The LeBron James Thread

[baawe902]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

thanks for sharing!

[Hornetz]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

one thing i hope for lebron is that now hes getting married is that he gets a pre-nup...

[ojandpizza]

I don't know why people think just because Bron teamed with Wade and Bosh means a title should be easy. It was obvious he was never going to get what he needed to win in Cleveland, the team/coach was very bad, probably the worst in the playoffs year after year, yet he led them to the finals and also the best record in the league twice.. He needed to move, he had to, it's not like his current team is the 96 bulls or 86 celtics.. People want to say just because he has Wade ad Bosh he shouldn't lose, but the rest of that supporting cast has been pretty bad.. Every championship team Kobe had played on has been better than this team, the Spurs teams better, Mavs last year better, I glad he finally won, especially in the dominating manner he did it.. This was probably Wades worst year, and Bosh wasn't 100% in the playoffs either, Bron carried this team and it was so good to watch something like that again, I haven't watched anything like that since Jordan..

[Weeks]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

To: SteelersFreak, WeLLWeLL, sportsbuck, TheShizNo1, and wwharton.

Yeah and the Mavs had nothing to do with making LeBron play like that right?

Get out of here with that nonsense argument.

Actually, you are putting words in my mouth, I never said that. I agree that the Mavs executed good defense to limit LeBron, but clearly LeBron wasn't fully there mentally. He even admitted that being the villain was getting to him so he decided to go into these finals with no regrets and a different approach.

Please elaborate on what part of my opinion doesn't have any sense.

Is that you, Skip?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

No.

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I agree with the points Cuban made that Carlisle and the Mavs were able to employ good defense to contain LeBron, but clearly LeBron had a different mindset in those finals where he was afraid to step up in the heat of the moment. As I said above he even admitted that he was going into these finals with a "no regrets" approach.

I believe had the Heat played the Mavericks again this year, and LeBron had the same mindset as this year, he would have not done as well statistically compared to the Thunder. But he would have done better than last year.

Boo this man.

Ok.

"normal" Lebron, lol. THAT guy was "normal" Lebron. The question is if what we just saw this year is NOW normal Lebron, bc based on the end of every playoff run until this year that was "normal" Lebron. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that along with all the amazing things he has been able to do, he was also the mentally fragile insecure kid that was afraid to fail in certain moments. Can we say that if we saw "normal" Durant and "normal" Harden this year the Thunder would've won? Or should we acknowledge the stage was too big for them at this point in their careers and their performance was "normal" for who they are right now.

LeBron James for his career so far has averaged: 27.6 pts, 7.2 reb, 6.9 ast.

In the 2011 finals he averaged: 17.8 pts, 7.1 reb, 6.8 ast.

Based off of the above, that is not normal LeBron James and I don't know how clear that can be.

Now going to your argument that LeBron always ends playoff runs like he did in 2011:

In 2010 in LeBron's final series against the Celtics he averaged 26.8 pts, 9.3 reb, 7.2 ast. (9 pts, 2.2 reb, and .4 ast higher than 2011 Finals)

In 2009 in the Cavs last series in the conference finals against the Magic, LeBron averaged: 38.5 pts, 8.3 reb, 8 ast. (20.7 pts, 1.2 reb, and 1.2 ast higher than 2011 Finals)

This shows how your argument is already invalid about how LeBron always ended playoff runs like he did in the 2011 finals, and it shows how in the 2011 finals LeBron did not play normally compared to how he did in his career or in the final series in his playoff runs the two years before (and you said he always ended series like 2011).

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

LeBron James for his career so far has averaged: 27.6 pts, 7.2 reb, 6.9 ast.

In the 2011 finals he averaged: 17.8 pts, 7.1 reb, 6.8 ast.

Based off of the above, that is not normal LeBron James and I don't know how clear that can be.

Now going to your argument that LeBron always ends playoff runs like he did in 2011:

In 2010 in LeBron's final series against the Celtics he averaged 26.8 pts, 9.3 reb, 7.2 ast. (9 pts, 2.2 reb, and .4 ast higher than 2011 Finals)

In 2009 in the Cavs last series in the conference finals against the Magic, LeBron averaged: 38.5 pts, 8.3 reb, 8 ast. (20.7 pts, 1.2 reb, and 1.2 ast higher than 2011 Finals)

This shows how your argument is already invalid about how LeBron always ended playoff runs like he did in the 2011 finals, and it shows how in the 2011 finals LeBron did not play normally compared to how he did in his career or in the final series in his playoff runs the two years before (and you said he always ended series like 2011).

No it doesn't invalidate anything I've said, and I'm not steadfast against running to stats to support an argument like some. However, people seem to put blinders on for anything but stats when it comes to Lebron. There's never been a secret of what Lebron is capable of statistically, but his maturity and mental toughness has been in question since the day he was drafted... and rightfully so bc honestly, the expectations of a kid straight out of high school who never left the bubble of praise in Ohio were way too high to begin with.

We can literally look at all walks of life and find examples of behavior changes in big moments for a number of reasons. It was "normal" for him to have serious butterflies in those moments. Whatever his trigger was... at the foul line late in the game, team needs 2 points to take the lead in a deciding game to get to the championship, whatever. He clearly had his demons, and ironically your quote of what he said going into this year's finals supports this argument.

Like I said, what does this say about Durant? Logic would say that as great as he is, he's still not comfortable/confident playing at the highest level in the Finals... we could even say the same about the conference finals last year. It's simple human nature and most definitely "normal". Just bc he can fill a stat sheet doesn't mean there aren't/weren't circumstances to alter his confidence.

[utexas]

As Lebron enters his prime how much better can he actually get. Imagine if he improves the post game and his jump shot, honestly what could an opposing coach or player do to stop him offensively? I really think having Allen will compel him to play even more back to the basket as teams will not be able to leave ray Allen. Throughout the Olympics his passing to the cutter while he had had his back to the basket was spot on. Defensively he is an elite on ball and help defender.as he continues to mature, where is his ceiling?

[AirTeezy]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

As Lebron enters his prime how much better can he actually get. Imagine if he improves the post game and his jump shot, honestly what could an opposing coach or player do to stop him offensively? I really think having Allen will compel him to play even more back to the basket as teams will not be able to leave ray Allen. Throughout the Olympics his passing to the cutter while he had had his back to the basket was spot on. Defensively he is an elite on ball and help defender.as he continues to mature, where is his ceiling?

[DieHardYankee26]

It had been dead for so long...

[Rule of Two]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

No it doesn't invalidate anything I've said, and I'm not steadfast against running to stats to support an argument like some. However, people seem to put blinders on for anything but stats when it comes to Lebron. There's never been a secret of what Lebron is capable of statistically, but his maturity and mental toughness has been in question since the day he was drafted... and rightfully so bc honestly, the expectations of a kid straight out of high school who never left the bubble of praise in Ohio were way too high to begin with.

We can literally look at all walks of life and find examples of behavior changes in big moments for a number of reasons. It was "normal" for him to have serious butterflies in those moments. Whatever his trigger was... at the foul line late in the game, team needs 2 points to take the lead in a deciding game to get to the championship, whatever. He clearly had his demons, and ironically your quote of what he said going into this year's finals supports this argument.

Like I said, what does this say about Durant? Logic would say that as great as he is, he's still not comfortable/confident playing at the highest level in the Finals... we could even say the same about the conference finals last year. It's simple human nature and most definitely "normal". Just bc he can fill a stat sheet doesn't mean there aren't/weren't circumstances to alter his confidence.

That was his point, bro. He was using his statistics as evidence to that. He was clearly not himself in the 2011 Finals. Anyone with half a brain and one eye could see that.

[The 24th Letter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKUwcCp7LPE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Ya'll just can't let this die in peace SMH.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That was his point, bro. He was using his statistics as evidence to that. He was clearly not himself in the 2011 Finals. Anyone with half a brain and one eye could see that.

1. There's no way I'm going to reply to a response about a conversation that happened over a month a go with someone who wasn't in the conversation.

2. Because I don't like to give out infractions for anything not insanely blatant for discussions I'm involved in, I'm going to leave this alone. But your time here will be very short if you pull out the "half a brain and one eye" comment or anything else like it again.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Hmm, looks like I missed out on some things while I was away. I'll answer the call when I get home if this thread is still open.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You're making some pretty big assumptions, especially considering you're acknowledging that team didn't have the player he is now. My point is, if the thought is that going to Miami played a huge role in the player we saw in game 5 on Thursday, I can buy that to an extent. But blaming everyone around him is the real easy way out.

LBJ deserves a good bit of the blame as well. I'm not sure who you were referencing here but I've never said in private or public that only the Cavs' roster and coaching staff should bear the full brunt. They were a big part of the problem though.

You're right, that team around him wasn't good enough to win a ring... we saw that. But I don't think it's so easy to say they couldn't in those situations with this guy we just saw. And if not, how big are the pieces needed really? These teams we're talking about weren't really power houses... they were all very competitive, even with James still playing/not playing like he was.

To win in this League you historically need to have at least two players that cause mismatches or consistently create good shots for either themselves or others. You also have to have a coaching staff that can make the right adjustments game to game (more than that even in some cases). Those Cavs teams were good enough to do exactly what they did, nothing more. They looked impressive in the regular season because teams don't gameplan like they do in the playoffs. I'm not telling you anything you don't know but playoff basketball is close quarters combat both on the court and on the bench. Teams get a real good look at each other and if all you have is plan A like the Cavs did then you aren't winning anything substantive.

Players don't need to run away to stacked teams, and every loss doesn't just mean you need to bring in someone else that's shown they can do better in the past. Durant made it VERY clear he wasn't ready to lead his team to a championship. Harden wasn't the extra piece he needed to be. Should Durant leave? Should OKC be in a rush to dump Harden for some vet who's dropped 20 and 10 in the past (and why does this seem so easy to get by so many people)?

I'm bypassing the stacked teams bit, I haven't argued that point. But I don't agree with what you say about Durant. I think he was ready to lead his team to a title but I don't think he and his teammates were put in the best position to beat Miami in that series. As great as LBJ was, I think Spoelstra out-coaching Scott Brooks shouldn't be overlooked as much as it seems to be. I'll leave the rest of your comments there where they are, I don't think I've made any arguments that are relevant to them.

Lebron can do and go wherever he wants, for whatever reason he wants. But I'm not going to justify it with the other 11 guys being horrible on teams with the best regular season record in the league, winning series every playoff trip they've made including one to the championship. That entire team, Lebron included, was the reason they didn't win and the entire team needed to get better to get over the hump. It's great to see that James is getting better. It would've been better to see him do it with the Cavs.

I agree. But the fact is that in it its entire sports history the state of CLE has never managed to land a superstar of his own accord. Thats pretty damning. LBJ leaving was what alot of us thought would happen, the specifics are what left me scratching my head.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

In the immortal words of the great N.A.S.: Knee. Grow. Please.

Artest, Ariza both said they would have signed with the Cavs if they thought Lebron was staying, and STAT also said he would have signed long-term in CLE. And MIA's huge signings? Z, Joel Anthony, Eddy Curry, Shane Battier and the corpse of Mike Miller are the "1st rate talent" that flocked to beautiful South Beach? Like most dudes, you ignore the fact that Lebron signing an unprecedented 3 year deal had a MAJOR impact.

I swear, revisionist history like this is the norm, even here in Cleveland and it's killing me...it's KILLING me.

This doesn't make any sense to me. First off I don't recall any of the players you mentioned stating their intentions publicly. If they did and someone can point me to them I'll gladly STFU on this point. Secondarily, not one of those players fitted the needs CLE had during LBJ last season there. None of them can consistently create good looks without being spoon-fed and none of them create match-up problems against good teams (Hell STAT would have meant a dip in rebounding and D in that front court). CLE would have traded old problems for new ones essentially. Lastly, MIA's huge signings were LBJ and Chris Bosh, lets not get it twisted.