Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here's why

[LarryBird]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

[noa999]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
JayH1285 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I've been playing Sega for the past two years, but I don't really see how it's an accurate representation of basketball. It's so hard to play a team game, because there is no movement off the ball. Only team you can accurately represent is the Celtics since Walker bricks all his 3's in real life and the game, and you can have Pierce take it by himself while everybody else watches. However there is absolutely no way to simulate the team game that the Kings and Mavs play. When I'm backing my my man down with Webber, it's so frusterating to have nobody cutting to the hoop. When I saw Live's 10 man capture, I decided to switch games this year, because the Sega game is just too slow. It my be realistic, but it's a sim of only one type of basketball, and the Celtics bore me.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

so true. What happened to Sega Sports?? NBA 2K3 's AI is horrendous. No help D, off the ball movement, NOTHING. ESPN has to be improved 100x fold if it wants to compete with the other basketball games.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

LOL!, and what other basketball game had great AI, good help d, and off the ball movement. ID, but certainly not Live.

[noa999]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
JayH1285 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I've been playing Sega for the past two years, but I don't really see how it's an accurate representation of basketball. It's so hard to play a team game, because there is no movement off the ball. Only team you can accurately represent is the Celtics since Walker bricks all his 3's in real life and the game, and you can have Pierce take it by himself while everybody else watches. However there is absolutely no way to simulate the team game that the Kings and Mavs play. When I'm backing my my man down with Webber, it's so frusterating to have nobody cutting to the hoop. When I saw Live's 10 man capture, I decided to switch games this year, because the Sega game is just too slow. It my be realistic, but it's a sim of only one type of basketball, and the Celtics bore me.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

so true. What happened to Sega Sports?? NBA 2K3 's AI is horrendous. No help D, off the ball movement, NOTHING. ESPN has to be improved 100x fold if it wants to compete with the other basketball games.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

LOL!, and what other basketball game had great AI, good help d, and off the ball movement. ID, but certainly not Live.

[noa999]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
JayH1285 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I've been playing Sega for the past two years, but I don't really see how it's an accurate representation of basketball. It's so hard to play a team game, because there is no movement off the ball. Only team you can accurately represent is the Celtics since Walker bricks all his 3's in real life and the game, and you can have Pierce take it by himself while everybody else watches. However there is absolutely no way to simulate the team game that the Kings and Mavs play. When I'm backing my my man down with Webber, it's so frusterating to have nobody cutting to the hoop. When I saw Live's 10 man capture, I decided to switch games this year, because the Sega game is just too slow. It my be realistic, but it's a sim of only one type of basketball, and the Celtics bore me.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

so true. What happened to Sega Sports?? NBA 2K3 's AI is horrendous. No help D, off the ball movement, NOTHING. ESPN has to be improved 100x fold if it wants to compete with the other basketball games.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

LOL!, and what other basketball game had great AI, good help d, and off the ball movement. ID, but certainly not Live.

[23]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LarryBird said:
You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


You are making up stuff about the game. There is no off the backboard passes. Show me one video, interview statement, picture, or any kind of proof of where this is happening. You can't!! I have seen plenty of behind the back passes in teh NBA. Even Chris Webber can do that. I think VC said only the good passers can do this kinda stuff. You haven't even played the game yet, and you are calling it arcadey, but you don't have real proof. Wait until the game comes out first, and stop bashing games before you get to play. VC fixed the speed because people complained it was too slow, and it didn't make it an arcade game because it went back to the speed like it was in 2k2.

As for Live, I'm pre-ordering it tomorrow along with espn.

[23]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LarryBird said:
You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


You are making up stuff about the game. There is no off the backboard passes. Show me one video, interview statement, picture, or any kind of proof of where this is happening. You can't!! I have seen plenty of behind the back passes in teh NBA. Even Chris Webber can do that. I think VC said only the good passers can do this kinda stuff. You haven't even played the game yet, and you are calling it arcadey, but you don't have real proof. Wait until the game comes out first, and stop bashing games before you get to play. VC fixed the speed because people complained it was too slow, and it didn't make it an arcade game because it went back to the speed like it was in 2k2.

As for Live, I'm pre-ordering it tomorrow along with espn.

[23]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LarryBird said:
You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


You are making up stuff about the game. There is no off the backboard passes. Show me one video, interview statement, picture, or any kind of proof of where this is happening. You can't!! I have seen plenty of behind the back passes in teh NBA. Even Chris Webber can do that. I think VC said only the good passers can do this kinda stuff. You haven't even played the game yet, and you are calling it arcadey, but you don't have real proof. Wait until the game comes out first, and stop bashing games before you get to play. VC fixed the speed because people complained it was too slow, and it didn't make it an arcade game because it went back to the speed like it was in 2k2.

As for Live, I'm pre-ordering it tomorrow along with espn.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LarryBird said:
You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No, I think you're confusing a slow game pace with "simulation basketball". NBA 2k3 was far from a simulation. It didn't have the AI to justify itself as a sim, IMHO. MAYBE ESPN NBA Basketball will be different. As long as the AI uses all the fancy stuff in an appropriate way, there's nothing wrong with giving more control to the player. Point is, the AI has to be damn good at choosing the right time to do all this stuff, or it's worthless.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LarryBird said:
You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No, I think you're confusing a slow game pace with "simulation basketball". NBA 2k3 was far from a simulation. It didn't have the AI to justify itself as a sim, IMHO. MAYBE ESPN NBA Basketball will be different. As long as the AI uses all the fancy stuff in an appropriate way, there's nothing wrong with giving more control to the player. Point is, the AI has to be damn good at choosing the right time to do all this stuff, or it's worthless.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LarryBird said:
You say that 2K will never go "arcadey", but what about the new "passing" system, with the behing the back and off the backboard passes and all that? What the hell is that? I know, the most "arcadey" thing to happen to basketball games since NBA Street.

Live learned their lesson last year and switched back to a Sim style of play. VC, stupidly, decided to fix what wasn't broke and now speed up and arcadify their game.... Last year I would never have thought I'd hear myself say that (or read myself type it, for that matter) but I will not buy NBA 2K this year.... Live appears to be where it's at.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No, I think you're confusing a slow game pace with "simulation basketball". NBA 2k3 was far from a simulation. It didn't have the AI to justify itself as a sim, IMHO. MAYBE ESPN NBA Basketball will be different. As long as the AI uses all the fancy stuff in an appropriate way, there's nothing wrong with giving more control to the player. Point is, the AI has to be damn good at choosing the right time to do all this stuff, or it's worthless.

[noa999]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

The funny thing is that 75% of those "fancy" passes were in 2k3, you guys just didn't play it enough to notice.

[noa999]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

The funny thing is that 75% of those "fancy" passes were in 2k3, you guys just didn't play it enough to notice.

[noa999]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

The funny thing is that 75% of those "fancy" passes were in 2k3, you guys just didn't play it enough to notice.

[BlueDevilsFan]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
noa999 said:
The funny thing is that 75% of those "fancy" passes were in 2k3, you guys just didn't play it enough to notice.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No they weren't. I played hours of 2K3 and didn't see anything that looked remotely as over-the-top and goofy as the behind-back passes I keep seeing in the preview videos of 2K this year.

To the guy who started this thread initially- nice post. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say (or at least some of it remains to be seen) but it was well said without being over-inflammatory.

I also agree with neovsmatrix - 2K3 was a far cry from a simulation. IMO (and I was a HUGE 2K1 and 2K2 fan) it was just slow and boring. I could never get how all the so-called basketball experts in here could automatically equate SLOW with SIM. Live was an even further cry from a sim, but at least it was fun to play and never seemed to pretend to be anything that it wasn't. As I have posted earlier, I didn't get to play enough ID to be able to pass judgement on it, so I won't.

(NOTE: Sega [censored you naughty boy], save your breath on calling me out for the above paragraph. Nothing you say will make a lick of difference in changing my mind).

I'm justing hoping somebody, anybody will step up to the plate this year with a sim game worth playing for an entire year.

[BlueDevilsFan]

Re: Live will be better than ESPN next year, if not this year...here\'s why

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
noa999 said:
The funny thing is that 75% of those "fancy" passes were in 2k3, you guys just didn't play it enough to notice.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No they weren't. I played hours of 2K3 and didn't see anything that looked remotely as over-the-top and goofy as the behind-back passes I keep seeing in the preview videos of 2K this year.

To the guy who started this thread initially- nice post. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say (or at least some of it remains to be seen) but it was well said without being over-inflammatory.

I also agree with neovsmatrix - 2K3 was a far cry from a simulation. IMO (and I was a HUGE 2K1 and 2K2 fan) it was just slow and boring. I could never get how all the so-called basketball experts in here could automatically equate SLOW with SIM. Live was an even further cry from a sim, but at least it was fun to play and never seemed to pretend to be anything that it wasn't. As I have posted earlier, I didn't get to play enough ID to be able to pass judgement on it, so I won't.

(NOTE: Sega [censored you naughty boy], save your breath on calling me out for the above paragraph. Nothing you say will make a lick of difference in changing my mind).

I'm justing hoping somebody, anybody will step up to the plate this year with a sim game worth playing for an entire year.