Larry Bird best SF of all time?

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

The "Small Forward" position like Bird played doesn't really exist today. I think guys who isolate and dish/create play a different game than Bird did. His game was built off of down screens and him popping up and shooting or passing. He also excelled at running the break despite of his lack of athleticism.

Today it is a different game so saying who is best at this position is really hard to clarify but some guys who played well were Dr. J, Bernard King, Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry.

Anyway I don't think Pippen is close to Bird.

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Lebron will not be better then Larry Bird by the end of his career. He needs MVPs and championships. He also needs to consistently have his team at the top of the standings. If he stays in Cleveland it'll be hard to achieve these things. Now if he was in the west he'd definitely have some championships under his belt by the end of the day.

Let's put that asside though and look at Lebron in the clutch. Yes, there are times when he can pull it off but he's very inconsistent and more often then not fades away in the big moments. Bird never had that kind of trouble even early on in his career he was the leader of his team and came away on top in the clutch.

the last time I cheeked he was still only 22, so lets just wait and see, he still has bout 15 years of ball left.

[blackngoldfan]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Everyone calls Jordan the greatest, he made his team better blah blah;
how does a guy who shoots the ball most 99.9% of the time make his
team better? Jordan was a basketball player, one that often pissed off
Doug Collins with his decision making and rebelious attitude; the only
reason Jordan bought into the whole "team thing" was because he
lost the athleticism of his youth and he realized he couldn't carry
a team alone.

Does this scenario sound familiar to anyone? Specifically on the Lakers.

I'm not saying Jordan is not great, are you kidding me?

I'm just saying Jordan seems alot more awsome than anyone today
because he was the first of what we have many today; the only
difference between Tmac, Kobe, Vc, Lebron and Dwade is time a
perfected jumpshot, a great cast, great upper managment and
alot of awards one for being the first of a growing breed.

Can you imagine any of these youngsters in Jordan's era or earlier?

No team could stop any of these players, because if they came in
right with Jordan or before him wheres the game plan? How do you
stop Kobe? Even better yet; imagine Allen Iverson going back to
the mid eighties; thats scary (or even Lebron; he would outmustle
everybody).

Bird was great and all, BUT people seem to forget that he had ...

McKale
Ainge
Parrish
and Dennis Johnson

Because of the cap, there wouldn't have been enough money to go around in todays game. Therefore, it would've been Bird and the gang. Now, how successful do you think Bird would've been if the opposition could throw everything at him and not worry about the role players? If the game was on the line and you ABSOLUTELY KNEW that Bird was getting the ball without an Ainge, McKale, or Parrish to worry about, what would happen? Everybody knew Jordan was getting the ball, but they couldn't stop him.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Why are you guys arguing Lebron vs Bird when Dr. J owns both of them? lol.

And guys really need to stop this "in Jordan's era" stuff. Most of the guys who are in the league now played in Jordan's era. The peak athletes haven't changed as much as people think. It's the average player's athleticism, and the mobility of taller players that has changed. There are plenty of relatively non athletic guys in the league right now who can do plenty without Bron type athleticism. The exceptions back in the day would still be exceptions now. People forget that NBA players from the 70s and 80s were guys that held track, high jump and long jump records.

[Sarah]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Bird was great and all, BUT people seem to forget that he had ...

McKale
Ainge
Parrish
and Dennis Johnson

Because of the cap, there wouldn't have been enough money to go around in todays game. Therefore, it would've been Bird and the gang. Now, how successful do you think Bird would've been if the opposition could throw everything at him and not worry about the role players? If the game was on the line and you ABSOLUTELY KNEW that Bird was getting the ball without an Ainge, McKale, or Parrish to worry about, what would happen? Everybody knew Jordan was getting the ball, but they couldn't stop him.

I doubt Parrish and Mchale would become a part of the top 50 greatest players of all time on thier own either. Bird just like Magic, Jordan, Chamberlain and some others is capable of becoming one of the greatest on thier own because of thier ability to score even with the defense collapsing on them. But I doubt Worthy, Mchale, Pippen, Parish and others is capable of becoming one without someone making things a lot easier for them. But that is just my opinion.

[ehh]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Everyone calls Jordan the greatest, he made his team better blah blah;
how does a guy who shoots the ball most 99.9% of the time make his
team better? Jordan was a basketball player, one that often pissed off
Doug Collins with his decision making and rebelious attitude; the only
reason Jordan bought into the whole "team thing" was because he
lost the athleticism of his youth and he realized he couldn't carry
a team alone.

It's interesting that a guy who averaged over 5 dimes per game for his career was able to "shoot the ball 99.9% of the time".

To say that Jordan didn't make his teammates better is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Hell, before you even get into the basketball aspect of it just look at his work ethic and will to win. He imposed that on all of his teammates, just watch any interview with old teammates and they said how they were afraid to not give 100% effort because of Jordan.

[lbartlett_32]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Bird was great and all, BUT people seem to forget that he had ...

McKale
Ainge
Parrish
and Dennis Johnson

Because of the cap, there wouldn't have been enough money to go around in todays game. Therefore, it would've been Bird and the gang. Now, how successful do you think Bird would've been if the opposition could throw everything at him and not worry about the role players? If the game was on the line and you ABSOLUTELY KNEW that Bird was getting the ball without an Ainge, McKale, or Parrish to worry about, what would happen? Everybody knew Jordan was getting the ball, but they couldn't stop him.

No one forgets that, but you obviuosly forget the Lakers and the Bad Boys. Jordan and the bulls. Ewing and the Knicks. All these were great teams and the Lakers and Celtics always prevailed. As for the other team not knowing if Bird would get the ball is ridiculous. Almost any NBA player that has been interviewed would tell you that Bird was the biggest trash talker in the game and would let it be known that he was getting and would sometimes even explain how, when, and where he was catching and shooting.

[lbartlett_32]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

I'm just saying Jordan seems alot more awsome than anyone today
because he was the first of what we have many today; the only
difference between Tmac, Kobe, Vc, Lebron and Dwade is time a
perfected jumpshot, a great cast, great upper managment and
alot of awards one for being the first of a growing breed.

Can you imagine any of these youngsters in Jordan's era or earlier?

No team could stop any of these players, because if they came in
right with Jordan or before him wheres the game plan? How do you
stop Kobe? Even better yet; imagine Allen Iverson going back to
the mid eighties; thats scary (or even Lebron; he would outmustle
everybody).

Are you kidding me? Lebron would be shutdown because of TEAM defense. Much like what the Spurs play. Kobe could play, but as for A.I. he wouldn't get the calls he does today. You watch almost any late 80's-early 90's game and there are several things that you will see that DOESN'T exist in the NBA

1. Hard fouls that intimidate people and lead to just FT's and not ejections
2. Team D. (See the Spurs and Pistons)
3. Hand Checking (Thank M.J. youngsters)
4. 15 footers (Lebron might get a dunk Ewing like Jordan did, but he would feel it the next time from Mason or Oakley) and most players can't shoot them.
5. No free passes - NBA players are so afraid of getting posterized it's ridiculous.
6. Great teams not just a few players. Lets just take a look at the "Jordan Era and who they beat in the playoffs. Detroit, Indiana, Knicks, Suns (Barkley), Rockets, Sonics, Blazers, and the Jazz.

I would take any of these teams over almost anyone in the league today besides the Spurs and possibly Pistons and C's

7. Tech foul for fast break fouls. This rule only exists cause of M.J. and people grabbing a hold of him before take off.

8. The defense was favored more as far as refs go. A player now can just drive in with his head down, shoulder someone, throw up a shot, and get a foul as the defender stands straight up.

9. Stats were earned and not given

[lbartlett_32]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

the last time I cheeked he was still only 22, so lets just wait and see, he still has bout 15 years of ball left.

He is 23 and if he plays til he is 37 I will be impressed. LOL

[arichzona]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Everyone calls Jordan the greatest, he made his team better blah blah;
how does a guy who shoots the ball most 99.9% of the time make his
team better? Jordan was a basketball player, one that often pissed off
Doug Collins with his decision making and rebelious attitude; the only
reason Jordan bought into the whole "team thing" was because he
lost the athleticism of his youth and he realized he couldn't carry
a team alone.

since someone beat me to the inane 99.9% statement.....Let's address the loss of athleticism as to why he "bought into the whole team thing." First title - 1991....age 29. Not too many top notch athletes lose their athleticism at age 29.

Do some research before you post opinion that you state is fact. After that please show me these statements from Collins about how Jordan repeatedly pissed him off.........With minimal digging I have a quote from collins that stated one of his coaching techniques was to point @ MJ and say "be like him"

[Scottdau]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

There will never be another Larry Bird. That is all I have to say.

[arichzona]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

There will never be another Larry Bird. That is all I have to say.

I didnt like the guy but you are 100% correct. Judging from some of the replies on the board you owuld think that every team in the league has one or two Bird's, Magic's, Dr J's, or MJ's on their current roster.

The older I get, the more I respect just how great the guy was.

[Scottdau]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

I didnt like the guy but you are 100% correct. Judging from some of the replies on the board you owuld think that every team in the league has one or two Bird's, Magic's, Dr J's, or MJ's on their current roster.

The older I get, the more I respect just how great the guy was.

He, Michael and Magic were so clutch. There was nothing better then watching Bird and Magic play in the finals.

[rsnomar05]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Bird was great and all, BUT people seem to forget that he had ...

McKale
Ainge
Parrish
and Dennis Johnson

Because of the cap, there wouldn't have been enough money to go around in todays game. Therefore, it would've been Bird and the gang. Now, how successful do you think Bird would've been if the opposition could throw everything at him and not worry about the role players? If the game was on the line and you ABSOLUTELY KNEW that Bird was getting the ball without an Ainge, McKale, or Parrish to worry about, what would happen? Everybody knew Jordan was getting the ball, but they couldn't stop him.

Seriously? Teams did throw everything they had at Bird, and they still couldn't stop him. In fact, on last second shots, they knew Bird was taking it, and he still hit it.

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[HMcCoy]

Re: Larry Bird best SF of all time?

Lebron will not be better then Larry Bird by the end of his career. He needs MVPs and championships. He also needs to consistently have his team at the top of the standings. If he stays in Cleveland it'll be hard to achieve these things. Now if he was in the west he'd definitely have some championships under his belt by the end of the day.

Let's put that asside though and look at Lebron in the clutch. Yes, there are times when he can pull it off but he's very inconsistent and more often then not fades away in the big moments. Bird never had that kind of trouble even early on in his career he was the leader of his team and came away on top in the clutch.

LeBron currently leads the NBA in 4th quarter scoring and there was that one Piston game last year...what clutch moment have you ever seen where Lebron didn't either shoot or dish the last shot? Some players don't even touch the ball down the stretch...can't remember any times like that for the Cavs..maybe I'm mistaken?

Back on topic, yes Larry was the best SF and will be until Bron wins some chips. Kinda unfair considering the comparitive supporting cast, but it is what it is....