Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

[jod23]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Very much so....the difference is that Jordan could trust his old teammates.

You think if Jordan got doubled in 91 and he flicked a pass underneath the bucket that Horace Grant would miss a layup or a dunk like say Kwame Brown would, or Laettner or Thomas.

Cartwright was a veteran who knew his role. I like Haywood alot but he isnt as consistent as Cartwright was.

Stackhouse is a great player but he is no Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a reliable scorer, Stack seems to pick and choose his nights. Pippen was also one of the best defenders in the league. Stack is just an average defender. He also cant rebound like Pip could.

BJ Armstrong could be relied upon to hit an open jumper, so could Paxson. Same cant be said of Hughes or Lue or Dixon.

The early 90's Bulls had a much better supporting cast than his current Wizards. But Jordan will still put every ounce of energy and heart into every second of every game he has left to try to get his Wiz to the playoffs. I for one, hope he makes it.

[jod23]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Very much so....the difference is that Jordan could trust his old teammates.

You think if Jordan got doubled in 91 and he flicked a pass underneath the bucket that Horace Grant would miss a layup or a dunk like say Kwame Brown would, or Laettner or Thomas.

Cartwright was a veteran who knew his role. I like Haywood alot but he isnt as consistent as Cartwright was.

Stackhouse is a great player but he is no Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a reliable scorer, Stack seems to pick and choose his nights. Pippen was also one of the best defenders in the league. Stack is just an average defender. He also cant rebound like Pip could.

BJ Armstrong could be relied upon to hit an open jumper, so could Paxson. Same cant be said of Hughes or Lue or Dixon.

The early 90's Bulls had a much better supporting cast than his current Wizards. But Jordan will still put every ounce of energy and heart into every second of every game he has left to try to get his Wiz to the playoffs. I for one, hope he makes it.

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

As for the players I mentioned at the bottom neo, I wrote

"Jordan probably falls right in the middle of this group."

That means Jordan ranks in the middle of this group. Meaning I believe he is better than some in the group, and not better than others.

My point about guys like Abdur-Rahim: I honestly believe the Hawks would be no better right now if they traded him for Jordan. Abdur-Rahim produces more at a more important position than Jordan. Glenn Robinson is roughly comparable to Jerry Stackhouse, but not quite as good IMO. Jason Terry may be a little better than Larry Hughes. Beyond that, Atlanta's supporting cast isn't as good as Washington's.

Good post though....I can respect other points of view.

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

As for the players I mentioned at the bottom neo, I wrote

"Jordan probably falls right in the middle of this group."

That means Jordan ranks in the middle of this group. Meaning I believe he is better than some in the group, and not better than others.

My point about guys like Abdur-Rahim: I honestly believe the Hawks would be no better right now if they traded him for Jordan. Abdur-Rahim produces more at a more important position than Jordan. Glenn Robinson is roughly comparable to Jerry Stackhouse, but not quite as good IMO. Jason Terry may be a little better than Larry Hughes. Beyond that, Atlanta's supporting cast isn't as good as Washington's.

Good post though....I can respect other points of view.

[wwharton]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

I think it's kind of a silly comparison b/c the make up of the teams are so different but Terry is A LOT better than Hughes and Ratliff is A LOT better than anyone the Wiz have down low. But you can't really make a comparison of the effect of trading a guy playing SG with a guy playing PF.

As for the Bulls vs the Wiz, the biggest difference is Jordan COULD decide to score whenever he wanted, AI style. He would pick his spots. That's why if the game was close in the fourth qtr the Bulls never lost. At 40 he can't do that anymore. He tries and sometimes does but it's not like before.

Overall that Bulls team D was much, much, much better than the current Wiz too. And Scottie was one of the greatest players of all times.

[wwharton]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

I think it's kind of a silly comparison b/c the make up of the teams are so different but Terry is A LOT better than Hughes and Ratliff is A LOT better than anyone the Wiz have down low. But you can't really make a comparison of the effect of trading a guy playing SG with a guy playing PF.

As for the Bulls vs the Wiz, the biggest difference is Jordan COULD decide to score whenever he wanted, AI style. He would pick his spots. That's why if the game was close in the fourth qtr the Bulls never lost. At 40 he can't do that anymore. He tries and sometimes does but it's not like before.

Overall that Bulls team D was much, much, much better than the current Wiz too. And Scottie was one of the greatest players of all times.

[Alykhan]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I think it's kind of a silly comparison b/c the make up of the teams are so different but Terry is A LOT better than Hughes and Ratliff is A LOT better than anyone the Wiz have down low. But you can't really make a comparison of the effect of trading a guy playing SG with a guy playing PF.

As for the Bulls vs the Wiz, the biggest difference is Jordan COULD decide to score whenever he wanted, AI style. He would pick his spots. That's why if the game was close in the fourth qtr the Bulls never lost. At 40 he can't do that anymore. He tries and sometimes does but it's not like before.

Overall that Bulls team D was much, much, much better than the current Wiz too. And Scottie was one of the greatest players of all times.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I think what you're saying is right.

Did anyone see Jordan post game on TV yesterday?

He was pissed because no one on his team is reliable or even close to good. He tried to express the fact that a lot of his teammates don't seem to put the effort in that is necessary to win a game.

My opinion of Stackhouse has definitely gone down. How can you sit and let your 40 year old teammate outplay you? The guy practically did nothing yesterday and has been doing little as of late.

This comes at an important time of the season where every game for the Wizards is crucial and needs to be won.

You got to feel for MJ. Imagine he had just one more, good, consistant player on his team, instead of Stackhouse. Someone maybe like Dirk Nowitzki or Ray Allen, or a good center or something. Imagine how many wins the Wizards would have by now.

Unless Stackhouse really starts performing before the season's over, my opinion will remain low on him. I used to think he was a great player and a consistant one at that. But lately, he's been playing bad - and at such a crucial time.

He's got to get it together, even if it isn't his fault.

[Alykhan]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I think it's kind of a silly comparison b/c the make up of the teams are so different but Terry is A LOT better than Hughes and Ratliff is A LOT better than anyone the Wiz have down low. But you can't really make a comparison of the effect of trading a guy playing SG with a guy playing PF.

As for the Bulls vs the Wiz, the biggest difference is Jordan COULD decide to score whenever he wanted, AI style. He would pick his spots. That's why if the game was close in the fourth qtr the Bulls never lost. At 40 he can't do that anymore. He tries and sometimes does but it's not like before.

Overall that Bulls team D was much, much, much better than the current Wiz too. And Scottie was one of the greatest players of all times.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I think what you're saying is right.

Did anyone see Jordan post game on TV yesterday?

He was pissed because no one on his team is reliable or even close to good. He tried to express the fact that a lot of his teammates don't seem to put the effort in that is necessary to win a game.

My opinion of Stackhouse has definitely gone down. How can you sit and let your 40 year old teammate outplay you? The guy practically did nothing yesterday and has been doing little as of late.

This comes at an important time of the season where every game for the Wizards is crucial and needs to be won.

You got to feel for MJ. Imagine he had just one more, good, consistant player on his team, instead of Stackhouse. Someone maybe like Dirk Nowitzki or Ray Allen, or a good center or something. Imagine how many wins the Wizards would have by now.

Unless Stackhouse really starts performing before the season's over, my opinion will remain low on him. I used to think he was a great player and a consistant one at that. But lately, he's been playing bad - and at such a crucial time.

He's got to get it together, even if it isn't his fault.

[23]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Same here. stack may not be there after this season if he doesn't get it together. Those other guys aren't following MJ's lead. They suck to simply put it. This still shows how great he is, and his competitive drive.

[23]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Same here. stack may not be there after this season if he doesn't get it together. Those other guys aren't following MJ's lead. They suck to simply put it. This still shows how great he is, and his competitive drive.

[wwharton]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Yeah, it's interesting b/c starting with the trade for Stack it seemed clear that Jordan was trying to put together a modern day version of his Bulls. With his style of play and being from UNC I think he took a liking to Stack. If you look at the team, Stack is Jordan, Jordan is Pippen, Hughes is the big guard like a Ron Harper while Lue and Dixon combine to play a BJ Armstrong/Paxton/Hodges type of role. Getting Oakley and Laettner fits the pattern of big men that are better shooting jump shots than posting up.

I think the idea was for Jordan to leave with that nucleus in tact with the young guys following Stack's lead but they just aren't up to the task.

Another thing about the Pippen vs Stack comparisons... if any of you read the Jordan Rules you'll remember where they talk about Pippen being mad about the Bulls not giving him a contract extension bc they were saving money for Kukoc. Pippen went on a mad scoring spree to prove his worth and Jordan refused to be outscored. There was a stretch of a good 5 games where they'd combine from 60-70 points on average b/c Pippen was taking it whenever he could and Jordan wasn't going to be outdone.

I don't think Stack has this sort of competitive edge or enough talent to make it happen even if he did. Stack's a very good player but Pippen in his prime was much better.

[wwharton]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Yeah, it's interesting b/c starting with the trade for Stack it seemed clear that Jordan was trying to put together a modern day version of his Bulls. With his style of play and being from UNC I think he took a liking to Stack. If you look at the team, Stack is Jordan, Jordan is Pippen, Hughes is the big guard like a Ron Harper while Lue and Dixon combine to play a BJ Armstrong/Paxton/Hodges type of role. Getting Oakley and Laettner fits the pattern of big men that are better shooting jump shots than posting up.

I think the idea was for Jordan to leave with that nucleus in tact with the young guys following Stack's lead but they just aren't up to the task.

Another thing about the Pippen vs Stack comparisons... if any of you read the Jordan Rules you'll remember where they talk about Pippen being mad about the Bulls not giving him a contract extension bc they were saving money for Kukoc. Pippen went on a mad scoring spree to prove his worth and Jordan refused to be outscored. There was a stretch of a good 5 games where they'd combine from 60-70 points on average b/c Pippen was taking it whenever he could and Jordan wasn't going to be outdone.

I don't think Stack has this sort of competitive edge or enough talent to make it happen even if he did. Stack's a very good player but Pippen in his prime was much better.

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

We don't need to get too caught up in comparing Jordan to Abdur-Rahim...I fully understand that it's a tough comparison.

But the question wasn't "Name 10 Small Forwards/Shooting Guards Better Than Jordan". Anytime you compile a list of the best players in the league, you have to compare players across position.

I love the discussion, and can appreciate other people's perspectives. My only request would be instead of arguing against everyone else that gets brought up, why not argue for Jordan?

By what criteria is Jordan still great? I said he's very good, meaning in the top 10% of the league. Many of you maintain that he's still one of the very best. Well, he isn't putting up great stats, just good. He doesn't play great D anymore, just good. He is inconsistent now like he never was before (again, I'm not bashing....the man is 40...this is to be expected). His team is just mediocre in a weak conference, with better players around him than people are willing to admit.

So how do we still define him as great?

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

We don't need to get too caught up in comparing Jordan to Abdur-Rahim...I fully understand that it's a tough comparison.

But the question wasn't "Name 10 Small Forwards/Shooting Guards Better Than Jordan". Anytime you compile a list of the best players in the league, you have to compare players across position.

I love the discussion, and can appreciate other people's perspectives. My only request would be instead of arguing against everyone else that gets brought up, why not argue for Jordan?

By what criteria is Jordan still great? I said he's very good, meaning in the top 10% of the league. Many of you maintain that he's still one of the very best. Well, he isn't putting up great stats, just good. He doesn't play great D anymore, just good. He is inconsistent now like he never was before (again, I'm not bashing....the man is 40...this is to be expected). His team is just mediocre in a weak conference, with better players around him than people are willing to admit.

So how do we still define him as great?

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

By the way, just to show that I'm not just trying to disagree with everyone, you're completely right about the Stackhouse/Pippen comparison.

Stackhouse may have more talent, but Pippen was a much better team player and a much better fit with Jordan.