The transformation of Kobe Bryant

[Brankles]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

And Brankles...the fact that you keep ranting about a players attitude and arroagance, while beating your chest on a website and calling peoples opinions insulting is actually pretty funny. Yeah...I bet you would be REAL humble if you had Kobe's size and skillset.

Wow, that's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life.

[Brankles]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

This post is basically what I was trying to get at but it took me a few posts to do so. I think the dismissal of the MJ comparisons is a weak attempt at preserving an image of MJ that some people want to hold onto. Don't get me wrong, Jordan is the greatest player this league has ever seen. But to dismiss Kobe as having a chance to unseat MJ makes one sound very...old. Sort of a "my generation is better than your generation" mentality.

It is the same thing in golf. There are people who, even when Tiger beats Nicklaus' majors record, will forever say Jack was a better golfer for a myriad of foolish reasons. I'm not saying that Kobe will end up being a better player than MJ, I just think that he has the best chance to do so out of anyone out there, Lebron included. The parallels are too obvious to ignore. If MJ himself is okay with helping Kobe becoming a better player, fully knowing it may make him a better player than he was, who are we to say he's not?

But unlike Woods to Nicklaus, Kobe hasn't even come close to accomplishing what Jordan did. Jordan's career sloped upwards, as far as team success and MVPs have gone. Kobe's seems to be going downwards... and I don't see him ever winning a championship again unless he gets another superstar big man beside him.

Believe it or not, not many other big names want to play with Kobe, and I think that will hurt him in the long run as well.

[sroz39]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

But unlike Woods to Nicklaus, Kobe hasn't even come close to accomplishing what Jordan did. Jordan's career sloped upwards, as far as team success and MVPs have gone. Kobe's seems to be going downwards... and I don't see him ever winning a championship again unless he gets another superstar big man beside him.

Believe it or not, not many other big names want to play with Kobe, and I think that will hurt him in the long run as well.

I would say three championships is an accomplishment. Alot of Kobe detractors say that Kobe would not have won those championships without Shaq. Fine, I'll buy it. But to be fair, Shaq would not have won those championships without Kobe. Kobe was just as big a part of the success as Shaq was.

And I'm not saying that Kobe's career and Jordan's will be identical. That's impossible. All I'm saying is that they are very similiar in alot of different ways. All it's going to take is the development of an overrated sidekick a la Scottie Pippen to develop on the Lakers. Odom can be that overrated sidekick, but that has more to do with Odom than Kobe.

[Streets]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

2 things...

#1 Teamates knowing a system and teamates not knowing a system are two different things. These are not the same teammates. And no it wasn't "screw the organization, screw the zenmaster"...Phil told Kobe to shoot more until they got the hang of things, which is probably the definitive opinion on what the Lakers needed from Bryant at the time, IMO. When Phil asked him to defer, he deferred...and almost knocked off the Suns doing it.

BTW, It occurs to me....Does that completely unselfish series counter-balance the one playoff series he was over-aggressive?

Fair enough. Though I doubt Phil thinks that Kobe jackin up shots is the best shot at the Lakers doing anything, besides going to the lottery. Since, as you talk about later, he's seen MJ do it for years with zero results. And yeah, Kobe did defer in the Suns series, and look what happened! They almost knocked them off. I maintain to this day, had kobe not taken off BOTH his facillitator hat, and his shooting hat, and become an over-paid spectator, the Lakers would've won that series. So yes, like I said... same teammates, same results. Last year and this year I feel/felt as if Kobe should of passed the ball more, and both times that he has done it, you saw the results. If it was indeed Phil telling Kobe to jack up shots, then I put the blame on him, but I coulda swore Phil was trying to get Kobe to pass more and be more well-rounded and it wasnt until the playoffs that he changed.

#2. Yes Deserved. For 8 years Kobe wasn't being branded as selfish...he was the leagues golden boy, operating like a good little soldier in the triangle, and was always one of the top assist men for SG's during their mini-dynasty. The hate was born from his arrogance, the perception that he was a spoiled beyotch, and the fact that he was getting too much props...not any glaring flaw in his game. As Brankles said, he wasn't the most chummy guy to be around. But detractors still harp on one doggone playoff series, and seem to use 1.5 seasons (out of 11) of ultra-aggression to define him as a ballplayer, which IMO, is flat-out untrue.

MJ's biggest motivation coming into the league was to show everyone what he could do..to prove he was an animal. He wanted to fry the enemy, both physically and mentally. The same applies to AI. Why is this concept suddenly "evil" when it comes to Kobe? When Michael got tired of the "MJ's a scorer, Magic is a winner" shots he adjusted his game, but do we hold Mike accountable for those first 6-7 seasons? Hell naw. Or what about Wilt? Scoring a hundred just because he could? Get that guy out of the Hall! The Dream was determined to whup the Admirals behind after he was beaten out for the MVP...was the Dream wrong for wanting people to see he was the better player? Well...It was if you were a San Antonio fan because homeboy put an absolutely murdering on Robinson in that post-season. They didn't run their normal offense, they fed him for 48 minutes. When did individual pride become a terrible trait to have, especially when you've put that pride aside for 8 years? Yeah, I know, Kobe doesn't compare to those guys yada, yada, yada...but the point is that tons of all-time greats took pride in dominating their opponents, whether offensively or defensively. An elite guy, forced to play second fiddle while playing with an even bigger star is a terrible guy for wanting to prove himself?

...It's not like he flat out admitted that there were times where he stopped caring about winning and losing, and only balled to maintain his image.

BTW, how many of you were damning T-Mac for wanting to get out from under VC's shadow in TOR, right after a deep playoff push? I wouldn't call that "ego" or "sense of entitlement"..the brotha just wanted to establish himself.

And Brankles...the fact that you keep ranting about a players attitude and arroagance, while beating your chest on a website and calling peoples opinions insulting is actually pretty funny. Yeah...I bet you would be REAL humble if you had Kobe's size and skillset.

Now, here i still have to disagree. "Well MJ did it, so it's ok..." No, I'm sorry. I don't give MJ a pass for playing selfish. I do give him mad props for changing his game, and I coulda swore I gave Kobe the same. You claim that people excused MJ's 6-7 seasons, yet you just said that people criticized him (Magic is a winner, MJ is a scorer). So which is it? Now, if you're talking about the world giving MJ props today, well... the winners write the history books. MJ is absolved because he was the #1 on 6 championship teams. #2 on the 3 teams, only makes Kobe look like an ungrateful recepient of a really good situation, and the people are not going to give him the same pass. He wins a chip as the #1, just ONE chip, and I guarentee you that people look at him differently (Hell, the already are, if you look at the article). There's nothing wrong with personal pride, rivalries, or what have you, as long as it is whats best for the team. Hakeem doing the admiral... that was cool rockets decided it was their best chance to win. Rockets win. Gilbert saying its me against portland and I'm going to torch them. Not cool. Both personal pride situations, but not every situation is comparable.

[Brankles]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

I would say three championships is an accomplishment. Alot of Kobe detractors say that Kobe would not have won those championships without Shaq. Fine, I'll buy it. But to be fair, Shaq would not have won those championships without Kobe. Kobe was just as big a part of the success as Shaq was.

And I'm not saying that Kobe's career and Jordan's will be identical. That's impossible. All I'm saying is that they are very similiar in alot of different ways. All it's going to take is the development of an overrated sidekick a la Scottie Pippen to develop on the Lakers. Odom can be that overrated sidekick, but that has more to do with Odom than Kobe.

Well, if anything, Kobe was the sidekick to those 3 rings the Lakers won. Shaq won Finals MVP all three years. That makes him more like Pippen than like Jordan, which is still not a bad thing, Jordan wouldn't have won without talented teammates.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

Yeah there doesn't need to be articles on Bryant's "transformation" but this thread really revealed something about how some Bryant detractors really feel and how they will never change their view unless Bryant does something significant in the post season- which is how it should be really.

The man finally looks like he starting to get it, and then somebody blasts him for the amount of time it took.

[aa2ba]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

Yeah there doesn't need to be articles on Bryant's "transformation" but this thread really revealed something about how some Bryant detractors really feel and how they will never change their view unless Bryant does something significant in the post season- which is how it should be really.

The man finally looks like he starting to get it, and then somebody blasts him for the amount of time it took.

Yeah, who really cares how long it took? At least he gets it.

[ehh]

Re: The transformation of Kobe Bryant

I used to hate Kobe, now I love him. I went down the same road with AI.