Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

[Vince]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

You're right about everything...

...except saying Amare would hang with Barkley, Malone and McHale. I like Amare (and contrary to what it may seem, I like Nash,too), but them big boys from the 80's would take the kid to school.

And you don't think he couldn't?

C'mon. I understand people are partial to the 80's, but the guy is a talent like there hasn't been since Kemp.

[Air23]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

And what happened to Kemp?

[billmatic]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

saying the Suns can hang with the showtime Lakers is more than a stretch. the Suns aren't even the best team in the league today, so to mention them with one of the top 5 teams of all time is foolishness.

and as far as Amare goes, I think he could give anyone problems, but to say he'd have a field day against some of the greatest PF's of all time? give me a break.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

What happened to Kemp? What are you talking about? Are you actually saying that Amare will fade out of the league because of illegitimate children and weight problems? Amare has some of the best work ethic I've ever seen from anyone.

And to Billmatic, I dont think he'd have a field day, but he certainly wouldnt be manhandled like some think.

[Yosemite Dan]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

Although I find these time warp arguments incredibly silly, this one takes the cake, you're comparing a 3rd year kid with past players presumably in thier prime. A fairer comparison would be with what all those players were like in thier 3rd year compared to Amare as no one knows how good Amare will be in his prime.

Being an older guy on this board, I like to reminisce about the 80"s but today's NBA is a more physical game and guys like Kareem and McHale would have a much tougher time competing now if they didn't gain some serious weight. Alot of these stars were beanpoles and would be like pinballs in the paint with some of these behemoths playing now. It's a natural progression in sports. Golfers hit farther, Tennis players hit harder and the NFL,NBA and NHL have bigger,wider bodies competing. Guys like Steeler linebacker Jack Lambert has said that the 70's Steelers would not make the playoffs in today's NFL. The players are just too big and strong and fast.

Anybody really think MJ would have been as effective if he he didn't put on about 20 lbs of muscle a few years into his career. With all due respect to the old stars someone like McHale or Parrish would have major trouble containing a much stronger Amare.

[kuruption]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

You're right about everything...

...except saying Amare would hang with Barkley, Malone and McHale. I like Amare (and contrary to what it may seem, I like Nash,too), but them big boys from the 80's would take the kid to school.

ur opinion , its all hypothetical . unless it can be proven dont state it as a fact . im not sure if he can or cant and neither are you . i will say that i dont like how everyone states "everything was better back in the days" , that nostalgic factor that clouds your judgement is horrible. sound like a bunch of old football players trying to hang on to your glory days.
10 years from now you same guys are going to be saying the same thing. (insert random future player) would be a scrub in the 2000s.

[SonicMage]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

With all due respect to the old stars someone like McHale or Parrish would have major trouble containing a much stronger Amare.

True, but the same applies in the opposite direction, for different reasons. Those Celtics knew where to put the ball and when, the ultimate in offensive awareness.

What a game that would be between those Celts and these Suns (with Amare), though, huh? 250 points scored in that game, no question.

[RockinDaMike]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

I don't think that many guys from the 80's in their 4th year in the nba at the age of 23 did what Amare has done. I'm not gonna say he's better but people are taking an entire career of a legandary player and comparing it to the 4 seasons that Amare has played. I won't even compare him until he's fully done or atleast a full on Veteran. I one like the play of the past, but hey if you like to live in the past go ahead but i won't let it ruin my love for the sport today.

As far as MVP talk I still think its Nash, i don't see really from any of the top 2 teams in each division other than Iverson/Lebron thats' really taken control of their entire team. OF course Duncan is there too but that team has been intact for years, Nash pretty much got a brand new team working like clockwork as if they were together for years like the Spurs. Only an MVP can do that

[sense]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

Although I find these time warp arguments incredibly silly, this one takes the cake, you're comparing a 3rd year kid with past players presumably in thier prime. A fairer comparison would be with what all those players were like in thier 3rd year compared to Amare as no one knows how good Amare will be in his prime.

Being an older guy on this board, I like to reminisce about the 80"s but today's NBA is a more physical game and guys like Kareem and McHale would have a much tougher time competing now if they didn't gain some serious weight. Alot of these stars were beanpoles and would be like pinballs in the paint with some of these behemoths playing now. It's a natural progression in sports. Golfers hit farther, Tennis players hit harder and the NFL,NBA and NHL have bigger,wider bodies competing. Guys like Steeler linebacker Jack Lambert has said that the 70's Steelers would not make the playoffs in today's NFL. The players are just too big and strong and fast.

Anybody really think MJ would have been as effective if he he didn't put on about 20 lbs of muscle a few years into his career. With all due respect to the old stars someone like McHale or Parrish would have major trouble containing a much stronger Amare.

Not to get off subject but i TOTALLY DISAGREE about the league today is more physical. Back then you could get away with murder and nothing would be called. If you went to the hole against any of the physical teams, Those guys would put you on your back......Flagrent fouls was nothing back then. Plus (somebody mentioned it) No hand checking, so now it's more easy to navigate to the rim.

(Back on subject) I think Nash is a top 5 canidate for Mvp. I think This season Chauncey is the best point in the league buy a little
and let's stop comparing the today Phoenix Suns (or last years) to the 80 lakers. The two names shouldn't be in the same sentence. You can't compare a team who's won ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to a team thats a dynasty and argueably one of the best teams ever.

(side note) i'll take the 93' Suns over the 05' Suns any day.

[Sarah]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

Yes I'm aware of the 80s style of play, I've seen many games on ESPN classic. Believe it or not, Amare doesn't just dunk. He's got a nice midrange jumper and a little jump hook that no one can stop. If anything, Amare would probably be more dominant in the 80s. Amare shot about 75% from the FT line too, he knows how to shoot.

The only way reason why he can do all those things is because not many people know how to defend in the NBA today. The best that we have now is Ben Wallace who in my opinion is another version of Charles Oakley in this era. And Charles was just considered an above average defender of that era, not close to becoming the best defender. Sure Ben has the stats in blocks, but even the likes of Malone or Barkley cannot abused him the low post not even on his first year in the NBA.

It's not that I don't appreciate Amare or something, he is good in this era and I won't doubt that he will make some noise if he played in the 80's, but dominant is not exactly the word I would used if he played in the 80's. The ESPN classic can only show you the game but not the atmosphere or the quality of the NBA back then in general offensively and defensively. The playoffs back then from the the 2nd round up to the conference finals is like watching last years finals (mostly not all). Ever wonder why the NBA was so popular in the past than today? Now the NBA is like 2 steps ahead of NHL. Even Stern gave NBA a 6 out of ten score in one of his interview at fox sports or something. Even he knows the NBA today doesn't posses the quality of the NBA in the past. If Amare will be named as one of the 50 greatest players of all time, I would definitely say he has what it takes to become one of the most dominant players in any era of the NBA not just his. Though right now only Duncan and Shaq has that chance, either one of them or both.

[sense]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

^^ Well said

[SonicMage]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

The playoffs back then from the the 2nd round up to the conference finals is like watching last years finals (mostly not all). Ever wonder why the NBA was so popular in the past than today?

Wait....first you compare the playoffs from the 80's to last year's finals and then say thats why it was popular? Last year's finals was one of the worst rated (and therefore least popular) of all time, even though it went to a game seven. The reason why the 80's were so popular for basketball was the immense amount of scoring, plain and simple.

[Vince]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

ur opinion , its all hypothetical . unless it can be proven dont state it as a fact . im not sure if he can or cant and neither are you . i will say that i dont like how everyone states "everything was better back in the days" , that nostalgic factor that clouds your judgement is horrible. sound like a bunch of old football players trying to hang on to your glory days.
10 years from now you same guys are going to be saying the same thing. (insert random future player) would be a scrub in the 2000s.

[poster]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

No way in hell dude. FYI I said 25 REBOUNDS per game not points if that's what you're thinking. Wilt was 7'1" 275 lbs, definitely not stronger than Shaq.

And every ounce of it was muscle unlike Shaq. Yes he was stronger. Doesnt matter what era it was he was generations ahead of his time physically. With todays training technology it wouldnt even be funny. From what I read he was a track star at Carolina. 7'1" and running track. Wilt would dominate in todays game and any generations game. Along with Jordan they are the best players ever.

[23]

Re: Nash Is Still The MVP In My Eyes...

ur opinion , its all hypothetical . unless it can be proven dont state it as a fact . im not sure if he can or cant and neither are you . i will say that i dont like how everyone states "everything was better back in the days" , that nostalgic factor that clouds your judgement is horrible. sound like a bunch of old football players trying to hang on to your glory days.
10 years from now you same guys are going to be saying the same thing. (insert random future player) would be a scrub in the 2000s.

If an unathletic, hurt, out of shape, 40 year old MJ can come in the L now with 3 years off and score 20/5 on 45% shooting, many of these fellas would have a tough time stopping all time greats just like him in their primes.