The LeBron James Thread

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Personally it's a combo of a lot of things when I judge benches.

Which pure skill does each specific player offer, are they a liability either offensively/defensively, can they be depended upon in big moments, could any of them be potential starters on other teams etc etc...

Outside of Miller, Miami has two one-dimensional spot up shooters who suck defensively [House/James], they have Big Z who is a good jump shooter and OK post presence defensively, but I wouldn't depend on him to play more than 15 minutes a game.

Talking long term so have to include Haslem too. Gotta give him some props even though I think he should be playing PF, not next to Bosh for any long stretches.

Good question, PPM. No matter the answer, it'd be hard to find data to support anything. For me with this Heat team, I'm looking at where players are in their careers, what they've done on other teams and what they've done this year. One clear example is any team still giving Juwan Howard minutes is lacking in solid players on the bench.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Warning: Turn down volume.

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[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

My question to everyone, which I don't think has one answer:

How do you judge how good a bench is? Is it by how well they spell the guy they're playing behind? Is it just by their name? How do you determine who has a good bench and who doesn't have one?

All 3 guys can play 40 minute games. You can have LeBron sit early and then come back later. Or Wade sit early and come back later. And they won't be that much of a drop off. I think your always going to have one of them out there no matter what. I just think they have to trust each other more. Even when someone is missing.

[DW3]

OK but Howard off Orlando's bench? That wouldn't make much sense, as they don't even have a backup center.

Obviously you have to judge each team a bit differently. With Mike Miller starting at the 2, it would give a lot more flexibility to the starting lineup, and would make James the unrivaled leader of the offense. It would push Bosh to the true #2, which would also be a positive for his psyche and his involvement on both ends of the floor.

But yes, like I said it won't happen. Politics/PR wouldn't let it. Theoretically speaking it would make sense.

As far as James being clutch I don't think you need stats to prove my statement to be true. His clutch moments are well documented, but you're right it would be nice to have some proof. I don't have any nor do I know where to look, but just off the top of my head I can remember the past two seasons where he's been killing at the end of close games.

I see your side ex, but why should wade come off the bench? It's his team. He has the ring. I really think a true offensive gameplan doesn't exist. Sure Spo calls a few plays , but for the most part they are basically isoing out of the pick n roll with James having the ball most of the time



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[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Nice pull, Pared. I'd focus more on % and attempts... I need to look at that closer. Can probably find a way to get what I'm looking for there.

It shows the % and stuff on that page too in one of the columns. Lebron's % is actualy higher than Kobe this year, he's just sucked on the final possession, whereas 82games looks at clutch as the last 5 minutes of close games.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It shows the % and stuff on that page too in one of the columns. Lebron's % is actualy higher than Kobe this year, he's just sucked on the final possession, whereas 82games looks at clutch as the last 5 minutes of close games.

Yeah I saw %, but I'd like to see it related to that time frame you're talking about and I'd like to see the actual attempts... and some other things. But beggers (or lazy people) can't be choosers so props to Pared for linking that one. Actually pretty cool that they have that at all.

[23]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

James is second behind Kobe. Interesting to see Stat make such a high jump this year.

Youre looking only at points but not FGA or FG %

If that is the case then its

Kobe - 37.5 FGA at .412%

LeBron - 28.5 FGA at .439%


LeBron's not behind Kobe, but I think he might have dipped in % in Miami

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I see your side ex, but why should wade come off the bench? It's his team. He has the ring. I really think a true offensive gameplan doesn't exist. Sure Spo calls a few plays , but for the most part they are basically isoing out of the pick n roll with James having the ball most of the time



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I dunno, if we're worried about who's team it is then I guess that's a different discussion. I was just speaking purely in hyptheticals, as I really don't see them ever putting Wade on the bench hahaha.

I feel that Bosh would be used much better and much more and would produce with him being the undisputed 2nd option.

It shows the % and stuff on that page too in one of the columns. Lebron's % is actualy higher than Kobe this year, he's just sucked on the final possession, whereas 82games looks at clutch as the last 5 minutes of close games.

Yep, exactly what I mentioned earlier, he hasn't had the clutch moments this year as opposed to previous ones.

Please, someone look at Wade's numbers against the top teams. The guy has disappeared as much as anyone on Miami when it matters.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I dunno, if we're worried about who's team it is then I guess that's a different discussion. I was just speaking purely in hyptheticals, as I really don't see them ever putting Wade on the bench hahaha.

I feel that Bosh would be used much better and much more and would produce with him being the undisputed 2nd option.

Yep, exactly what I mentioned earlier, he hasn't had the clutch moments this year as opposed to previous ones.

Please, someone look at Wade's numbers against the top teams. The guy has disappeared as much as anyone on Miami when it matters.

Yeah, I have to add that Wade is stinking it up too. My comments are based on what I think would work... definitely not based on Lebron's performance vs Wade's, lol.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I dunno, if we're worried about who's team it is then I guess that's a different discussion. I was just speaking purely in hyptheticals, as I really don't see them ever putting Wade on the bench hahaha.

I feel that Bosh would be used much better and much more and would produce with him being the undisputed 2nd option.

Yep, exactly what I mentioned earlier, he hasn't had the clutch moments this year as opposed to previous ones.

Please, someone look at Wade's numbers against the top teams. The guy has disappeared as much as anyone on Miami when it matters.

According to 82games, he's shooting somewhere around 32-34% in the last 5 minutes of close games this year. I know that isn't exactly what you were looking for, but I think it kinda shows how much he's struggled in crunch time this year.

[Altimus]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Isn't the stat something like 2/24 in the final 10 seconds of games 3 points or less? Just an amazing statistic.

[Scott812313]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Miller is a borderline all star in the NBA when healthy. I still think he's the biggest addition going forward. Jones looks like he can be a solid contributor too. Haslem has proven his worth over the years, he's just hurt right now. Chalmers doesn't look like much but not ready to close the book on him yet.

The problem is the drop off after that group (and even including that group with injuries). But they can pick up pieces for specific roles through the draft or even trades. It'll be possible. They don't need to look for stars or even budding stars. They need defensive specialists, shot blockers, three point shooters... the price won't be too high for specialty areas. The question is can they withstand the pressure for a year or (God forbid) two before getting all the right pieces and the chemistry down?

Not going to lie, I'd love to see them self destruct... even better would be Wade getting traded to Chicago. But realistically, everything we either hoped for or feared is possible... it was just never likely in year one.

Couldn't disagree more. Miller has been a shell of himself for the better part of the last 3 seasons. Miami tried to GIVE him away at the trade deadline to no avail obviously....

[Pared]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Youre looking only at points but not FGA or FG %

If that is the case then its

Kobe - 37.5 FGA at .412%

LeBron - 28.5 FGA at .439%


LeBron's not behind Kobe, but I think he might have dipped in % in Miami

I was just backing up the point that we can't just say LBJ isn't clutch now. Even if he is 1-7 in last shots for the year, think about all the shots he made to put his team in that position.

I don't think clutch should just equate with game winning shots.

[capp34]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I don't think clutch should just equate with game winning shots.

I forgot exactly how much time was left but after the Bulls went up by six Bron hit a critical jumper to stop their run and help the Heat get back in it. I think clutch should be about the situation instead of time left on the clock.

[Wang Chung]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I forgot exactly how much time was left but after the Bulls went up by six Bron hit a critical jumper to stop their run and help the Heat get back in it. I think clutch should be about the situation instead of time left on the clock.

Didnt Chalmers score 5 of their 7 points on their 7-0 run to surge ahead?