Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

[Dallasin2K3]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
C Dub is a great player, but it sure does help having Divac, BJ, Peja, Bibby, and Christie as his teammates.

Would they be the same team if you replaced those guys with less talented players at those positions, because of C Dub ? No.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

True, but would they be the same team if you replaced C Dub with a less talented player, because of the other guys? No.

[arenas809]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

The Kings HAVE won without C Dub this year...

they definitely aren't the same team, but point is he's not the whole reason they are what they are, like you could say Shaq is for L.A., MJ for Washington, AI for Phila...

The point of this thread is to name 10 players who skill wise are at the top of their game across the board and do as much for their team as MJ does...

A lot of you equate points to greatness and it doesn't work that way, you have to look at someone's game from top to bottom. As far as I'm concerned players like Kobe/Tmac are the future, but they aren't Jordan caliber until they can make players better and win in the process.

[arenas809]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

The Kings HAVE won without C Dub this year...

they definitely aren't the same team, but point is he's not the whole reason they are what they are, like you could say Shaq is for L.A., MJ for Washington, AI for Phila...

The point of this thread is to name 10 players who skill wise are at the top of their game across the board and do as much for their team as MJ does...

A lot of you equate points to greatness and it doesn't work that way, you have to look at someone's game from top to bottom. As far as I'm concerned players like Kobe/Tmac are the future, but they aren't Jordan caliber until they can make players better and win in the process.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

You said ten players better than Jordan RIGHT NOW. There was no "done more for his team"....no "if the player was on the wizards he'd do the same as MJ"......I DO wear glasses, but I still didnt see it.

I still would take Peja over Jordan.


Oh, throw Shawn Marion in there too.

Marion's stats:

21.4ppg, 9.4rpg, 2.3apg, 1.2bpg. 2.13spg, 44% FG's, 38% 3PT, and 85% FT.

Jordan's stats:

19.7ppg, 5.9rpg, 3.8apg, 0.5bpg, 1.5spg, 44% FG, 29% 3PT, and 81% FT.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

You said ten players better than Jordan RIGHT NOW. There was no "done more for his team"....no "if the player was on the wizards he'd do the same as MJ"......I DO wear glasses, but I still didnt see it.

I still would take Peja over Jordan.


Oh, throw Shawn Marion in there too.

Marion's stats:

21.4ppg, 9.4rpg, 2.3apg, 1.2bpg. 2.13spg, 44% FG's, 38% 3PT, and 85% FT.

Jordan's stats:

19.7ppg, 5.9rpg, 3.8apg, 0.5bpg, 1.5spg, 44% FG, 29% 3PT, and 81% FT.

[Alykhan]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Don't get me wrong though, A.I. has some serious talent.. If he had more discipline and such like some of the better NBA players (like Jordan), he'd be a lot better, though.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

He's too inconsistant. Some nights he's like 12-24 and other nights he's 5-15. He has as many bad nights as good nights.

In the last 10-15 games though, he's been pretty consistant for his team, compared to the rest of his season so far.

[Alykhan]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Don't get me wrong though, A.I. has some serious talent.. If he had more discipline and such like some of the better NBA players (like Jordan), he'd be a lot better, though.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

He's too inconsistant. Some nights he's like 12-24 and other nights he's 5-15. He has as many bad nights as good nights.

In the last 10-15 games though, he's been pretty consistant for his team, compared to the rest of his season so far.

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

There have been some good posts here so far, on both sides of the issue...

10 players better than Jordan all-time? Impossible. You could only even make an argument for 2 or 3.

But 10 players better than Jordan right now? Give me a break. I don't think he should have retired. If he wants to play, he has every right to. But just because he stays around doesn't mean he is still great.

Jordan was impressive today in defeat. You can see how much he still wants it. Amazing, but let's not overreact. At this point, over the course of a season and playoffs (maybe), he is a very good player. Nothing more, nothing less. Far above average, but nowhere near the top anymore. There is nothing wrong with that. The man is 40 freaking years old.

A.I. has been criticized frequently for taking over games, firing up shots when he isn't shooting well, and not keeping his teammates involved. He's catching some of that here.

Well guess what? Jordan has been known to do the same thing. It wasn't a problem when he was far and away the best player in the world, but it is now. He takes over in all the big games, then turns around and criticizes his "teammates" for being disinterested and not wanting it as much. That'll work if you're one of the few players who can win practically all by yourself, but Jordan isn't one of those players anymore. What this team needs is Jordan's leadership, and instead they're being relegated to the sidelines in the interest of a one-man-show. Yes, he had 39 points Sunday on 13 for 22 shooting. Great stats, looks impressive in the box score. He also had 1(!) assist Sunday in 43 minutes.

Anyone around the league will tell you that it is Jordan's defense that has slipped the most. He can't keep up with the quicker players and has to save himself for the offensive end.

As I stated earlier, Jordan has every right to play if he wants to. But his comeback is hurting the Wizards in the long run. The Wizards are a team that should be building from the ground up with young players. In other words, they probably should be deep into the lottery. It is part of the process. Instead, they cobbled together a group of veterans to try to give Jordan one last shot at making the finals. What do they do after this year? Blow the team up and start all over again?

From a pure basketball perspective (meaning interest in wins and losses, not attendance and/or publicity), none of these players' respective teams would be better off with Jordan in their place:

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Shaquille O'Neal
4) Tracy McGrady
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Chris Webber
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Jason Kidd
9) Gary Payton
10) Paul Pierce
11) Allen Iverson
12) Shawn Marion
13) Jermaine O'Neal
15) Stephon Marbury
16) Rasheed Wallace
17) Steve Francis
18) Karl Malone
19) Elton Brand
20) Jamal Mashburn
21) Ray Allen
22) Antoine Walker
23) Steve Nash
24) Jalen Rose
25) Ben Wallace
26) Gilbert Arenas

Vince Carter, Baron Davis, Antawn Jamison, Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Peja Stojakovic, Michael Finley, Ron Artest, Rip Hamilton, and Jerry Stackhouse (well, that's a tough one to compare right now...fact is he's been pushed out of the way to let Jordan be the man) are debatable. Jordan probably falls right in the middle of this group.

I'm not disrespecting the man, but we don't have to keep pretending he's the best when he's not.

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

There have been some good posts here so far, on both sides of the issue...

10 players better than Jordan all-time? Impossible. You could only even make an argument for 2 or 3.

But 10 players better than Jordan right now? Give me a break. I don't think he should have retired. If he wants to play, he has every right to. But just because he stays around doesn't mean he is still great.

Jordan was impressive today in defeat. You can see how much he still wants it. Amazing, but let's not overreact. At this point, over the course of a season and playoffs (maybe), he is a very good player. Nothing more, nothing less. Far above average, but nowhere near the top anymore. There is nothing wrong with that. The man is 40 freaking years old.

A.I. has been criticized frequently for taking over games, firing up shots when he isn't shooting well, and not keeping his teammates involved. He's catching some of that here.

Well guess what? Jordan has been known to do the same thing. It wasn't a problem when he was far and away the best player in the world, but it is now. He takes over in all the big games, then turns around and criticizes his "teammates" for being disinterested and not wanting it as much. That'll work if you're one of the few players who can win practically all by yourself, but Jordan isn't one of those players anymore. What this team needs is Jordan's leadership, and instead they're being relegated to the sidelines in the interest of a one-man-show. Yes, he had 39 points Sunday on 13 for 22 shooting. Great stats, looks impressive in the box score. He also had 1(!) assist Sunday in 43 minutes.

Anyone around the league will tell you that it is Jordan's defense that has slipped the most. He can't keep up with the quicker players and has to save himself for the offensive end.

As I stated earlier, Jordan has every right to play if he wants to. But his comeback is hurting the Wizards in the long run. The Wizards are a team that should be building from the ground up with young players. In other words, they probably should be deep into the lottery. It is part of the process. Instead, they cobbled together a group of veterans to try to give Jordan one last shot at making the finals. What do they do after this year? Blow the team up and start all over again?

From a pure basketball perspective (meaning interest in wins and losses, not attendance and/or publicity), none of these players' respective teams would be better off with Jordan in their place:

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Shaquille O'Neal
4) Tracy McGrady
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Chris Webber
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Jason Kidd
9) Gary Payton
10) Paul Pierce
11) Allen Iverson
12) Shawn Marion
13) Jermaine O'Neal
15) Stephon Marbury
16) Rasheed Wallace
17) Steve Francis
18) Karl Malone
19) Elton Brand
20) Jamal Mashburn
21) Ray Allen
22) Antoine Walker
23) Steve Nash
24) Jalen Rose
25) Ben Wallace
26) Gilbert Arenas

Vince Carter, Baron Davis, Antawn Jamison, Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Peja Stojakovic, Michael Finley, Ron Artest, Rip Hamilton, and Jerry Stackhouse (well, that's a tough one to compare right now...fact is he's been pushed out of the way to let Jordan be the man) are debatable. Jordan probably falls right in the middle of this group.

I'm not disrespecting the man, but we don't have to keep pretending he's the best when he's not.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Yeah, I'm sure Washington benefitted from the draft for all those years.

Jordan wanted to instill a winning attitude in the Wizards, and he got veterans like Stackhouse to help in the transition so that when he's gone, the Wizards still won't lack leadership. Unfortunately, he found out Stackhouse has to be one of the most inconsistent players to ever play the game. One night, he'll be on fire, the other night he'll shoot 1 for 10 and stuff like that. The big men are incredibly inconsistent as well. There's nobody he can trust on the Wizards to do their job.

By the way, did you see the game? He had one assist, but he had PLENTY of good passes in the game (he was doubled for a good deal of the second half, and players were wide open when he passed it to them and they STILL couldn't hit a jumpshot or dunk the ball or anything. They were completely inept) If it weren't for Jordan, the Wizards would have been blown out, guaranteed. In the beginning of the game, Jordan played for a bit, then sat out only to see his teammates struggle defensively and offensively. The Knicks were rolling right over them, and they didn't have an answer. Then Jordan comes in and gets them to within 3 by halftime (they were down by 15-17 when Jordan entered the game). That's impressive. THey even took a 1-point lead for a brief period, largely because of Jordan. There was nobody on the court for the Wizards, aside from Jordan and maybe Juan Dixon, that stepped up their game. By the way, Stackhouse isn't being shoved aside, he really is this inconsistent, and even when Jordan tries to get him going from time to time, he'll have shooting nights like these.

I do think Jordan isn't as good defensively as he was. He may have even been better last year (possibly because he had very little concern at the time about risking injury to his knee). What he's doing right now is picking his spots. He's still capable of playing great defense but he coasts more on that end, but he can get away with that, since he has Stackhouse this year. Last year, he had to guard the best perimeter player on the opposing team night in and night out, and his knee gave in to that. He's 40 years old, you can't expect him to be what he once was. But he's still extremely impressive even at 40 years old, and IMHO, he's only added to his legacy by coming back this time, showing he could have played extremely well, and most possibly dominated in this era too if he were younger.


As for those players you mentioned at the bottom, you have to be kidding me. None of those players have proven a thing yet. He's better than Rip Hamilton, Ron Artest, and Jerry Stackhouse for sure, and I think he's better than Michael Finley as well (Finley's a really good player though). Shareef Abdur-Rahim's in the East, he's with the Hawks. I don't see him and his team even sniffing the playoffs.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Yeah, I'm sure Washington benefitted from the draft for all those years.

Jordan wanted to instill a winning attitude in the Wizards, and he got veterans like Stackhouse to help in the transition so that when he's gone, the Wizards still won't lack leadership. Unfortunately, he found out Stackhouse has to be one of the most inconsistent players to ever play the game. One night, he'll be on fire, the other night he'll shoot 1 for 10 and stuff like that. The big men are incredibly inconsistent as well. There's nobody he can trust on the Wizards to do their job.

By the way, did you see the game? He had one assist, but he had PLENTY of good passes in the game (he was doubled for a good deal of the second half, and players were wide open when he passed it to them and they STILL couldn't hit a jumpshot or dunk the ball or anything. They were completely inept) If it weren't for Jordan, the Wizards would have been blown out, guaranteed. In the beginning of the game, Jordan played for a bit, then sat out only to see his teammates struggle defensively and offensively. The Knicks were rolling right over them, and they didn't have an answer. Then Jordan comes in and gets them to within 3 by halftime (they were down by 15-17 when Jordan entered the game). That's impressive. THey even took a 1-point lead for a brief period, largely because of Jordan. There was nobody on the court for the Wizards, aside from Jordan and maybe Juan Dixon, that stepped up their game. By the way, Stackhouse isn't being shoved aside, he really is this inconsistent, and even when Jordan tries to get him going from time to time, he'll have shooting nights like these.

I do think Jordan isn't as good defensively as he was. He may have even been better last year (possibly because he had very little concern at the time about risking injury to his knee). What he's doing right now is picking his spots. He's still capable of playing great defense but he coasts more on that end, but he can get away with that, since he has Stackhouse this year. Last year, he had to guard the best perimeter player on the opposing team night in and night out, and his knee gave in to that. He's 40 years old, you can't expect him to be what he once was. But he's still extremely impressive even at 40 years old, and IMHO, he's only added to his legacy by coming back this time, showing he could have played extremely well, and most possibly dominated in this era too if he were younger.


As for those players you mentioned at the bottom, you have to be kidding me. None of those players have proven a thing yet. He's better than Rip Hamilton, Ron Artest, and Jerry Stackhouse for sure, and I think he's better than Michael Finley as well (Finley's a really good player though). Shareef Abdur-Rahim's in the East, he's with the Hawks. I don't see him and his team even sniffing the playoffs.

[jod23]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Jordan is still in the very highest echolon of basketball players in the world. What he brings every night exceeds stats. He brings leadership, heart, and the strongest will to win you have ever seen. Im not saying he is the best player in the NBA right now, he is the best of all time though and still very high on the list of elite basketballers.

Now if only the rest of the Wizards would wake up we may still have a chance at making the playoffs.

[jod23]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Jordan is still in the very highest echolon of basketball players in the world. What he brings every night exceeds stats. He brings leadership, heart, and the strongest will to win you have ever seen. Im not saying he is the best player in the NBA right now, he is the best of all time though and still very high on the list of elite basketballers.

Now if only the rest of the Wizards would wake up we may still have a chance at making the playoffs.

[mateen]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Are the "rest of the Wizards" any worse than the "rest of the Bulls" on the 1st championship team?

[mateen]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Are the "rest of the Wizards" any worse than the "rest of the Bulls" on the 1st championship team?