How many years does Kobe have left...

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  • ehh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 28962

    #61
    Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

    Originally posted by wwharton
    The entire defense is geared to stopping Kobe.
    That's not the case at all. There have been plenty of possessions where Tony Allen locked up Kobe one-on-one, forced him into a bad shot or played such good D that Kobe couldn't even get a shot off. Ray Allen has had a few of those as well.
    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

    Comment

    • wwharton
      *ll St*r
      • Aug 2002
      • 26949

      #62
      Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

      Originally posted by bamalam
      disagree.

      they pretty much been playing kobe straight up until he gets to the paint. gasol been most important for lakers in the series and he is most difficult to stop for celts 1 on 1

      too many wild shots for kobe. he does hit some extremely difficult shots, but he takes bad shots a lot, like he wants degree of difficulty points

      percentage wise, id take my chances with kobe perimeter shot vs gasol taking it against the celts bigs

      ill give up a few kobe points if i can stop gasol down low.(and all the others)

      usually do better against lakers when kobe trying to do it all himself
      Originally posted by ehh
      That's not the case at all. There have been plenty of possessions where Tony Allen locked up Kobe one-on-one, forced him into a bad shot or played such good D that Kobe couldn't even get a shot off. Ray Allen has had a few of those as well.
      Tony and Ray are forcing Kobe to stay in front of them. They basically want him to take jump shots... if he gets anywhere near the paint, the entire team will be sprinting to trap (or foul). Trust, whenever Kobe has the ball, everybody's ready to help. Gasol, on the other hand is catching the ball in decent position and they aren't even thinking about doubling him. Even still, he seems to be waiting for it to come before doing anything with the ball. It's pretty clear that Doc is ok with Gasol going one on one rather than dealing with the shifts that would happen from doubling him that may allow Kobe to get momentum.

      Comment

      • ehh
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2003
        • 28962

        #63
        Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

        Originally posted by wwharton
        Tony and Ray are forcing Kobe to stay in front of them. They basically want him to take jump shots... if he gets anywhere near the paint, the entire team will be sprinting to trap (or foul).
        Mmmm, yes, that's called a defensive rotation. It happens (or should) when any player beats his man off the dribble.
        "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

        "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

        Comment

        • st0rmb11
          All Star
          • Nov 2008
          • 5167

          #64
          Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

          Well I'd say that as long as they hold him to just at 40% from the field, there's nothing wrong with making him take all jumpers.

          and when he does penetrate, and see help, he needs to stop doing something that I have said he needs to stop doing for the last 3 or 4 years now.

          he has (to me) the WORST tendency, to leave his feet to pass. He loves to elevate and try to throw a pass in mid-air, and it leads to a lot of turnovers. him shooting 40% hasn't hurt them TOO much yet, but his 18 assists to 17 turnovers ratio isn't what you want out of your best player.

          Cincinnati Reds

          UNC Tarheels

          Twitter: @st0rmb11

          PS4

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #65
            Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

            Originally posted by ehh
            Mmmm, yes, that's called a defensive rotation. It happens (or should) when any player beats his man off the dribble.
            There is a difference, trust me. It's not as noticeable when the main defender is doing a good job of keeping Kobe in front of them, but there's no question the entire defense is more focused on Kobe than Gasol. The scheme is set up to make sure the rotations happen as little as possible. If they were worried about Gasol he'd be double teamed a lot more.

            Comment

            • wwharton
              *ll St*r
              • Aug 2002
              • 26949

              #66
              Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

              Originally posted by st0rmb11
              Well I'd say that as long as they hold him to just at 40% from the field, there's nothing wrong with making him take all jumpers.

              and when he does penetrate, and see help, he needs to stop doing something that I have said he needs to stop doing for the last 3 or 4 years now.

              he has (to me) the WORST tendency, to leave his feet to pass. He loves to elevate and try to throw a pass in mid-air, and it leads to a lot of turnovers. him shooting 40% hasn't hurt them TOO much yet, but his 18 assists to 17 turnovers ratio isn't what you want out of your best player.
              Of course, it's the best strategy against him and is working. When Rondo has been on him they've doubled more which has made it easier for Gasol and Bynum to score (which is why Kobe's 1-6 with Rondo on him... he just passes out of the situation more bc it makes sense). He does leave his feet to pass too much.

              Comment

              • st0rmb11
                All Star
                • Nov 2008
                • 5167

                #67
                Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                Originally posted by wwharton
                Of course, it's the best strategy against him and is working. When Rondo has been on him they've doubled more which has made it easier for Gasol and Bynum to score (which is why Kobe's 1-6 with Rondo on him... he just passes out of the situation more bc it makes sense). He does leave his feet to pass too much.
                That's the key to the whole series. Bynum plays productive minutes, Lakers win.

                Cincinnati Reds

                UNC Tarheels

                Twitter: @st0rmb11

                PS4

                Comment

                • ehh
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 28962

                  #68
                  Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                  Originally posted by wwharton
                  There is a difference, trust me. It's not as noticeable when the main defender is doing a good job of keeping Kobe in front of them, but there's no question the entire defense is more focused on Kobe than Gasol. The scheme is set up to make sure the rotations happen as little as possible. If they were worried about Gasol he'd be double teamed a lot more.
                  Well of course, Kobe is still LA's best offensive weapon. The defense is always going to focus on stopping the opposition's best player first and foremost. But I still don't agree with the notion that Boston's entire D is focused on stopping Kobe.
                  "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                  "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                  Comment

                  • wwharton
                    *ll St*r
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26949

                    #69
                    Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                    Originally posted by ehh
                    Well of course, Kobe is still LA's best offensive weapon. The defense is always going to focus on stopping the opposition's best player first and foremost. But I still don't agree with the notion that Boston's entire D is focused on stopping Kobe.
                    The entire D isn't "guarding" Kobe. The statement "the defense is always going to focus on stopping the opposition's best player" is the exact same thing as "the Celtics D is focused on stopping Kobe". Maybe you're misreading the word focus but you used it yourself in that sentence.

                    Thing is, this whole train of thought started with the notion that Gasol is the best player on the Lakers right now... basically by looking at stats, I'd assume. My point was Kobe is still the best player on LA and Gasol's numbers are better bc A)they're focused on stopping the best player... Kobe, and B)Gasol's an all star so he better take advantage of the opportunity.

                    Comment

                    • ehh
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 28962

                      #70
                      Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                      Ah, gotcha. I guess we were on two different wavelengths. I didn't know you were talking about Gasol vs Kobe.
                      "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                      "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                      Comment

                      • wwharton
                        *ll St*r
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 26949

                        #71
                        Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                        ehh, these are the posts my first response were directed at (I should've quoted one or more... my bad)

                        Originally posted by bamalam
                        kobe definately number 2 man on those shaq lakers teams.

                        i give him last yr and this yr as the man, but gasol sneakin up on him as the man on the lakers. he is arguably their most important/best player vs celtics imo. they should run every play thru gasol due to his huge advantage over celtics bigs + his passing ability, until they stop him.

                        as far as mj comparisons,

                        mentally and killer instinct, no comparison.

                        in a 7 game series, with prime mj your number 1 man(6-0 in finals) vs prime kobe as your number one,(1-1 finals) who would you bet real money on to win the series? he looked bad in 8 as a number 1. looks above avg with some wild shots this year

                        elite time left a mere 2 years, hopefully he retires while hes still got skills.
                        Response to bolded. They still should be able to run the offense through Gasol but we've now seen how "effective" that is without Bynum in to give him a favorable match up. Even when Gasol is going off, it's bc the Celts aren't going to double him and dare him to go off.

                        another...

                        Originally posted by st0rmb11
                        you say that, but to me, it's looking like if the Lakers win this title, Gasol is the MVP right now. Kobe has been virtually non-existent so far (with the exception of last night..and even then, he shot poorly)

                        He's 38 for 93 from the field right now with 17 turnovers and 18 assists in 4 games. The games they've won, Gasol has been the best player for them.
                        and another...

                        Originally posted by Brankles
                        Shh... don't say that too loudly... you might make some people here mad

                        P.S. I agree with you

                        Comment

                        • st0rmb11
                          All Star
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 5167

                          #72
                          Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                          I never said that Gasol has surpassed Kobe as the best player. I simply said that (in the games they've won), Gasol has been the reason. Kobe just hasn't won a game for LA. Kobe is still the best player on the team (and in the league). But, as far as an MVP goes in the series (if they come back and win), Gasol is the most important player.

                          Cincinnati Reds

                          UNC Tarheels

                          Twitter: @st0rmb11

                          PS4

                          Comment

                          • wwharton
                            *ll St*r
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 26949

                            #73
                            Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                            Originally posted by st0rmb11
                            I never said that Gasol has surpassed Kobe as the best player. I simply said that (in the games they've won), Gasol has been the reason. Kobe just hasn't won a game for LA. Kobe is still the best player on the team (and in the league). But, as far as an MVP goes in the series (if they come back and win), Gasol is the most important player.
                            I compare that to the thought that Vince Young was the MVP of the Titans last year.

                            Comment

                            • Kashanova
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 12695

                              #74
                              Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                              to me kobe is just a volume scorer so as long as he's getting shots he'll stay in the league

                              Comment

                              • The15thunter
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 1639

                                #75
                                Re: How many years does Kobe have left...

                                Originally posted by Kashanova
                                to me kobe is just a volume scorer so as long as he's getting shots he'll stay in the league
                                lol, gotta love how consistent you are.
                                xbox gt - bmorerep87

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