ID isn't yet a sim

[Blue_Monkey]

A few little things bring it down. The very few free throws. It's not just that you don't get to to the line, but the free throws dictate the pace of real NBA basketball. Shot amount stats, drives etc. This isn't yet correct in ID 2003 and takes IMO the sim aspect out right away.

Bad rebounding. As you know, offensive rebounding isn't right. But it's not just that. Pretty much every game the big guys that play most of the time get huge rebounding stats. i.e. if I let J. O'Neal run around doing what he likes, he'll always get 20+ rebounds. This comes from hardly any long rebounds. Practically every rebound drops only to the reach of the big guys.

And the game has hardly any really flowing animations (doesn't mean the general animation flow), like a guy driving and then reaching for the lay up. This animation is in the game but it's too rare and doesn't really work the way it should. The driving player doesn't drive over the defender to get to the hoop and then trying to score. Think of this animation with the defender fouling or just trying to do something to stop the driving player, and the game has really earned its name. The flow I mean is almost only lacking in driving, post play fights and battling from possession. There just isn't enough animation to make it look real. Now the game still screams all over the place "I'm just a game, they didn't have time or skill to get enough animations and make the movement look really flowing."

I enjoy ID but the above things annoy me when playing. I can't just forget them and force myself to think it's not a big deal(like a fanboy), they are. Those faults take serious fun away, they show me that the game is still too incomplete. ID has many sim aspects and fortunately does many of them well but the things I mentioned take the complete title of a sim away from it.

[aholbert32]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
A few little things bring it down. The very few free throws. It's not just that you don't get to to the line, but the free throws dictate the pace of real NBA basketball. Shot amount stats, drives etc. This isn't yet correct in ID 2003 and takes IMO the sim aspect out right away.

Bad rebounding. As you know, offensive rebounding isn't right. But it's not just that. Pretty much every game the big guys that play most of the time get huge rebounding stats. i.e. if I let J. O'Neal run around doing what he likes, he'll always get 20+ rebounds. This comes from hardly any long rebounds. Practically every rebound drops only to the reach of the big guys.

And the game has hardly any really flowing animations (doesn't mean the general animation flow), like a guy driving and then reaching for the lay up. This animation is in the game but it's too rare and doesn't really work the way it should. The driving player doesn't drive over the defender to get to the hoop and then trying to score. Think of this animation with the defender fouling or just trying to do something to stop the driving player, and the game has really earned its name. The flow I mean is almost only lacking in driving, post play fights and battling from possession. There just isn't enough animation to make it look real. Now the game still screams all over the place "I'm just a game, they didn't have time or skill to get enough animations and make the movement look really flowing."

I enjoy ID but the above things annoy me when playing. I can't just forget them and force myself to think it's not a big deal(like a fanboy), they are. Those faults take serious fun away, they show me that the game is still too incomplete. ID has many sim aspects and fortunately does many of them well but the things I mentioned take the complete title of a sim away from it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I totally agree

[aholbert32]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
A few little things bring it down. The very few free throws. It's not just that you don't get to to the line, but the free throws dictate the pace of real NBA basketball. Shot amount stats, drives etc. This isn't yet correct in ID 2003 and takes IMO the sim aspect out right away.

Bad rebounding. As you know, offensive rebounding isn't right. But it's not just that. Pretty much every game the big guys that play most of the time get huge rebounding stats. i.e. if I let J. O'Neal run around doing what he likes, he'll always get 20+ rebounds. This comes from hardly any long rebounds. Practically every rebound drops only to the reach of the big guys.

And the game has hardly any really flowing animations (doesn't mean the general animation flow), like a guy driving and then reaching for the lay up. This animation is in the game but it's too rare and doesn't really work the way it should. The driving player doesn't drive over the defender to get to the hoop and then trying to score. Think of this animation with the defender fouling or just trying to do something to stop the driving player, and the game has really earned its name. The flow I mean is almost only lacking in driving, post play fights and battling from possession. There just isn't enough animation to make it look real. Now the game still screams all over the place "I'm just a game, they didn't have time or skill to get enough animations and make the movement look really flowing."

I enjoy ID but the above things annoy me when playing. I can't just forget them and force myself to think it's not a big deal(like a fanboy), they are. Those faults take serious fun away, they show me that the game is still too incomplete. ID has many sim aspects and fortunately does many of them well but the things I mentioned take the complete title of a sim away from it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I totally agree

[neovsmatrix]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

Well, you could say the same thing about NBA 2k3. It has its own flaws, and I feel they're far more serious than in ID 2003.

As for not being able to get to the line, I'm of the opinion that you have to WORK to get to the line, which is the way it should be. I've been able to get to the line by pump faking, jab stepping, spinning, using the pivot and taking off-balance jumpshots, pressuring the defense to slap the ball away from you, etc. Now I'm getting to the line more often and so is the AI. I've had games where I'd have teams shooting around 20 free throws EACH. And the rebounding becomes more realistic as a result. I think the game allows for the user to dictate how they want to play the game, and it doesn't FORCE you into a sim, but you can play it as one.

Live 2003 has its own problems. I like how they have more pressure applied to the ballhandler, and defenders will meet the ball handler near halfcourt, and I really like the WAY you have to play D in the game. Problem is, there is no set defensive philosophy in the game, the defensive options are terrible and extremely limited, the AI doesn't work the ball around, use screens, etc. and teams just don't seem to play towards their particular style. I'll admit though, that I haven't given it as much time as I would like, but that's largely due to the frustratingly absurd FG%, coupled with the absurd blocking and stealing. It's just too frustrating to play. I might spend more time on it later and see if it gets better, but right now, I just think the game's nothing but a great concept gone horribly wrong. If a ball's within a few feet of the defender, it's stolen.

ID 2003 has a similar problem, and I would like to see deflections implemented in the game, but to me it is the most sim-like of any b-ball title released so far. I do think there should be a bit more sensitivity to contact in the game, and more fouls called as a result. I'd like to see more pressure applied by the defense as well. I just don't see any full court presses in the game. I thought I saw it once, but I haven't seen it in a very long time. When teams are down a large deficit, they should try using the full court press. Also, I would like to see better substitution patterns as far as bench players playing during a blowout, etc. More impact on stamina from back-to-back games, etc.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

Well, you could say the same thing about NBA 2k3. It has its own flaws, and I feel they're far more serious than in ID 2003.

As for not being able to get to the line, I'm of the opinion that you have to WORK to get to the line, which is the way it should be. I've been able to get to the line by pump faking, jab stepping, spinning, using the pivot and taking off-balance jumpshots, pressuring the defense to slap the ball away from you, etc. Now I'm getting to the line more often and so is the AI. I've had games where I'd have teams shooting around 20 free throws EACH. And the rebounding becomes more realistic as a result. I think the game allows for the user to dictate how they want to play the game, and it doesn't FORCE you into a sim, but you can play it as one.

Live 2003 has its own problems. I like how they have more pressure applied to the ballhandler, and defenders will meet the ball handler near halfcourt, and I really like the WAY you have to play D in the game. Problem is, there is no set defensive philosophy in the game, the defensive options are terrible and extremely limited, the AI doesn't work the ball around, use screens, etc. and teams just don't seem to play towards their particular style. I'll admit though, that I haven't given it as much time as I would like, but that's largely due to the frustratingly absurd FG%, coupled with the absurd blocking and stealing. It's just too frustrating to play. I might spend more time on it later and see if it gets better, but right now, I just think the game's nothing but a great concept gone horribly wrong. If a ball's within a few feet of the defender, it's stolen.

ID 2003 has a similar problem, and I would like to see deflections implemented in the game, but to me it is the most sim-like of any b-ball title released so far. I do think there should be a bit more sensitivity to contact in the game, and more fouls called as a result. I'd like to see more pressure applied by the defense as well. I just don't see any full court presses in the game. I thought I saw it once, but I haven't seen it in a very long time. When teams are down a large deficit, they should try using the full court press. Also, I would like to see better substitution patterns as far as bench players playing during a blowout, etc. More impact on stamina from back-to-back games, etc.

[FSU4LIFE]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

I absolutely think that ID does not represent the sim aspect of basketball. Really, there is not one video game that does. You can only hope for the closest resemblance to sim bball and that's about it. With that said, ID 2003 is far from being a sim bball title and that is just the truth. I played this game quite a bit and I just don't come away with a feeling that this is what basketball is supposed to be like. The floaty footwork is the most unappealing part of this game in my book. I just don't get a true feel of driving o the basket when I control a player.

Truly, all of the bball titles to hit the consoles come up short in one aspect or another. I just feel that ID 2003 is not sim basketball as Fever is ther furthest thing from sim football.

[FSU4LIFE]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

I absolutely think that ID does not represent the sim aspect of basketball. Really, there is not one video game that does. You can only hope for the closest resemblance to sim bball and that's about it. With that said, ID 2003 is far from being a sim bball title and that is just the truth. I played this game quite a bit and I just don't come away with a feeling that this is what basketball is supposed to be like. The floaty footwork is the most unappealing part of this game in my book. I just don't get a true feel of driving o the basket when I control a player.

Truly, all of the bball titles to hit the consoles come up short in one aspect or another. I just feel that ID 2003 is not sim basketball as Fever is ther furthest thing from sim football.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

To each his own, though I hardly think floaty footwork is a real problem with ID 2003. You're talking about the "feel" of a game, but that doesn't mean squat, IMHO. If you look at the intricacies of an actual NBA gmae, and actually look to see what they do, I think you'd gain a better appreciation for ID 2003. But at the same time, it just may depend on what games you watch, since not one game seems to really cater to all styles of b-ball that's played. In my book, ID 2003's the closest though.

As for NBA 2k3, if you want to talk about the "feel" of an NBA game, I just don't see it in that game. Similar to your complaint about the floaty footwork in ID 2003, I have a problem with the floaty passes in NBA 2k3. And they ARE too slow. Most players do not pass that slowly, unless they're lobbing the ball. They really should have made the quick pass the default pass, and the lob pass be something where the player has to press the button down hard or whatever. Like ID 2003 does. Not to mention there's an incredible sluggishness associated with NBA 2k3, as well as the fact that they completely ignore the distinction between 20 second and full timeouts. I think little details like that add a great deal to a b-ball sim, and ID 2003 is the best at paying attention to details like that. Pushing fouls, blocking fouls, reaching in fouls, etc. actually exist in ID 2003, whereas the majority of those types of fouls do not exist in NBA 2k3. And of course, there's one thing that ID 2003 has completely down. It's the ball physics. They're second to none IMHO.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

To each his own, though I hardly think floaty footwork is a real problem with ID 2003. You're talking about the "feel" of a game, but that doesn't mean squat, IMHO. If you look at the intricacies of an actual NBA gmae, and actually look to see what they do, I think you'd gain a better appreciation for ID 2003. But at the same time, it just may depend on what games you watch, since not one game seems to really cater to all styles of b-ball that's played. In my book, ID 2003's the closest though.

As for NBA 2k3, if you want to talk about the "feel" of an NBA game, I just don't see it in that game. Similar to your complaint about the floaty footwork in ID 2003, I have a problem with the floaty passes in NBA 2k3. And they ARE too slow. Most players do not pass that slowly, unless they're lobbing the ball. They really should have made the quick pass the default pass, and the lob pass be something where the player has to press the button down hard or whatever. Like ID 2003 does. Not to mention there's an incredible sluggishness associated with NBA 2k3, as well as the fact that they completely ignore the distinction between 20 second and full timeouts. I think little details like that add a great deal to a b-ball sim, and ID 2003 is the best at paying attention to details like that. Pushing fouls, blocking fouls, reaching in fouls, etc. actually exist in ID 2003, whereas the majority of those types of fouls do not exist in NBA 2k3. And of course, there's one thing that ID 2003 has completely down. It's the ball physics. They're second to none IMHO.

[wwharton]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

only one person has talked about 2k3...you.

thought this was an ID thread.

[wwharton]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

only one person has talked about 2k3...you.

thought this was an ID thread.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

What's your point? I'm comparing it with ALL the other major b-ball titles out. They all have their flaws, but as far as I'm concerned ID 2003 is the most sim-like of the bunch.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

What's your point? I'm comparing it with ALL the other major b-ball titles out. They all have their flaws, but as far as I'm concerned ID 2003 is the most sim-like of the bunch.

[Court_vision]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
A few little things bring it down. The very few free throws. It's not just that you don't get to to the line, but the free throws dictate the pace of real NBA basketball. Shot amount stats, drives etc. This isn't yet correct in ID 2003 and takes IMO the sim aspect out right away.

Bad rebounding. As you know, offensive rebounding isn't right. But it's not just that. Pretty much every game the big guys that play most of the time get huge rebounding stats. i.e. if I let J. O'Neal run around doing what he likes, he'll always get 20+ rebounds. This comes from hardly any long rebounds. Practically every rebound drops only to the reach of the big guys.

And the game has hardly any really flowing animations (doesn't mean the general animation flow), like a guy driving and then reaching for the lay up. This animation is in the game but it's too rare and doesn't really work the way it should. The driving player doesn't drive over the defender to get to the hoop and then trying to score. Think of this animation with the defender fouling or just trying to do something to stop the driving player, and the game has really earned its name. The flow I mean is almost only lacking in driving, post play fights and battling from possession. There just isn't enough animation to make it look real. Now the game still screams all over the place "I'm just a game, they didn't have time or skill to get enough animations and make the movement look really flowing."

I enjoy ID but the above things annoy me when playing. I can't just forget them and force myself to think it's not a big deal(like a fanboy), they are. Those faults take serious fun away, they show me that the game is still too incomplete. ID has many sim aspects and fortunately does many of them well but the things I mentioned take the complete title of a sim away from it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Can't agree on the flow.

Agree TOTALLY on the rebounding. It's a big negative...and ID2002 didn't have the problem, which makes it even more frustrating.

PF and C's get way too many boards.

I have played a few games recently with my team settings at LAX and fast break at LAX. Only then am I getting SF's with 6-8 boards a game.

[Court_vision]

Re: ID isn\'t yet a sim

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
A few little things bring it down. The very few free throws. It's not just that you don't get to to the line, but the free throws dictate the pace of real NBA basketball. Shot amount stats, drives etc. This isn't yet correct in ID 2003 and takes IMO the sim aspect out right away.

Bad rebounding. As you know, offensive rebounding isn't right. But it's not just that. Pretty much every game the big guys that play most of the time get huge rebounding stats. i.e. if I let J. O'Neal run around doing what he likes, he'll always get 20+ rebounds. This comes from hardly any long rebounds. Practically every rebound drops only to the reach of the big guys.

And the game has hardly any really flowing animations (doesn't mean the general animation flow), like a guy driving and then reaching for the lay up. This animation is in the game but it's too rare and doesn't really work the way it should. The driving player doesn't drive over the defender to get to the hoop and then trying to score. Think of this animation with the defender fouling or just trying to do something to stop the driving player, and the game has really earned its name. The flow I mean is almost only lacking in driving, post play fights and battling from possession. There just isn't enough animation to make it look real. Now the game still screams all over the place "I'm just a game, they didn't have time or skill to get enough animations and make the movement look really flowing."

I enjoy ID but the above things annoy me when playing. I can't just forget them and force myself to think it's not a big deal(like a fanboy), they are. Those faults take serious fun away, they show me that the game is still too incomplete. ID has many sim aspects and fortunately does many of them well but the things I mentioned take the complete title of a sim away from it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Can't agree on the flow.

Agree TOTALLY on the rebounding. It's a big negative...and ID2002 didn't have the problem, which makes it even more frustrating.

PF and C's get way too many boards.

I have played a few games recently with my team settings at LAX and fast break at LAX. Only then am I getting SF's with 6-8 boards a game.