The LeBron James Thread

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  • ehh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 28962

    #9526
    Re: The LeBron James Thread

    Originally posted by Bumi

    Secondly, Marion isn't Dallas best defender. Chandler is. And if you're supposedly GOAT material, and the best player in the league, you most definitely shouldn't be held to 20/6/5 in the finals against Shawn Marion. For a little perspective, Durant posted 29/9/4 against Marion and didn't play particularly well.
    And to boot....

    LeBron James is averaging 22 points, 8.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in the first two games. These are strong numbers but off his pace from the regular season and the first three rounds of the playoffs, when he successfully outplayed Andre Iguodala, Paul Pierce and Luol Deng.

    Shawn Marion averaged just 12.5 points a game in the regular season and in the first two rounds of the playoffs put up less than 10 points per game.

    So far in the Finals, Marion is averaging 18 points, 9 rebounds and 3.5 assists. James is shooting 55 percent, and he's drawn praise for having the best run of jump shooting in his career. But Marion has been even better, shooting 57 percent. Much of that has come with James, by most accounts the defensive MVP of the postseason, as his primary defender.
    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

    Comment

    • Yeah...THAT Guy
      Once in a Lifetime Memory
      • Dec 2006
      • 17294

      #9527
      Re: The LeBron James Thread

      Originally posted by Bumi
      Some of your post are just... strange.

      First and foremost, Wade hasn't been sub par throughout the playoffs. He killed the Celtics, and he's killing the Mavs.

      Secondly, Marion isn't Dallas best defender. Chandler is. And if you're supposedly GOAT material, and the best player in the league, you most definitely shouldn't be held to 20/6/5 in the finals against Shawn Marion. For a little perspective, Durant posted 29/9/4 against Marion and didn't play particularly well.

      Also, you keep saying Wade has an easy match up, but this is the same Jason Kidd that stifled Kobe in round two, and was consistently switching on and off Durant in round 3. He's a great on ball defender, and always has been.

      And of course his title will be talked down, as it should be. It's the price of playing Robin.
      Yeah man, Wade only struggled with Chicago. And even with the horrible series he had against Chicago, he's still shooting a higher % from the floor than LeBron and he's absolutely carried them the last two games while LeBron has been quiet.

      I don't see LeBron getting a title this year any more impressive than Kobe winning with Shaq. People say all the time that Kobe really only won 2 rings and even that is debateable because Pau was better than Kobe last year or whatever. If people can say that, then I don't see any reason why we should give LeBron more credit for obviously being the 2nd banana so far in the series. LeBron's been off his game while Wade has set the tone both offensively and defensively for the Heat, and outside of Wade, they've gotten pretty close to nothing out of their halfcourt offense.
      NFL: Bills
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      Comment

      • BaselineBakes
        MVP
        • Dec 2006
        • 1510

        #9528
        @ Bumi

        How do you play up Durant's 29 a game and then praise JKidds defense on him?

        If you can't see that Kidd is completely overmatched by Wade by just watching the games I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should count Durant's shot attempts vs Lebrons against Matrix and you'll get a better perception on the situation.

        Comment

        • Bumi
          Banned
          • Sep 2010
          • 967

          #9529
          Re: The LeBron James Thread

          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          LOL so you rather Tyson guard LeBron?
          You're really going to have to work on your reading comprehension my friend. At no point did I imply Tyson should be guarding LeBron(Though Taj Gibson and Omer Asik caused him issues when switching off and on him in the conference finals). You made an incorrect statement, and I objected. That's it, that's all.

          D.Wade has been subpar this post season.
          This statement makes absolutely no sense.

          LBJ: 25.1/8.5/5.6/.575 TS%
          Wade: 24.6/7.4/4.2/.566 TS%

          And that's with James playing 77 more minutes than Wade thus far through the playoffs. So if Wade has been "sub par", as you put it, and has looked injured; What does that say about James?


          Before the series started people were questioning his health. Wade's a superstar so subpar for him isn't the same for another lesser player. A 32 year old Kobe is a better match up for a 38 year old Kidd than a 28 year old Wade. If you think Kidd is a better perimeter defender than Matrix than so be it.
          I don't even know how to respond to this.

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #9530
            Re: The LeBron James Thread

            Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
            Yeah man, Wade only struggled with Chicago. And even with the horrible series he had against Chicago, he's still shooting a higher % from the floor than LeBron and he's absolutely carried them the last two games while LeBron has been quiet.

            I don't see LeBron getting a title this year any more impressive than Kobe winning with Shaq. People say all the time that Kobe really only won 2 rings and even that is debateable because Pau was better than Kobe last year or whatever. If people can say that, then I don't see any reason why we should give LeBron more credit for obviously being the 2nd banana so far in the series. LeBron's been off his game while Wade has set the tone both offensively and defensively for the Heat, and outside of Wade, they've gotten pretty close to nothing out of their halfcourt offense.
            This is what people meant when they compared James to Pippen, or Magic even. It wasn't a knock then but it shouldn't be one now either. The way the Heat are currently playing is how it needs to be for them to have the highest level of success imo (even though I still think they should be going through Bosh more). James isn't off his game at all, if you ask me. He's distributing the ball well, getting out of Wade's way, taking advantage of the easy opportunities he gets and being the leader on defense (and lets be real, the Heat are where they are bc of the D they've been playing).

            Kobe has been criticized like that but I don't think it's warranted. If you don't either, you can't use it as a reason James should be too. I don't think the guy will be the best NBA player ever at the end of the day bc this is who he is, but I also think we fight too hard to have someone take that seat. What he is is nothing to sneeze at, and if he gets a couple of titles he'll still have a nice seat at the table. I just need him to grow the hell up.

            Comment

            • BaselineBakes
              MVP
              • Dec 2006
              • 1510

              #9531
              Originally posted by Bumi
              LBJ: 25.1/8.5/5.6/.575 TS%
              Wade: 24.6/7.4/4.2/.566 TS%

              And that's with James playing 77 more minutes than Wade thus far through the playoffs. So if Wade has been "sub par", as you put it, and has looked injured; What does that say about James?
              Well then doesn't that make Lebrons postseason more impressive considering the better number that you yourself put up and amount of extended time he's spent guarding the other teams best player? Igoudala, Pierce, Rose, Deng, Marion, Terry while Wade has had his turn with Evan Turner, Ray Allen, Keith Bogans, JKidd, and Deshawn Stevenson.

              Your numbers just prove his prowess on offense and in turn playing big minutes on the other teams elite players on defense.

              Comment

              • Drewski
                Basketball Reasons
                • Jun 2011
                • 3783

                #9532
                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                Originally posted by wwharton
                This is what people meant when they compared James to Pippen, or Magic even. It wasn't a knock then but it shouldn't be one now either. The way the Heat are currently playing is how it needs to be for them to have the highest level of success imo (even though I still think they should be going through Bosh more). James isn't off his game at all, if you ask me. He's distributing the ball well, getting out of Wade's way, taking advantage of the easy opportunities he gets and being the leader on defense (and lets be real, the Heat are where they are bc of the D they've been playing).

                Kobe has been criticized like that but I don't think it's warranted. If you don't either, you can't use it as a reason James should be too. I don't think the guy will be the best NBA player ever at the end of the day bc this is who he is, but I also think we fight too hard to have someone take that seat. What he is is nothing to sneeze at, and if he gets a couple of titles he'll still have a nice seat at the table. I just need him to grow the hell up.
                Im in this same boat. I dont think that Lebron not being "that guy" on the Heat matters much. As long as he's playing to the best of his current abilities, and contributing to those elusive 16 playoff victories, more power to him (not tha the needs it). I don't think Lebron will -ever- be considered in the same vein as a Pippen, not to say ones better than the other, but they're different players in that I think Lebron will be considered more dominant and impactful for his teams success than Pippen as.

                Lebrons a great, great player, it's just become more difficult than ever this year to objectively appreciate that aspect.
                Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

                Comment

                • Bumi
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 967

                  #9533
                  Re: The LeBron James Thread

                  Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                  Wade played pretty bad against Chicago on both ends.
                  Indeed. And LeBron has struggled mightily against Dallas, in the finals, on the highest stage. He can't get to the basket at will, and his jumper isn't falling. If he isn't scoring in transition, he's struggling to put in buckets. Nearly half of his points yesterday came from breaks initiated by Wade.

                  Also, we wont bring up the fact that it Wade he who sparked the comeback in game 5, and played tremendously well in the overtime game(in overtime).

                  Rose made him look foolish anytime they got matched up.
                  No, he didn't.

                  It wasn't until James guarded Rose that the series tilted towards Miami. He locked the MVP up and showed why he is Miami's best defender, not Wade.
                  People want to credit Jame's for Rose's struggles, yet fail to acknowledge that Rose had struggled throughout the playoffs. Paul George was locking Rose up in round 1. The lowly Pacers held him 41% shooting. James spent less than 10% of the Miami series guarding Rose, yet even still, Rose was held to 34% shooting for the series.

                  And Yes, James is great when he dwarfs the opposition. But what, outside of making him appear to be 5 years younger, has James done against Marion?

                  James hasn't played bad in any series, unless you want to count the Finals as James playing bad.
                  I count the finals.

                  James also killed Boston and killed Chicago.
                  Wade posted better numbers against Boston than LeBron did.

                  Durant shot awful against Marion and wasn't able to ever free himself in the crucial moments of games from Marion's defense.
                  Yet he performed markedly better against Marion than LeBron has. Imagine that.

                  Chandler is Dallas' best defender? Sure maybe, but not by much. Marion is still as stout as they come on the perimeter, and he can also guard a lot of PF's as well.
                  Chandler is the best defender on Dallas, and it isn't even close. He changed the mentality of that team, and they're actually a competent defensive team because of him.

                  Comment

                  • Bumi
                    Banned
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 967

                    #9534
                    Re: The LeBron James Thread

                    Originally posted by BaselineBakes
                    @ Bumi

                    How do you play up Durant's 29 a game and then praise JKidds defense on him?
                    I don't understand your question? Kidd wasn't Durant's primary defender, Marion was.

                    If you can't see that Kidd is completely overmatched by Wade by just watching the games I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should count Durant's shot attempts vs Lebrons against Matrix and you'll get a better perception on the situation.
                    Or you can check the TS% yourself, and realize there isn't a significant difference between the two.(LeBron & Durant)

                    Comment

                    • jeebs9
                      Fear is the Unknown
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 47568

                      #9535
                      Re: The LeBron James Thread

                      Bumi is hell bent lol
                      Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                      Comment

                      • Bumi
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 967

                        #9536
                        Re: The LeBron James Thread

                        Originally posted by BaselineBakes
                        Well then doesn't that make Lebrons postseason more impressive considering the better number that you yourself put up and amount of extended time he's spent guarding the other teams best player? Igoudala, Pierce, Rose, Deng, Marion, Terry while Wade has had his turn with Evan Turner, Ray Allen, Keith Bogans, JKidd, and Deshawn Stevenson.

                        Your numbers just prove his prowess on offense and in turn playing big minutes on the other teams elite players on defense.
                        No, those numbers prove that this "Wade was sub par during the playoffs" is simply a myth. He had a terrible series against Chicago, yet his numbers remain almost identical to James's.

                        Comment

                        • ex carrabba fan
                          I'll thank him for you
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 32744

                          #9537
                          Re: The LeBron James Thread

                          Originally posted by Bumi
                          Indeed. And LeBron has struggled mightily against Dallas, in the finals, on the highest stage. He can't get to the basket at will, and his jumper isn't falling. If he isn't scoring in transition, he's struggling to put in buckets. Nearly half of his points yesterday came from breaks initiated by Wade.

                          Also, we wont bring up the fact that it Wade he who sparked the comeback in game 5, and played tremendously well in the overtime game(in overtime).



                          No, he didn't.



                          People want to credit Jame's for Rose's struggles, yet fail to acknowledge that Rose had struggled throughout the playoffs. Paul George was locking Rose up in round 1. The lowly Pacers held him 41% shooting. James spent less than 10% of the Miami series guarding Rose, yet even still, Rose was held to 34% shooting for the series.

                          And Yes, James is great when he dwarfs the opposition. But what, outside of making him appear to be 5 years younger, has James done against Marion?



                          I count the finals.



                          Wade posted better numbers against Boston than LeBron did.



                          Yet he performed markedly better against Marion than LeBron has. Imagine that.



                          Chandler is the best defender on Dallas, and it isn't even close. He changed the mentality of that team, and they're actually a competent defensive team because of him.
                          Rose doesn't shoot a great percentage to begin with. It's what he does to cause havoc in the lane and creating offense for others... that's what made him MVP and why he is superior to your boy Russell Westbrook.

                          Rose had Wade on skates the entire series. He got wherever he wanted to when Wade was guarding him.

                          James didn't let Rose navigate, didn't let him probe, didn't let him shoot, didn't let him create. He shut him down.

                          Sure, Marion is having a nice series offensively against James, but let's not act as if James isn't setting the tone overall for their stout defense in the series. He and Wade are both having nice games defensively against Dallas.

                          Comment

                          • jeebs9
                            Fear is the Unknown
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 47568

                            #9538
                            Re: The LeBron James Thread

                            I was just reading this article that LeBron still leads the team in points, assist, rebounds (second to bosh) and steals and blocks during the playoffs. Even though at first glance people will say Wade has been carrying the team.
                            Last edited by jeebs9; 06-06-2011, 03:15 PM.
                            Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                            Comment

                            • BaselineBakes
                              MVP
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 1510

                              #9539
                              Re: The LeBron James Thread

                              Originally posted by Bumi
                              I don't understand your question? Kidd wasn't Durant's primary defender, Marion was.
                              well you said it yourself ...

                              Originally posted by Bumi
                              Also, you keep saying Wade has an easy match up, but this is the same Jason Kidd that stifled Kobe in round two, and was consistently switching on and off Durant in round 3. He's a great on ball defender, and always has been.
                              If he consistently switched off on him and Durant played well as your proclaiming then your saying Kidd did a poor job on defense.

                              Originally posted by Bumi
                              Or you can check the TS% yourself, and realize there isn't a significant difference between the two.(LeBron & Durant)
                              TS% won't show me how many plays Lebron has made for his team at critical times this postseason, while Durant continuously got pushed off his spots and pretty much straight up denied the ball in crunch time.

                              Originally posted by Bumi
                              No, those numbers prove that this "Wade was sub par during the playoffs" is simply a myth. He had a terrible series against Chicago, yet his numbers remain almost identical to James's.
                              Also, I'm not the one who said Wade has been sub-par, I think Wade has been terrific, excluding the Chicago series, but I also think Lebron has been terrific, including the Chicago series. SO if you believe Wade has been very good this postseason why don't you say the same for Lebron who has had comparable/better numbers.
                              Last edited by BaselineBakes; 06-06-2011, 03:08 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Bumi
                                Banned
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 967

                                #9540
                                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                                Originally posted by BaselineBakes
                                well you said it yourself... If he consistently switched off on him and Durant played well as your proclaiming then your saying Kidd did a poor job on defense.
                                Yes, he switched with Marion on and off of Durant. Despite this, Marion was undoubtedly his primary defender. Durant still go his points, he's an elite scorer. That doesn't make the defender bad. So, I still fail to see your point?

                                TS% won't show me how many plays Lebron has made for his team at critical times this postseason, while Durant continuously got pushed off his spots and pretty much straight up denied the ball in crunch time.
                                You're the one that asked about shot attempts or something.

                                Also, I'm not the one who said Wade has been sub-par, I think Wade has been terrific, excluding the Chicago series, but I also think Lebron has been terrific, including the Chicago series. SO if you believe Wade has been very good this postseason why don't you say the same for Lebron who has had comparable/better numbers.
                                When did I say James hasn't had a good post season?

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