate forum.

                              No one cares if good/bad things are said about a certain game in a forum. It's when you start comparing it to your favorite game and making opinionated comments to make what you like seem to be a better product. If you really wanted to make a comparison, you'd compare it to ALL the games out, not just your favorite.

                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                              Who cares...? You didn't design either game, soooooo......?

                              It's not just this one post. It's practically every post you make contains "2K3" like a nervous hiccup.


                              Comment

                              • bigeastbumrush
                                My Momma's Son
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 19245

                                #120
                                Re: Live 2004 is plain ugly ......

                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                Admiral50 said:
                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                bigeastbumrush said:
                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                Admiral50 said:
                                And if you prefer the lowest poly models in a bball game with great looking faces in hi-res then good for you.
                                I prefer ESPN. Everyone is different.

                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                                Admiral,

                                Do you realize why OS changed the format of Forums? Do you???

                                I'd like to get alot more off my chest (but I won't). But please answer the question I asked.

                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                                Look you need to stop and take a deep breath. Oh and think too...

                                I never said anything like a f anboy, I never attacked Live without providing proof or at least personal opinion and I even mentioned I have bought EVERY year of the Live Franchise. I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention and to highlight that I think it does certain aspects (in that case graphics) better, but just as much to make the Live game better with as much constructive criticism as criticism in general at how I can't believe people can't tell the big gap in graphic quality. You are sounding like you think you are God... for goodness sake take a reality check. This is a public forum for starters. And while I am keeping within the rules, you can shut your accusing mouth up. What's the point of individual forums for each game if only good things are gonna be said about it? Get real and start thinking before you speak.
                                I make no secret that I currently prefer that 2K series but I also give as much (if not more) criticism to that game. If you don't know why then I can't help that. I am not perfect with everything I say, but I know in the eyes of anyone with some brains and a bit of common sense that I am a useful contributer to this board. And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly...either I am much better than I think at all that or it's a lot easier than you think. Geez I don't even know what else I was given crap for here and while I usually wouldn't worry about it, especially from people I don't know and don't care for, it's brainless comments and the inability to accept criticism and an individuals person opinion that really pisses me off at this place (assuming what's written is within the rules of the board.)

                                And hey if you don't like what I am saying, don't read it, or better yet, if you don't believe it than why worry? They say the truth hurts after all, is that why you are hurt?

                                Then if it's not just what I say that you don't like...report me to the mods and let them decide. If they can't accept an adult converstion and comment like my own then I don't want to be here as much as I don't deserve to be...

                                I'm off to play some 2K3...

                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                                Nice sililoquy Shakespeare.

                                Who cares if you bought every release of NBA Live? And, with the games' release less than a month away, "constructive criticism" (ie., bashing) is useless and pointless because both games are finished already.

                                You said it yourself...
                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                I point out things I don't like in order to yes, make my current favourite game the centre of attention

                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
                                Fine. No problem. But just do it in it's appropriate forum.

                                No one cares if good/bad things are said about a certain game in a forum. It's when you start comparing it to your favorite game and making opinionated comments to make what you like seem to be a better product. If you really wanted to make a comparison, you'd compare it to ALL the games out, not just your favorite.

                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                And by the way, I know a crapload about 3d and modelling and have enough experience and general common sense to make the comment that Live has lower detailed poly models than 2K/ESPN, so don't go there. I also know exactly what I am talking about with the skill involved in creating textures and mapping them correctly

                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                                Who cares...? You didn't design either game, soooooo......?

                                It's not just this one post. It's practically every post you make contains "2K3" like a nervous hiccup.


                                Comment

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