If you decide to take a look, here you go, scroll down and you'll see an extremely efficient Shaq who definitely had a presence on that team.
The LeBron James Thread
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
If you decide to take a look, here you go, scroll down and you'll see an extremely efficient Shaq who definitely had a presence on that team.Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN -
Re: The LeBron James Thread
I don't know if you're missing my point, I'm not following you or you're just going OT. I give Dallas all the credit in the world. But I think it's funny that AFTER they win a championship, these players are looked at much differently than they were before. Nothing wrong with that at all, when we're talking about the Mavs. But comparing them to the Cavs, we have to go by what people thought of them BEFORE they won the championship. Back when people didn't think Dirk was in the same league as Lebron and the players around him weren't close to being able to bring Dallas a championship. This would have to be the argument of anyone who said "Lebron could never win with the sorry supporting cast he had in Cleveland".
The point is simply that Lebron's supposed to be better than Dirk and the supporting cast in Dallas wasn't thought much differently than the one in Cleveland. So the idea that the Cavs could never win with that group loses credibility. If Dallas lost to Portland or OKC, then the same things people are saying about the Cavs supporting cast would continue to be said about the guys around Dirk. And it wouldn't have taken much for either of those teams to have won, or for the Cavs to have beaten the Celtics last year.
Like I said, the team wasn't built like a juggernaut and the idea of repeating would be a stretch... that's a valid argument. But they were good enough to win.
And you may want to go back and see what Shaq did in the playoffs for the Cavs last year.Two years in a row isn't several ex lol. The Cavs core that was together the last two years isn't the same one that got beat in the Finals. The year after the Finals they still had Hughes, Gooden and Eric Snow on that roster. LeBron took the Celtics to seven games by himself and if they had ONE more scorer at that time they'd have beaten the Celtics that year as that series came down to a shootout between Pierce and Bron. Defensively they were solid but they were missing that second guy who could put the ball in the basket.
The following year they brought in Mo Williams who was a guy that could hit those shots, who could give them another 19 points in situations like that. Unfortunately Mo ghosted that entire playoffs and they ran into a mismatch against Orlando and they're giant roster of 6'7" and up dudes that can all hit from three. Cool, the next year they surrounded Bron with shooters and brought in Shaq to counter Dwight. Shaq still had gas in the tank as we saw in the Boston series, Bron Bron just choked/quit on them in the middle of the series and convinced his teammates to do the same. Lost in all the 'Cavs supporting cast sucks' discussion is the fact that they were up 2-1 at one point in the series even coming back from being down 11 at the half in game 1 and blowing out the C's IN BOSTON in game 3. Mo improved his playoff performance significantly in his second year in Cleveland and I think he would have played better in year three had Bron not bolted on them to 'Chill' in Miami.
I don't think anyone is trying to take away from Dallas at all ex. It's just pointing out that we don't know everything and everything isn't always exactly what it seems and just adds up to the end result of the last thing you saw all the time. Cavs washed out a few years so automatically we say they never were going to do anything. Meanwhile we didn't give Dallas a chance either at the beginning of the season, in the middle of the season or even at the end of the season to do **** and they ended up doing it all. We can't sit here and say 'well Cleveland didn't have this like Dallas had or this' cause the same trash we're talking about Cleveland's supporting cast is the same thing we were saying about Dallas all year. Nobody was talking about how Kidd was gonna hold things together and not get rattled all year. Nobody was talking about Marion is going to be able to play fantastic defense on whoever's direction you pointed him to and look beautiful offensively at the same time. Nobody was talking about DeShawn Stevenson contributing with big time shots in big time spots. I honestly think with what we know about this year and how it unfolded, with Boston doing what it did to they're team, with Orlando doing what they did to they're team. Bron could have stayed one more year in Cleveland at least and they could have done it this year or at least made the Finals. That's all I'm saying and everyone is jumping on it like it was impossible.
I'm not going to go at this topic anymore because it seems like a circular discussion.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
If you decide to take a look, here you go, scroll down and you'll see an extremely efficient Shaq who definitely had a presence on that team.
And he for sure didn't have the presence Kidd had with Dallas.
Wwharton, it's all good man I don't know how else to explain my side, it's all good. I don't want to bother with this anymore just wait for the next season to come around.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
You know what would have been awesome to see though? If we could go back in time and tell Mo and the rest of the Cavs that Bron was for sure bolting on them in the offseason. Would they all have given up with him in that Celtics series last year? Dude took a much better Celtics team to seven by himself and was just like...two or three points shy of winning that series with a roster that terrible, he has a decidedly better roster and the Celtics are worse than they were that year (still pretty damn good, just not as good as that year) and they're "overmatched" a few years later?Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
And Kidd played well but lets not go crazy here. His work on James had a lot to do with the zone and James himself. Wade was destroying Kidd. On offense, he turned the ball over at an uncharacteristic level and he didn't hit too many shots, though he did hit some big ones. From a different perspective, Shaq most definitely put his stamp on that Boston series to the level of Kidd in the championship. And if we want to compare ECFs, Shaq played better but James and others kept him from getting a chance at showing how much he had left in a Championship series.
I'm not trying to bully you into keeping this going, so if you're done that's cool. But your last post wasn't really much of a reply to me or King B Mack. Unless it's your way of agreeing that it is possible that last year's Cavs were capable (not necessarily likely but definitely capable) of doing what the Mavs did.
It's not that we think they were great or are taking anything away from the Mavs. It's just all the talk of them being horrible is taking it WAY too far.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
I replied to your second post... it had NOTHING to do with what any of us are talking about man. I liked that post bc it's the first time I think you've ever acknowledged even the possibility that the supporting cast of the Cavs could pull it together to help win a championship, which is all any of us are saying.
And Kidd played well but lets not go crazy here. His work on James had a lot to do with the zone and James himself. Wade was destroying Kidd. On offense, he turned the ball over at an uncharacteristic level and he didn't hit too many shots, though he did hit some big ones. From a different perspective, Shaq most definitely put his stamp on that Boston series to the level of Kidd in the championship. And if we want to compare ECFs, Shaq played better but James and others kept him from getting a chance at showing how much he had left in a Championship series.
I'm not trying to bully you into keeping this going, so if you're done that's cool. But your last post wasn't really much of a reply to me or King B Mack. Unless it's your way of agreeing that it is possible that last year's Cavs were capable (not necessarily likely but definitely capable) of doing what the Mavs did.
It's not that we think they were great or are taking anything away from the Mavs. It's just all the talk of them being horrible is taking it WAY too far.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
I replied to your second post... it had NOTHING to do with what any of us are talking about man. I liked that post bc it's the first time I think you've ever acknowledged even the possibility that the supporting cast of the Cavs could pull it together to help win a championship, which is all any of us are saying.
And Kidd played well but lets not go crazy here. His work on James had a lot to do with the zone and James himself. Wade was destroying Kidd. On offense, he turned the ball over at an uncharacteristic level and he didn't hit too many shots, though he did hit some big ones. From a different perspective, Shaq most definitely put his stamp on that Boston series to the level of Kidd in the championship. And if we want to compare ECFs, Shaq played better but James and others kept him from getting a chance at showing how much he had left in a Championship series.
I'm not trying to bully you into keeping this going, so if you're done that's cool. But your last post wasn't really much of a reply to me or King B Mack. Unless it's your way of agreeing that it is possible that last year's Cavs were capable (not necessarily likely but definitely capable) of doing what the Mavs did.
It's not that we think they were great or are taking anything away from the Mavs. It's just all the talk of them being horrible is taking it WAY too far.
And honestly if you think that's the first time I ever said Cleveland could have won a title you're totally off base.
Whatever you were talking about in your initial post, whatever man, I had one take on it but I guess I took it wrong.
All I'm saying is it's not revisionist history when Dallas actually went out there and proved their worth.
Cleveland guys can do the same thing if they were to help another team get a title.
For now it's definitely Dallas cast> Cleveland cast. That's all I'm saying. If that's not what you were even meaning to discuss, my bad.
But you gotta stop with thinking I'm trashing Cleveland's support cast. I have repeatedly said otherwise.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
One of the most important issues that doesn't get mentioned at all, is that Lebron stopped believing in those guys in Cleveland. Once it got to that point it was all over.
He had already brought them so far with his superior physical gifts, what was needed from him was for him to demand more of them and show faith in their ability to take their games to another level, and help him get over the hump. Yes they were less talented then this years Dallas squad, but Lebron was playing at a level to where he didn't need as much support as Dirk did.
The second half of game 5 vs the Celtics last year is when he needed to rally the troops and ask them to dig down and lay it all on the line, because he was going to do so himself, but I don't think he believed they could do it, so instead he waved the white flag.
Is it fair to ask a then 25 year old to be that kind of galvanizing force, I don't know, but as the best player on your team and in the league, its what is expected of you.
This year Lebron seemed to stop believing in himself.Jordan Mychal Lemos
@crypticjordan
Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.
Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.Comment
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Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some
@CDonkey26
Originally posted by baumy300Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
Thanks for that. There must be something up with my computer's settings. I don't have it showing here. Just the quote, multi quote and quick reply buttons.Comment
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Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some
@CDonkey26
Originally posted by baumy300Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
You're not bullying anyone bruh, lol
And honestly if you think that's the first time I ever said Cleveland could have won a title you're totally off base.
Whatever you were talking about in your initial post, whatever man, I had one take on it but I guess I took it wrong.
All I'm saying is it's not revisionist history when Dallas actually went out there and proved their worth.
Cleveland guys can do the same thing if they were to help another team get a title.
For now it's definitely Dallas cast> Cleveland cast. That's all I'm saying. If that's not what you were even meaning to discuss, my bad.
But you gotta stop with thinking I'm trashing Cleveland's support cast. I have repeatedly said otherwise.
BTW, I mentioned my last post on this bc I went into a lot more detail with where I was coming from. It wasn't directed at you, specifically. It was just a comparison between the Mavs around Dirk and the Cavs around Lebron and the different perceptions of players. You HAVE said the Cavs, with Lebron, were not good enough to win a championship. And this is your post that I replied to:
OK this is where I draw the line. Mavs had a much more balanced team, and if you're really gonna compare JKidd to Mo Williams, or Jason Terry to whomever you want from Cleveland, that's on you.
Cleveland never had a guy like Tyson Chandler. Never had a guy like JJ Barrea. Never had a guy like Shawn Marion.
So let's leave it there man.
You're probably not using the default skin.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
Whatever man, people do change their opinions just FYI. Try not to box people into comments that were probably made a year ago maybe more.
I may have said CLE couldn't win in the past, but as many others will tell you, I have repeatedly said CLE was good enough, I just wouldn't expect them to beat Boston/LA or even Orlando in 2008 or even some of the other contenders of the time. That doesn't mean they couldn't, it means they would be less favored.
Carry on with whatever else you're talking about because I'm not so sure what that is.Comment
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