The LeBron James Thread

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Playing in the same place as Jordan may or not be a factor for Lebron, but if you can't see that there is a difference between being compared to Jordan as a Cav versus as a Bull, that is being oblivious.

No, no there is not a difference. Kobe Bryant is sitting at four rings right now, possibly five after this season. The Kobe/Michael Jordan talks are going to go wilder than ever all over the country. LeBron is compared to Michael every single time he accomplishes something. We've seen comparisons of LeBron to Michael everytime he's had a birthday to compare LeBron at whatever age to Michael at that age. Scoring X amount of points at a certain point of his career and so on. You make it seem like by playing in Chicago after every single game the entire world will start breaking down LeBron's performance in his first Bulls game compared to Michael's, then his second, third and so on and so on for the rest of his time there. There is no new level of comparison to Michael that LeBron will face by wearing a Bulls jersey. People in Chicago aren't as simple and stupid about their star players as everyone likes to imply where no one can be embraced because of a previously great player. Now New York on the other hand...A-Rod/ Derek Jeter anyone?

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Letting a player play GM is death. I don't care how great a player is on the court, he should not be having a say on roster personnel. Back before Jordan was winning championships, if Jordan had his say the Bulls would have never traded for Scottie Pippen and they probably would have keep their original draft pick in Olden Polynice. Yeah, how would that have worked out! Jordan back in the day used to always harp about how the Bulls were lacking a big man. Then Krause decided to feed into Jordan's ego and draft Polynice. Then luckily, Krause decided to use his own common sense and trade for Scottie Pippen when Seattle offered him on the table for Polynice.

You start letting James make trades and watch your team go to hell. Now if he's consulted by the GM on a potential trade is one thing. BUT him coming to the front office and saying, "I want player A on this team" is another.

Many of the great players have the basketball God complex. They feel that because they were great on the court that they could translate it off the court. The only person who was great on the court and great in the front office was Jerry West.

I agree with all of that but I wouldn't say West is the only one. I'd say he's the best one but McHale's not bad, Paxson, even Aignes. There will probably be another West someday too but the most important part is that none of them, including West, would be good at it while they're playing at the top of their game... especially if they're the center of the team.

Try to explain. Try being the operative word.

You seem to think that these were the "final pieces" to a title team, when in reality both Mo and Jamison are not fit to play Robin.

Everyone knows that, but you can't seem to accept this.

If you would like to respond to any of the posts I made to Altimus, feel free because I've already stated where I'm coming from.

You keep saying it but that doesn't mean people agree with you. I'd say you can't throw together pieces to win a championship anyway. Didn't work with Payton and Malone going to the Lakers. Some may argue the Celtics but they added a HOFer and another borderline all time great. Mo and Jamison are not Garnett and Allen. Generally speaking, teams need to gel, and having a competent coach helps that too. There have been plenty of things in this thread (on this board) about why adding Mo, Jamison and Shaq didn't equal the championship and them not being a proper "robin" is just one theory.

No, no there is not a difference. Kobe Bryant is sitting at four rings right now, possibly five after this season. The Kobe/Michael Jordan talks are going to go wilder than ever all over the country. LeBron is compared to Michael every single time he accomplishes something. We've seen comparisons of LeBron to Michael everytime he's had a birthday to compare LeBron at whatever age to Michael at that age. Scoring X amount of points at a certain point of his career and so on. You make it seem like by playing in Chicago after every single game the entire world will start breaking down LeBron's performance in his first Bulls game compared to Michael's, then his second, third and so on and so on for the rest of his time there. There is no new level of comparison to Michael that LeBron will face by wearing a Bulls jersey. People in Chicago aren't as simple and stupid about their star players as everyone likes to imply where no one can be embraced because of a previously great player. Now New York on the other hand...A-Rod/ Derek Jeter anyone?

Maybe you just don't want to see it bc you want him to play for the Bulls. Bottom line is in Chicago every thing LBJ did wrong would be looked at more critically in comparison to MJ. He'd be expected to start winning championships right away. I don't think the town would have a problem turning on him at all if he had no rings after 2 years.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Maybe you just don't want to see it bc you want him to play for the Bulls. Bottom line is in Chicago every thing LBJ did wrong would be looked at more critically in comparison to MJ. He'd be expected to start winning championships right away. I don't think the town would have a problem turning on him at all if he had no rings after 2 years.

Or maybe I live here and know a little bit more about Bulls fans and they're expectations than most the people who continue to trot out what we're expecting of LeBron and how we're going to judge him. If the Bulls were in a Cubs like haven't won in most of the cities residents lifetime type of situations, then yeah this type of move would be held to Michael like standards and he'd catch hell after 2 years of no rings. But again you're basically calling Bulls fans basketball stupid cause no one here is expecting a championship in 2 years. They expect the team to improve significantly but no one is expecting a guranteed championship and if it isn't delievered by X amount of time LeBron's a dead man walking.

Derek Lee is embraced here, Aramis Ramirez is embraced, Brian Urlacher (only starting to garner some dislike in recent years because of his own actions more than not winning) is embraced, Jay Cutler has been embraced with no one turning on him (despite reaaaallllly good reason to do so after last year). You don't have to win right away in Chicago. Zambrano is only just now wearing his welcome out here after ten years of being here and that's with a team that's more starved for a title than any in sports. LeBron in Chicago will not be turned on anytime in the near future should he sign here and not win any championships.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Or maybe I live here and know a little bit more about Bulls fans and they're expectations than most the people who continue to trot out what we're expecting of LeBron and how we're going to judge him. If the Bulls were in a Cubs like haven't won in most of the cities residents lifetime type of situations, then yeah this type of move would be held to Michael like standards and he'd catch hell after 2 years of no rings. But again you're basically calling Bulls fans basketball stupid cause no one here is expecting a championship in 2 years. They expect the team to improve significantly but no one is expecting a guranteed championship and if it isn't delievered by X amount of time LeBron's a dead man walking.

Derek Lee is embraced here, Aramis Ramirez is embraced, Brian Urlacher (only starting to garner some dislike in recent years because of his own actions more than not winning) is embraced, Jay Cutler has been embraced with no one turning on him (despite reaaaallllly good reason to do so after last year). You don't have to win right away in Chicago. Zambrano is only just now wearing his welcome out here after ten years of being here and that's with a team that's more starved for a title than any in sports. LeBron in Chicago will not be turned on anytime in the near future should he sign here and not win any championships.

Being a Cubs fan and an informed NFL fan, I gotta point out that the difference between someone like Derrick Lee or Brian Urlacher and Lebron James is pretty monumental. Nobody expects Lee to be as good as Ernie Banks, and if they did, there's still a big difference between what Ernie Banks was for MLB and what MJ was for the NBA.

[Anavar]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Or maybe I live here and know a little bit more about Bulls fans and they're expectations than most the people who continue to trot out what we're expecting of LeBron and how we're going to judge him. If the Bulls were in a Cubs like haven't won in most of the cities residents lifetime type of situations, then yeah this type of move would be held to Michael like standards and he'd catch hell after 2 years of no rings. But again you're basically calling Bulls fans basketball stupid cause no one here is expecting a championship in 2 years. They expect the team to improve significantly but no one is expecting a guranteed championship and if it isn't delievered by X amount of time LeBron's a dead man walking.

Derek Lee is embraced here, Aramis Ramirez is embraced, Brian Urlacher (only starting to garner some dislike in recent years because of his own actions more than not winning) is embraced, Jay Cutler has been embraced with no one turning on him (despite reaaaallllly good reason to do so after last year). You don't have to win right away in Chicago. Zambrano is only just now wearing his welcome out here after ten years of being here and that's with a team that's more starved for a title than any in sports. LeBron in Chicago will not be turned on anytime in the near future should he sign here and not win any championships.

King B, don't even waste your time anymore. It's not worth it. Apparently, people outside of our own city know more than us when it comes to our sports teams.

Yes, maybe there are some people out there who do know more than the average Joe in Chicago, but not in this forum or in this particular case.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Being a Cubs fan and an informed NFL fan, I gotta point out that the difference between someone like Derrick Lee or Brian Urlacher and Lebron James is pretty monumental. Nobody expects Lee to be as good as Ernie Banks, and if they did, there's still a big difference between what Ernie Banks was for MLB and what MJ was for the NBA.

True, but my point is that those guys legacies are in tact and will forever be that way in this city. However that doesn't mean guys can't come in and make names for themselves without having this immense pressure on them of living up to those names and can also be huge in this city's history and be legends here even if they aren't THE legend. Ernie Banks is considered THE Cub, but when people in town comprise their lists of greatest Cubs of all time people don't have a problem happily including D-Lee and A-Ram on those lists, some even putting them at their top. Brian Urlacher has been legendary in this town without winning anything. He is this generation of Bears fans Walter Payton, or Butkus, or Sayers. People in the town embraced him and didn't put any added pressure on him.

No doubt MJ's light is huge, but it's not this massive scorching hot light that some people try to make it out to be where LeBron could never be accepted here or people will just be sitting around waiting for him to screw up to protect the Jordan Jumpman or something because they expect a championship in his first year. If you want a reason for him not to sign in Chicago, then come up with a better reason it than that or that he and Derrick Rose both need the ball while naming teams with a superstar potential point guard who'll need the ball as well.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Being a Cubs fan and an informed NFL fan, I gotta point out that the difference between someone like Derrick Lee or Brian Urlacher and Lebron James is pretty monumental. Nobody expects Lee to be as good as Ernie Banks, and if they did, there's still a big difference between what Ernie Banks was for MLB and what MJ was for the NBA.

Exactly. There are a million differences. For example, Rose is fine bc he came through the draft. King B keeps mentioning Kobe but it doesn't relate unless Kobe left LA to come to Chicago... in his prime. I always find it funny when people feel like they can speak for their entire city and anyone not there knows nothing. Your world is much smaller than you think it is, and the internet is a wonderful thing.

And King B, give Cutler another year like the last one... two tops, and they'll turn on him. Maybe not the 20 or so people you've talked to.

King B, don't even waste your time anymore. It's not worth it. Apparently, people outside of our own city know more than us when it comes to our sports teams.

Yes, maybe there are some people out there who do know more than the average Joe in Chicago, but not in this forum or in this particular case.

May want to get over yourself there. It's a valid point and your rebuttal is "you don't live here, I'm not listening to you." That'll take you a long way.

[Altimus]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Chicago fans only turn on two things in this city. The coaches and the quarterbacks.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Exactly. There are a million differences. For example, Rose is fine bc he came through the draft. King B keeps mentioning Kobe but it doesn't relate unless Kobe left LA to come to Chicago... in his prime. I always find it funny when people feel like they can speak for their entire city and anyone not there knows nothing. Your world is much smaller than you think it is, and the internet is a wonderful thing.

And King B, give Cutler another year like the last one... two tops, and they'll turn on him. Maybe not the 20 or so people you've talked to.



May want to get over yourself there. It's a valid point and your rebuttal is "you don't live here, I'm not listening to you." That'll take you a long way.

Le gasp! How do you know about the 20 people? You're telling someone to get over themselves while assuming I've only talked to around 20 people or so to form my opinion. Priceless. You're right the internet is a wonderful place and I'm certain that whatever you're reading on the internet that's telling you that people in Chicago are assuming a championship is coming as soon as LeBron gets here otherwise the city will turn on him makes about about one person more than the 20 you claim I'm talking to. I listen to all the radio shows, watch the on tv sports shows and read the papers here and they're about the same ones that are posting Chicago Bulls related things on the internet. None of them that I've seen are seriously saying the Bulls are going to win a championship now or in 3 years with LeBron (not that it's an unrealistic expectation) and if they don't win and that's the expectation they're not going to turn on LeBron over it.

As for Kobe it does relate because my point the entire time these arguments have been made is that the comparisons do not grow any more than they already are. How much more can you compare the two? Just go to a sports message board anywhere and find the Kobe/MJ comparisons. Go look at the number of Kobe fans that think it's just a matter of Kobe getting seven rings before he's better than Michael. Go look at the number of Michael fans that think it's those rings and other points of his games that make him the best. Exactly how do you get worse than what it already is? Everytime someone accomplishes something, they're stats are posted side by side with the last great player to do it. Rose dropped 30 something points in his playoff debut and it was posted side by side with Kareem on every sports channel.

The only way that the shadow can loom large by coming to Chicago is basically saying that the fans and media here are going to not accept him until he wins at least six rings. It can't get any worse in the national media because he's been being compared to Jordan since he was in high school (both guys). The Jordan shadow looms over the entire NBA because of what he meant to the league. You can't pick and choose when his shadow looms and how great he is.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Le gasp! How do you know about the 20 people? You're telling someone to get over themselves while assuming I've only talked to around 20 people or so to form my opinion. Priceless. You're right the internet is a wonderful place and I'm certain that whatever you're reading on the internet that's telling you that people in Chicago are assuming a championship is coming as soon as LeBron gets here otherwise the city will turn on him makes about about one person more than the 20 you claim I'm talking to. I listen to all the radio shows, watch the on tv sports shows and read the papers here and they're about the same ones that are posting Chicago Bulls related things on the internet. None of them that I've seen are seriously saying the Bulls are going to win a championship now or in 3 years with LeBron (not that it's an unrealistic expectation) and if they don't win and that's the expectation they're not going to turn on LeBron over it.

As for Kobe it does relate because my point the entire time these arguments have been made is that the comparisons do not grow any more than they already are. How much more can you compare the two? Just go to a sports message board anywhere and find the Kobe/MJ comparisons. Go look at the number of Kobe fans that think it's just a matter of Kobe getting seven rings before he's better than Michael. Go look at the number of Michael fans that think it's those rings and other points of his games that make him the best. Exactly how do you get worse than what it already is? Everytime someone accomplishes something, they're stats are posted side by side with the last great player to do it. Rose dropped 30 something points in his playoff debut and it was posted side by side with Kareem on every sports channel.

The only way that the shadow can loom large by coming to Chicago is basically saying that the fans and media here are going to not accept him until he wins at least six rings. It can't get any worse in the national media because he's been being compared to Jordan since he was in high school (both guys). The Jordan shadow looms over the entire NBA because of what he meant to the league. You can't pick and choose when his shadow looms and how great he is.

The "20 people" was a joke. I wouldn't pair that with "get over yourself" and that statement wasn't directed at you, as your post wasn't completely dismissive like Anavar's.

We're not talking about comparisons. Comparisons are harmless chatter. There shouldn't be emotional involvement in comparison discussions. However, when the best (or 2nd best) player is said to come to your town, expectations go through the roof... beyond realism. The same would be true in NYC, NJ, wherever... they've been there in Cleveland, a stadium full of fans that followed him since HS and worried about him leaving, yet they booed him toward the end of a playoff game. He's got a muuuuuuuuch longer leash in Cleveland than anywhere else and even they booed.

Given all of that, Chicago is a place where MJ got them to the point of having unrealistic expectations, and then brought them to fruition. Rightfully so, in Chicago having the best basketball player on the planet = championship. So it's not so much about the comparisons between him and Jordan (I'm not the one that said he needs to win 7 in a row). It's that, like every other place besides Cleveland they have no ties to him and the shine can fade quickly... added to the fact that Chicago has been blessed with having the player LBJ is compared to bring them title after title. I think you're being naive if you don't think his leash would be shorter in Chicago than anywhere else.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

The "20 people" was a joke. I wouldn't pair that with "get over yourself" and that statement wasn't directed at you, as your post wasn't completely dismissive like Anavar's.

We're not talking about comparisons. Comparisons are harmless chatter. There shouldn't be emotional involvement in comparison discussions. However, when the best (or 2nd best) player is said to come to your town, expectations go through the roof... beyond realism. The same would be true in NYC, NJ, wherever... they've been there in Cleveland, a stadium full of fans that followed him since HS and worried about him leaving, yet they booed him toward the end of a playoff game. He's got a muuuuuuuuch longer leash in Cleveland than anywhere else and even they booed.

Given all of that, Chicago is a place where MJ got them to the point of having unrealistic expectations, and then brought them to fruition. Rightfully so, in Chicago having the best basketball player on the planet = championship. So it's not so much about the comparisons between him and Jordan (I'm not the one that said he needs to win 7 in a row). It's that, like every other place besides Cleveland they have no ties to him and the shine can fade quickly... added to the fact that Chicago has been blessed with having the player LBJ is compared to bring them title after title. I think you're being naive if you don't think his leash would be shorter in Chicago than anywhere else.

They booed because the team quit.

I don't really get what the point of your argument is then if it isn't about comparisons to MJ. His leash shorter in Chicago than anywhere? Why? As has been pointed out the fans of Chicago have given lesser players a loooooong leash in this city. LeBron not winning a championship in 2-3 years is not going to have people in Chicago turning on him.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

They booed because the team quit.

I don't really get what the point of your argument is then if it isn't about comparisons to MJ. His leash shorter in Chicago than anywhere? Why? As has been pointed out the fans of Chicago have given lesser players a loooooong leash in this city. LeBron not winning a championship in 2-3 years is not going to have people in Chicago turning on him.

I don't know what else to tell you if you still don't know my point.

Lesser players don't count. Lesser players bring lesser expectations. If you could say they've given better players a longer leash, then you'd have a point but unfortunately we don't have any examples of that to compare to.

[Kully]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Bosh seems to want to team up with LBJ.

Sources said the Raptors prefer a sign-and-trade if Bosh is intent on leaving as well. They likely would want a big man to replace the 6-10, 230-pound Bosh in the lineup.

One source said Bosh's decision hinges on where LeBron James signs.

"If LeBron decides to go to either New York or Chicago, I think that's where you'll see Chris land," the source told Ford. "If LeBron stays in Cleveland, I think the process is more wide open."

Bosh, 26, is an unrestricted free agent. He averaged 24 points per game last season and has averaged 20.2 points per game for his career.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5208043

[goh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Chicago fans only turn on two things in this city. The coaches and the quarterbacks.

3...fans trying to catch "foul" balls.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Bosh seems to want to team up with LBJ.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5208043

I wonder why it seems like Cleveland wouldn't be an option. If it's a sign and trade, they'd be able to work that as well as any other team. Or does it seem like Cleveland would be against bringing in Bosh (which would be insane).