The LeBron James Thread

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

So Magic and Bird were in their prime when Jordan came along?

[PrettyT11]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Whenever I see or hear someone say Jordan beat a past prime Magic and old Lakers team all I do is laugh at the foolishness. Clearly they didn't or wasn't watching then. First of all that team was not old. Magic was the only starter on that team 30 years old. The average age of the starting lineup was 28 which is the same exact average age of the Bulls starters. Granted the Lakers was not as good as the title teams of the late 80's but they was still a very damn good basketball team.

As far as Magic goes there was no such thing as a past prime or old Magic. Magic retired because of illness not loss of skills or injuries. He had just won back to back MVP's the years before they played the Bulls and three of the last 5. That so called old/past prime Magic put up 19,13,and 7 while shooting 48 percent from the field and 90 percent from the free throw line. Those are numbers todays PG's dream of. When Magic retired he was still clearly the best PG in the world and easily could have played more All NBA level basketball for years.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Whenever I see or hear someone say Jordan beat a past prime Magic and old Lakers team all I do is laugh at the foolishness. Clearly they didn't or wasn't watching then. First of all that team was not old. Magic was the only starter on that team 30 years old. The average age of the starting lineup was 28 which is the same exact average age of the Bulls starters. Granted the Lakers was not as good as the title teams of the late 80's but they was still a very damn good basketball team.

As far as Magic goes there was no such thing as a past prime or old Magic. Magic retired because of illness not loss of skills or injuries. He had just won back to back MVP's the years before they played the Bulls and three of the last 5. That so called old/past prime Magic put up 19,13,and 7 while shooting 48 percent from the field and 90 percent from the free throw line. Those are numbers todays PG's dream of. When Magic retired he was still clearly the best PG in the world and easily could have played more All NBA level basketball for years.

Not to mention that Jordan scored 63 against a Bird team that only lost one game at home in the Garden that year. With a team that was utterly horrible. Larry Bird said it best, "God in Basketball shoes."

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

This was a nice post with the exception of this paragraph.

To say the NBA was weak during Jordan's championship reign is, frankly, just false. Aging Lakers and Celtics is all you came up with? What about Malone and Stockton? Kevin Johnson/Charles Barkley's Suns? Hakeem and the Rockets? Shaq's Magic? Clyde's Blazers? Hello? Did you watch the NBA in the 90s?

You're talking a whole bunch about single player teams with complementary players and teams with two stars. The Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers were all on the downswing thanks to age. The quality of play in the NBA was regressing. But that's not a reason to disqualify one champion in favor of the other.

Then after using "aging Lakers and Celtics" as a knock on Jordan, you come back and say the aging Celtics of today are much better than the top teams of Jordan's era. The Celtics are probably (this is an estimate) the oldest team in the league. The Big 3 are still good but none of them are even near as good as they were when they won it all. And Rondo the best PG in the league? Rondo is top 5-ish, but nobody can objectively say he's better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams. The Celtics are good, but certainly not all-time good. And then you went and said cap space after the Big 3 leave will keep the Celtics a top team.

First of all, this Celtics team isn't going to be measured until the season is over if it wins a title. Second of all, it's really cool that you need to diminish today's NBA for the benefit of yourself, but I didn't say THIS Celtics team was better than any of Jordan's competition. The point of saying "in LeBron's NBA" is that the closest comparison to this Celtics team is the Bad Boy Pistons, but unlike those Pistons, their best player is just hitting his prime. The legitimately great teams in the NBA were littered with aging pieces when Jordan's ascension began in 90-91. The aging team in LeBron's NBA? They have a 24 year old who leads the NBA in assists who just happens to be their best player.

If you want to make this one to one comparison argument, that's fine, but you're doing it with yourself and completely missing the point; the point of that paragraph was to illustrate that James is competing in an era with powers that have huge pieces that are still young, and that if he wanted to give himself the best chance to win, it was in Miami, and the reason for that is because the Cavaliers franchise had no intelligence in how to compose a team that could compete with those.

Are you serious? Cap space? Reach much? Every team in the league has "cap space" when their highest paid players leave. NYK had cap space last year. Are they better than Malone's Jazz? No. Cap space gives potential, but pieces still have to fall into the lap of the team with the cap space for them to become a contender.

Again, you're speaking with only yourself and are showing issues with reading comprehension. Never was it said that cap space equates to greatness. Nobody is saying the Knicks are better than the Jazz. What are you even talking about?

The Lakers are good, too. Great even. But they're aging as well. In 2-3 years Kobe and Pau will be over the hill, and the young Lakers like Bynum will have to step up. This would've been LeBron's time to rise, just like Jordan. Remember that Jordan knocked off the 1991 Lakers in a similar situation. But no, apparently Jordan only won championships because the league was weak.

You can't see it, but I'm shaking my head. Yeah, Jordan beat the Lakers. No, Jordan never beat Showtime. Showtime ended when Kareem retired. Again, it's not a knock; it's fact. The only way it's comparable is Jackson leaves and Pau retires. The Lakers teams of the 80s were over. And, you're arguing that the guy should...do it like Jordan and wait for other players to retire so he can ascend to become a Champion.

The Magic. You said they are a top team because they have "the best center in the league". In every era and year a team has "the best center in the league". Maybe it's Shaq with the Magic, maybe it's Hakeem with the Rockets. It doesn't matter. There's a best center and he belongs to a team. Meaning if that's the only reason the Magic are worth mentioning, they're weakening your argument.

The Heat with only Wade/Bosh are a 3rd-5th seed lock every year, assuming they can secure a defensive presence inside and some role players. But again, they don't compare to any of the teams I listed up top.

The Knicks scenario is another reach, so I won't even touch that.

Nice post, but this paragraph and the idea that Jordan didn't play great teams are both bunk.

SMMFH @ This.

Holy Christ, I get it. You guys are Chicago area fans, and any single time this subject gets brought up, you have to go on this tangent about Jordan and how he did this and that makes him superior to LeBron/ANYONE who has ever played basketball.

I never said Jordan didn't play great teams or great competition. My comment is that when Jordan began his ascent to NBA Champion, he did it when there was a wrinkle in the NBA top teams of the league where he was in the best situation with young horses in comparison to the aging legs of those that were the powerhouses of the era. Jordan's run is an era change not simply because of him; it's an era change because the window had closed for the Showtime Lakers, the Bird Celtics, and was rapidly closing for the Pistons. They beat the NBA Champions to get there. It was his time.

And the entire argument is based on this thought process that "Jordan stayed and fought through it all, which makes him tougher than James, because James should've stayed and done it like him". It's two DIFFERENT NBA's. The composition of the elite teams, of the NBA Champions, hasn't gotten to the point where there would ever be a clear break for the Cavaliers to become NBA Champions unless they were able to corral another megastar to play alongside James. You can say whatever you want about how Bosh/Wade would've only been a three seed in the East, or you can say whatever you want about the potential of the Knicks, or the Magic, or the Lakers, but the fact is, those teams are young enough and were all going to be better situations than the Cavaliers were. He was going to have to slam into teams that were of much better composition than his own.

That's the argument. That's the difference. You and your kind are the ones that are having to beat other people's heads over this Jordan deal. To be honest? A great many people don't even care. That guy is too busy chilling on golf courses and ruining the Bobcats. That guy is too busy being the champion of Kwame Brown number one in the NBA draft.

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You just compared the Celtics to the Bad Boys.

I almost vomited.


Clearly you have to diminish yesterday's NBA to make a point. Sad.

Oh well.

Spoiler

For ****s and condescending giggles: SMMFH

[23]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yeah im 23 and yes I think its ridiculous to go on a Jordan tirade in a LeBron James thread

so.... get off of it and stay on LeBron James... this is a warning

[dragonyeuw]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

1) but for people to try to act like the only reason people had a problem with the special is because he didn't stay in Cleveland is just ridiculous. No matter where he chose to go people were going to continue dissing that hour long special.

2)knowing that cameras would be setup in Cleveland to capture the absolute moment that he ripped the heart out of a city that was already a laughing stock throughout the country and panned for the sports misery it'd been through for YEARS.

1) I seriously doubt Lebron would be getting booed all around the country like he betrayed the entire league, had he stayed in Cleveland. At worst Skip Bayless would have gone on his usual anti-Lebron rant, and sportswriters would have made about as much fuss as they did when he walked off the court without shaking hands after losing to the Magic in the 09 playoffs. It would have been a week's talking point, at most.

Beyond that, he would have been hailed for showing loyalty to the Cavs, and the point that the show's proceeds went to charity would have been further highlighted and not pushed to the side. It's highly unlikely we'd still be talking about 'the Decision' 7 months later if Lebron was still in Cleveland carrying a team that is clearly( judging by their current record) and totally dependent on him. I mean really, would fans everywhere be booing a Lebron-led Cavs team right now? Of course not. Would the people of Cleveland have issue with 'the Decision' had he announced he was staying? Of course not. Would Dan Gilbert have gone into a mouth-frothing rage? Of course not. The backlash, the overkill booing is because a perception of betrayal, quitting, and trying to cheat competition has been created. I'm not here to argue those perceptions or to say that they aren't valid, only that we wouldn't be having this conversation if he was still on the Cavs today.

Frankly this whole booing thing has simply become the 'en vogue' thing to do. At this point its pretty tiresome, the guy made a business decision that in retrospect could have been handled with more class, but he's being treated like he raped someone's momma. It's getting ridiculous at this point.

2) You just described exactly why he's gotten the reaction he has. The perception that has been molded into truth by the media and fan backlash hype, is that Lebron betrayed Cleveland and stole a baby's milk. That's how he's being treated. To expand on my point from above, if Lebron on that show said "I made a promise to the city of Cleveland that I will bring them a title. I intend to fulfill that promise", you're telling me this guy wouldn't be considered on another level right now?!! Hell, Cleveland would have probably made him a Saint by now. And people would be talking to his loyalty, not his vanity( going on TV to make the announcement).

Athletes make boneheaded choices every day, Lebron has made some prior to 'the Decision' but it didn't affect his popularity. It is only the perception that he lied and betrayed his hometown, and the 'me too' ripple effect of everyone booing him when he's on the road, that has this whole thing spiraling out of control like he committed treason against America or something. Lebron made a choice that he felt was best for his career in the same manner that the average Joe looks in the classified every week for a job that pays a higher salary, and better benefits than his/her current job. What is 'best for his career' is a completely subjective thing. It could mean chasing championships for the next decade. It could mean he just wanted to play with one of his best friends in the league in Wade. It could mean better money( in this case he took a pay cut, so it's not money), it could mean being able to chill at Miami beaches and stare at hot a$$ every day during the summer. Who knows? End of the day, he made a legitimate, if incredibly flawed and shallow in execution, business decision.

Wow... that's incredibly short-sighted to act like they only lost LeBron.

38 year old Shaq, Delonte West, and 36 year old Big Z would not make any difference between the Cavs being what they are now, and being anywhere close to a playoff team.

As far as Magic goes there was no such thing as a past prime or old Magic. Magic retired because of illness not loss of skills or injuries. He had just won back to back MVP's the years before they played the Bulls and three of the last 5. That so called old/past prime Magic put up 19,13,and 7 while shooting 48 percent from the field and 90 percent from the free throw line. Those are numbers todays PG's dream of. When Magic retired he was still clearly the best PG in the world and easily could have played more All NBA level basketball for years.

Well said. I always have to chuckle when I hear that Jordan beat an old Magic. The guy won the MVP award the prior year. Yeah you could make the argument that the 91 Lakers as a team weren't as good as Showtime, but Magic wasn't remotely close to being over the hill at that point.

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

38 year old Shaq, Delonte West, and 36 year old Big Z would not make any difference between the Cavs being what they are now, and being anywhere close to a playoff team.

I was thinking that with Mike Brown and those 3, the Cavs win ~35 games.

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I was thinking that with Mike Brown and those 3, the Cavs win ~35 games.

i dont think those 3 equal 35 wins for them especially not mike brown!

[Jukeman]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

now Mike Brown is a good coach?

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

now Mike Brown is a good coach?

Where's my strawman?

[dragonyeuw]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I was thinking that with Mike Brown and those 3, the Cavs win ~35 games.

Doubt it. At most 30, and that's assuming the team is fully healthy all year round. Shaq doesn't play the kind of minutes anymore to where you can put the team on his back. Z and Delonte aren't difference makers to any tangible degree. By all accounts, that team totally fed off Lebron, and that hasn't been more obvious than it is now, looking at their record and level of play. It's a team full of complimentary players.

[capp34]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

If Gilbert would not have fired Mike Brown and Danny Ferry Bron might would have stayed because if I remember correctly during the decision he spoke about them being his family and since they were gone it was time for him to go. I know you guys remember when Gilbert got on his high horse and began clearing house without consulting Lebron.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

So LeBron is coming out with a cartoon?... lol I can't wait lol

[rangerrick012]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

If Gilbert would not have fired Mike Brown and Danny Ferry Bron might would have stayed because if I remember correctly during the decision he spoke about them being his family and since they were gone it was time for him to go. I know you guys remember when Gilbert got on his high horse and began clearing house without consulting Lebron.

I don't think so. Even when they tried to bring in a big name guy in Izzo, Bron wouldn't even answer his (Izzo's) calls.