The LeBron James Thread

[luv_mist]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

was this posted yet?

<object width="448" height="374"><param name="movie" value="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/e/16711680/wshhMBen06v9e5yU1H3z"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/e/16711680/wshhMBen06v9e5yU1H3z" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" width="448" height="374"></embed></object>

Ive been a LBJ supporter despite the hate but he's slowly putting me in the grey area....

Just the gray area? Honestly, the coach is his superior and he disrespected him like that in public. The man has no respect. I wonder if Wade is having second thoughts about this great meshing of the "superstars."

[dragonyeuw]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

I was just saying this same thing to a guy at work who loves riding on Lebron. He doesn't seem to be expanding his game.

Truthfully, most of the game comes too easy for Lebron. He's so physically gifted beyond everyone else at his position, that I don't think mentally it's hit him yet that at some point, he will have to adapt his game like the other physically talented perimeter greats before him.

When I watch Lebron, I see a guy who plays off his natural gifts and feel for the game. He does have a natural instinct for it. By contrast, when I see Kobe play, I see a guy who's worked tirelessly in the gym to perfect every skill and strengthen every weakness. I don't think Kobe's natural IQ for the game is as high as Lebron's, but no doubt his work ethic and commitment to constantly improving makes him a cut above Lebron for me.

[Subversion]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

LeBron James comes out of a different generation of young people. Everything has been handed to him, his body, his athleticism, his community etc..etc.. He was given King status in high school...It's gone to his head.

MJ, Kobe, worked for their bodies, worked for their reputation, and they didn't have millions and millions handed to them instantaneously.

LeBron has no reason to accomplish anything, he seems to lack the drive and determination the great ones had. And his ability to rise to the occasion is slim to none. Not to mention worth ethic that appears indifferent.

He's not capable of living up to his expectations.

Sad.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

LeBron James comes out of a different generation of young people. Everything has been handed to him, his body, his athleticism, his community etc..etc.. He was given King status in high school...It's gone to his head.

MJ, Kobe, worked for their bodies, worked for their reputation, and they didn't have millions and millions handed to them instantaneously.

LeBron has no reason to accomplish anything, he seems to lack the drive and determination the great ones had. And his ability to rise to the occasion is slim to none. Not to mention worth ethic that appears indifferent.

He's not capable of living up to his expectations.

Sad.

I am no LeBron apologist but I feel as though I have to set the record straight. LeBron works for his body too. Have you not seen the bulk and muscle he has put on since entering the league? He works for his reputation, he's considered the one of the best in the league because he's proven it. And LeBron has worked his whole life to play in the NBA, it's not just some freak occurence and he didn't just win the lottery and make millions, he works everyday for it. Ability to rise to the occasion? Look at the series a few years back against the Pistons in the ECF. Do you remember 48 on 55% against one of the best defensive teams in the league? How about scoring the Cavs' last 25 points and 29 of 30 points? I don't like what LeBron did or how he carries himself either, and he may be a crappy person and a horrible teammate (not saying he is) but let's not exaggerate and make this a basketball argument. The bottom line is LeBron is one of, if not the best players in the league, and will probably go down as an all time great. Not the greatest, but top 10 isn't anything to sneeze at.

[dalnet22]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

LeBron James comes out of a different generation of young people. Everything has been handed to him, his body, his athleticism, his community etc..etc.. He was given King status in high school...It's gone to his head.

MJ, Kobe, worked for their bodies, worked for their reputation, and they didn't have millions and millions handed to them instantaneously.

LeBron has no reason to accomplish anything, he seems to lack the drive and determination the great ones had. And his ability to rise to the occasion is slim to none. Not to mention worth ethic that appears indifferent.

He's not capable of living up to his expectations.

Sad.

nail on head

[Jukeman]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Just the gray area? Honestly, the coach is his superior and he disrespected him like that in public. The man has no respect. I wonder if Wade is having second thoughts about this great meshing of the "superstars."

yea but only because I have other issue to worried about than LBJ and The Heat fiasco.

LBJ is a punk(Rated PG), Bosh is on the DL and Wade has a ring...I dont care for those players

[dragonyeuw]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

He works for his reputation.

He was anointed King James before he ever played an NBA game.

he's considered the one of the best in the league because he's proven it.

True enough.

Ability to rise to the occasion? Look at the series a few years back against the Pistons in the ECF. Do you remember 48 on 55% against one of the best defensive teams in the league? How about scoring the Cavs' last 25 points and 29 of 30 points?

All-time great performances to be sure, but interesting to me is that Lebron seems to perform better as the underdog, then when he's expected to win. The last few years, he's led the Cavs to the best record and certain expectations were placed on him to take that team all the way. He fell short both times. While he played well against the Magic in 09, he was very suspect against the Celtics in last year's run.

The occasions you mention, there was no expectation on him to lead his team to the finals, and safe to say he made that Cavs team overachieve (considering the next best players were Big Z and Larry Hughes). The question I have right now is how well does he respond to expectations when he's reached a point that people expect him to win championships?

The bottom line is LeBron is one of, if not the best players in the league,

Quite true.

and will probably go down as an all time great.

Without leading a team to multiple rings? Not likely. All-time great talent? Easily. All-time great player? Remains to be seen.

Not the greatest, but top 10 isn't anything to sneeze at.

There's enough hype that's been placed on him over the past decade, than anything less than challenging Jordan for the top spot should be considered underachievement. He entered the league with more hype than anyone before him, or since.

bold reply

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

He works for his reputation.

He was anointed King James before he ever played an NBA game.

he's considered the one of the best in the league because he's proven it.

True enough.

Ability to rise to the occasion? Look at the series a few years back against the Pistons in the ECF. Do you remember 48 on 55% against one of the best defensive teams in the league? How about scoring the Cavs' last 25 points and 29 of 30 points?

All-time great performances to be sure, but interesting to me is that Lebron seems to perform better as the underdog, then when he's expected to win. The last few years, he's led the Cavs to the best record and certain expectations were placed on him to take that team all the way. He fell short both times. While he played well against the Magic in 09, he was very suspect against the Celtics in last year's run.

The occasions you mention, there was no expectation on him to lead his team to the finals, and safe to say he made that Cavs team overachieve (considering the next best players were Big Z and Larry Hughes). The question I have right now is how well does he respond to expectations when he's reached a point that people expect him to win championships?

The bottom line is LeBron is one of, if not the best players in the league,

Quite true.

and will probably go down as an all time great.

Without leading a team to multiple rings? Not likely. All-time great talent? Easily. All-time great player? Remains to be seen.

Not the greatest, but top 10 isn't anything to sneeze at.

He was annointed the King because he was an absolute monster in high school, because he destroyed everyone he faced at that level, and because his last name is James. Let's not act as if this King this is anything more than a nickname.

I understand what you're saying about his performances, but only one team can win the championship. LeBron isn't the only one not winning. Do we hold it against Kobe that between him getting Shaq and Pau his teams were garbage? He can't do it all by himself people.

Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton are all considered all time greats who have never won a championship, and I would think that LeBron will be looked to as as good or better than all of these guys. Charles Barkley demanded a trade from a team to get into a winning situation. Karl malone tried to jump on a Lakers team in the twilight of his career to chase a ring. Noone cares that they didn't win a ring. People say things like "I wish Patrick had gotten a ring" or "If Jordan hadn't been in the league Malone and Stockton would've gotten a ring" but noone says "Charles Barkley didn't get a ring. He's not one of the top 25 players ever." Whether or not LeBron wins a ring, he's an all time great.

I replied before seeing your last point, but his hype is not his fault. LeBron cannot be blamed for what you and I expected him to do. If he isn't the best player ever when it's all said and done, is that an underachievement? Maybe in some minds, but nothing is a surething until it happens, what the media convinced us to believe or you assumed would happen doesn't matter. If he's the second best player of his era, behind a top 15 all time player in Kobe, is he really doing anything wrong?

[NC State-31 UNC-27]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

LeBron nicknamed himself King James, by the way.

Also, got "Chosen 1" tattooed on his back.

And Nike told us that we are all "witness"

In case thats not enough, LeBron chooses to talk in 3rd person half the time. "LeBron stays humble by being LeBron."

The guy is a human train wreck and 99% of NBA fans realize it and are loving it at this point.

edit: And just so we're clear...anyone who gets "chosen 1" on their back and throws chalk into the air before every basketball game, including road games, holding their arms in the air and posing like we should worship them...deserves every single ounce of hate they get.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

He was annointed the King because he was an absolute monster in high school, because he destroyed everyone he faced at that level, and because his last name is James. Let's not act as if this King this is anything more than a nickname.

Exactly. A monster in high school. And given a 90 million dollar contract by Nike before he ever set foot on the NBA floor. That's called being given everything before you earned it. Unless you count him earning it as being a monster in high school against vastly overmatched opponents. Otherwise......

I understand what you're saying about his performances, but only one team can win the championship. LeBron isn't the only one not winning. Do we hold it against Kobe that between him getting Shaq and Pau his teams were garbage? He can't do it all by himself people.

No-one is suggesting he can do it alone. That's not really the point I was making. He was making that Cavs team around 06-07 overachieve when they weren't expected to win. The last couple of years, he has entered the NBA playoffs as a favorite to win, and he has fallen short. So the point I am making is, whether he can raise his game and that of his teammates when he's expected to win. That's what Jordan did after the first title, and that's what made him so great.

Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton are all considered all time greats who have never won a championship, and I would think that LeBron will be looked to as as good or better than all of these guys.

Yes, and none of them are considered anywhere near the top ten players because of that lack of winning championships. I don't see where that standard doesn't apply to Lebron as well. The reality is, whether you or I like it or not, leading a team to multiple championships is the barometer for who are the true greats of the NBA. Not amassing eye-popping stats.


Charles Barkley demanded a trade from a team to get into a winning situation. Karl malone tried to jump on a Lakers team in the twilight of his career to chase a ring. Noone cares that they didn't win a ring. People say things like "I wish Patrick had gotten a ring" or "If Jordan hadn't been in the league Malone and Stockton would've gotten a ring" but noone says "Charles Barkley didn't get a ring. He's not one of the top 25 players ever." Whether or not LeBron wins a ring, he's an all time great.

Those guys would be ranked higher on the all-time list if they led their teams to championships. Notice the names that continuously pop up in the GOAT debate. Jordan. Magic. Bird. Kareem. Kobe. Duncan. Hakeem. Wilt. Russell. What do they all have in common? Multiple championships, in addition to individual dominance. Lebron WILL NOT be in that conversation, unless he leads a team to a few rings.Period.

I replied before seeing your last point, but his hype is not his fault. LeBron cannot be blamed for what you and I expected him to do.

Lebron has gone on record as saying something like 'A Lebron James led team always has a chance to win'. If that's not touting your own horn, I don't know what is. Yeah, he's been the recipient of hype coming in. He also has said certain things over the years that fuels that hype. You think someone who's been referred to as 'King' since he was a teenager doesn't have an overinflated view of himself? Was he not the one who said the Heat will win 7 championships? When you talk the talk, you better be prepared to walk the walk.


If he isn't the best player ever when it's all said and done, is that an underachievement?

In my opinion yes, because he has all-time great talent. There's no reason why this guy,from a standpoint of talent and potential, can't be in the same stratosphere as guys like Jordan and Magic. NO REASON. The question is, how bad does he want it? You mention guys like Barkley and Ewing, Malone etc. I think you know that Lebron isn't going to be judged by the standards of those guys. He's being judged by the standards of guys like Jordan and Bird.

Bold reply

[Subversion]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

LeBron nicknamed himself King James, by the way.

Also, got "Chosen 1" tattooed on his back.

And Nike told us that we are all "witness"

In case thats not enough, LeBron chooses to talk in 3rd person half the time. "LeBron stays humble by being LeBron."

The guy is a human train wreck and 99% of NBA fans realize it and are loving it at this point.

edit: And just so we're clear...anyone who gets "chosen 1" on their back and throws chalk into the air before every basketball game, including road games, holding their arms in the air and posing like we should worship them...deserves every single ounce of hate they get.

Good examples of how self-centered, egomaniacs his generation of youngs can be. Hes not self-effacing like Jordan and Kobe.

The difference between greatness and overhyped is greatness will show you defense, offense and chanpionships while hype will show you tatoos and toss chalk.

Toss LeBron into the Vince Carter bin. Coulda, woulda, didnt.

[Subversion]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Exactly. A monster in high school. And given a 90 million dollar contract by Nike before he ever set foot on the NBA floor. That's called being given everything before you earned it. Unless you count him earning it as being a monster in high school against vastly overmatched opponents. Otherwise......

My point summed up. Spoiled from the get go, nothing left to prove, he has it all and left his pride at the door.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><tr><td style="background-image: url(&quot;/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif&quot; width: 37px; height: 1px;" width="37">
</td> <td style="background-image: url(&quot;/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif&quot; width: 100%; height: 1px;" width="100%"> He was annointed the King because he was an absolute monster in high school, because he destroyed everyone he faced at that level, and because his last name is James. Let's not act as if this King this is anything more than a nickname.

Exactly. A monster in high school. And given a 90 million dollar contract by Nike before he ever set foot on the NBA floor. That's called being given everything before you earned it. Unless you count him earning it as being a monster in high school against vastly overmatched opponents. Otherwise......

I understand what you're saying about his performances, but only one team can win the championship. LeBron isn't the only one not winning. Do we hold it against Kobe that between him getting Shaq and Pau his teams were garbage? He can't do it all by himself people.

No-one is suggesting he can do it alone. That's not really the point I was making. He was making that Cavs team around 06-07 overachieve when they weren't expected to win. The last couple of years, he has entered the NBA playoffs as a favorite to win, and he has fallen short. So the point I am making is, whether he can raise his game and that of his teammates when he's expected to win. That's what Jordan did after the first title, and that's what made him so great.

Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton are all considered all time greats who have never won a championship, and I would think that LeBron will be looked to as as good or better than all of these guys.

Yes, and none of them are considered anywhere near the top ten players because of that lack of winning championships. I don't see where that standard doesn't apply to Lebron as well. The reality is, whether you or I like it or not, leading a team to multiple championships is the barometer for who are the true greats of the NBA. Not amassing eye-popping stats.


Charles Barkley demanded a trade from a team to get into a winning situation. Karl malone tried to jump on a Lakers team in the twilight of his career to chase a ring. Noone cares that they didn't win a ring. People say things like "I wish Patrick had gotten a ring" or "If Jordan hadn't been in the league Malone and Stockton would've gotten a ring" but noone says "Charles Barkley didn't get a ring. He's not one of the top 25 players ever." Whether or not LeBron wins a ring, he's an all time great.

Those guys would be ranked higher on the all-time list if they led their teams to championships. Notice the names that continuously pop up in the GOAT debate. Jordan. Magic. Bird. Kareem. Kobe. Duncan. Hakeem. Wilt. Russell. What do they all have in common? Multiple championships, in addition to individual dominance. Lebron WILL NOT be in that conversation, unless he leads a team to a few rings.Period.

I replied before seeing your last point, but his hype is not his fault. LeBron cannot be blamed for what you and I expected him to do.

Lebron has gone on record as saying something like 'A Lebron James led team always has a chance to win'. If that's not touting your own horn, I don't know what is. Yeah, he's been the recipient of hype coming in. He also has said certain things over the years that fuels that hype. You think someone who's been referred to as 'King' since he was a teenager doesn't have an overinflated view of himself? Was he not the one who said the Heat will win 7 championships? When you talk the talk, you better be prepared to walk the walk.


If he isn't the best player ever when it's all said and done, is that an underachievement?

In my opinion yes, because he has all-time great talent. There's no reason why this guy,from a standpoint of talent and potential, can't be in the same stratosphere as guys like Jordan and Magic. NO REASON. The question is, how bad does he want it? You mention guys like Barkley and Ewing, Malone etc. I think you know that Lebron isn't going to be judged by the standards of those guys. He's being judged by the standards of guys like Jordan and Bird.
</td></tr></tr></tbody></table>

He was given that huge endorsement deal by Nike because they saw what he was going to be and gave him that money based on what he showed them. He was basically being given the money in advance and I'm sure they don't regret that contract now. Whether or not he had earned it then, he's earned it now so what difference does it make?

I would say that just getting to the first seed with those Cavaliers teams clearly showed that he was making his teammates better but again, it's not that his team wasn't good, it's that the Celtics team was better. Whether or not his teams have had a better record, the Cavaliers have at no point been the best team in the league.

None of them are considered anywhere near the top 10? You don't consider Charles Barkley or Karl Malone anywhere near the top 10? They are probably the 2nd and 3rd best players at their position all time. Charles Barkley is considered one of the top 5 rebounders of all time and wasn't 6 and a half feet tall, many consider him the greatest rebounder ever. You're saying that the reason he isn't considered in the top 10 is because he never won a championship? Karl Malone was an absolute choke artist, but if he had won a championship and sucked in the finals, he would be considered a better player? I don't think so.

What do all of those guys have in common? They all played at some point in their career on one of the top 15 teams of all time. That's what they have in common. LeBron hasn't had that chance, and he may be getting it now, but as of right now, that chapter isn't written. The bottom line is whether or not he wins a title, he'll be considered an all time great. Top 50? Definitely. Top 15? Probably. Top 5? Who knows? But he will be one of the greats with or without a ring.

Does he have an overinflated view of himself? Probably, but I'm not discussing his qualities as a person. This is about him as a basketball player, not him as a good samaritan, and as a basketball player, at this point, it would be hard for me to say that I was dissapointed in him or that he hasn't done all he could. Did he quit on his team last year? I think so. But is that the worst thing someone has done? Kobe publicly threw his teammates under the bus, brought bad press to his team with a rape trial, had the most dominant player in the league traded, and his legacy is untouched if you ask most people. All I'm saying is, LeBron as a basketball player has not disappointed. As a person, I understand many are upset. But again, he is a great talent, and a great basketball player, and that's what I want to see.

Like I said, I strongly dislike LeBron partly for the way he left Cleveland, and for the way he held the league hostage (when I believe Miami was the plan from the beginning), but LeBron as a basketball player is tough to deny, and there is no doubt in my mind that at this pace, he will be a top 10 player of all time. Will he win a title or two? Probably, but does he have to? Not in my mind. I don't look at Magic or Bird any differently that Barkley and Ewing (i'm talking about their titles, obviously the first two were far better players). They were better because they were better, not because they won championships.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Toss LeBron into the Vince Carter bin. Coulda, woulda, didnt.

If that is honestly your opinion of him, talking about a 25 year old like he's already retired, then there is no need to even try to have a legitimate discussion. You clearly won't be swayed.

Self effacing like Jordan and Kobe? Give me a break. See Kobe (requesting trade in the offseason, throwing teammates under the bus) and Jordan (widely accepted to have been a jerk and horrible teammate in his early years).

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Lol at vince carter, carter never led a team to the finals nor won multiple mvps