Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

[The15thunter]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Dig 5 post in this entire forum where someone mention rondo as THE best PG in the league...

KG is overrated as a defender...Blks doesnt make you a great defender just like steals doesnt make you a great defender...Perkins and rondo are the best defensive players on the celtics..

he didn't say they weren't, he said the addition of kevin garnett, a first ballot hall of famer known for his defense, was a major contributing factor in the celtics' recent defensive mastery.

[Brankles]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

D starts with the PG and the C as the anchor...

Rondo was also on the bench before those guys...Telfair was the starter...What D is he leading???

Boston is just a good defensive team all-around. They have great rotation, size and shot blocking. Most teams don't build a defense around a PG, they build it around a guy who can disrupt the offense the most, which in this case is a KG or a Perkins. It takes a whole team mentality, which is what came in with KG. Rondo deserves some credit for being good at defense, but to say he's responsible for the change of mentality for the team is overboard.

[wwharton]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Dig 5 post in this entire forum where someone mention rondo as THE best PG in the league...

KG is overrated as a defender...Blks doesnt make you a great defender just like steals doesnt make you a great defender...Perkins and rondo are the best defensive players on the celtics..

The thought that he's the best player on his team right now would be overrating him, and therefore any post that goes beyond that is also overrating him... there are A LOT more than 5.

Trust me, I know a little bit about what it takes to be a great defender, and find it funny that Rondo is considered great from you in the same breath as saying steals don't make you a great defender. Rondo is a great hustle player... he's a decent defender who needs to take less gambles.

As for KG, the idea that the Rondo made the Celtics a great defensive team is laughable when KG won Defensive Player of the Year his first year in Boston. He's also been selected to the All Defensive Team 10 times which is why everyone knew that the addition of KG would make them a great defensive team. Of course, he's not the same player he was then but he's still KG and still the pulse of that team's defense.

[jeebs9]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

That's what bugs me about your posts (in regard to our back and forth here). The statement you just made is EXACTLY what I and pretty much everyone you've been debating with thinks. But if we reply with exactly what you said to someone who says he's the best PG in the league or something else that would be considered "overrating" him, you are defending the other person and arguing with us. Re-read the posts. No one is denying his hustle, defense, anything. He's still not as good as some around here are trying to make him out to be.

Perfect example is the post about how Rondo turned them into a defensive team. When you start talking about Rondo as if adding a future HOFer known for his great defense was not a factor in the change, then you are most definitely overrating him.

Maybe you're taking some replies too personally. Based on your opinion, it seems like all that you're arguing against aren't directed at you at all.

Wow....wow.....I never said anything about Rondo making them a defensive team. I never agreed with that post either. I'm not fighting you. Rondo not maybe be the best PG in the league.

Problem here is that we not putting offense and defense on the same level. Its like we're saying. Because Rondo doesn't have protype point skills he not as good as the other guys. Thats the problem I'm having here.

[The15thunter]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Wow....wow.....I never said anything about Rondo making them a defensive team. I never agreed with that post either. I'm not fighting you. Rondo not maybe be the best PG in the league.

Problem here is that we not putting offense and defense on the same level. Its like we're saying. Because Rondo doesn't have protype point skills he not as good as the other guys. Thats the problem I'm having here.

i'll speak for myself and say that he isn't as good as the other guys, but not because i don't rank his defense properly. i think his defense is good, probably better than the other 3 guys i consider elite, if not tied with paul for top billing.

however, the fact that he is visibly and notably extremely poor at one of the most fundamental skills of basketball, let alone a requirement for his position...i just can't let him off the hook.

you can't be as good as people who do all the things the position requires if you can't do the same.

[Jukeman]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

he didn't say they weren't, he said the addition of kevin garnett, a first ballot hall of famer known for his defense, was a major contributing factor in the celtics' recent defensive mastery.

Just like Rondo is..

[Jukeman]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

The thought that he's the best player on his team right now would be overrating him, and therefore any post that goes beyond that is also overrating him... there are A LOT more than 5.

Trust me, I know a little bit about what it takes to be a great defender, and find it funny that Rondo is considered great from you in the same breath as saying steals don't make you a great defender. Rondo is a great hustle player... he's a decent defender who needs to take less gambles.

As for KG, the idea that the Rondo made the Celtics a great defensive team is laughable when KG won Defensive Player of the Year his first year in Boston. He's also been selected to the All Defensive Team 10 times which is why everyone knew that the addition of KG would make them a great defensive team. Of course, he's not the same player he was then but he's still KG and still the pulse of that team's defense.

Dude dont back track..

Also most of the year he was the best player on the Celtics...

I also never used the word great...Got to love OS, people here use terms to justify their agruements...A great defender would be Pippen or Payton..HOFers...

[The15thunter]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Just like Rondo is..

so you're telling me that after one season in the nba, with 25 games started, people weren't heralding the incoming garnett for his defensive prowess and how it would bring the team a newfound energy and desire? they were thinking about rondo?

really? really?

[Jukeman]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

so you're telling me that after one season in the nba, with 25 games started, people weren't heralding the incoming garnett for his defensive prowess and how it would bring the team a newfound energy and desire? they were thinking about rondo?

really? really?

HuH??? what does that have to do what actually happened on the court???

You are making KG out to be some great defender when yet the wolves never was a great defensive team..

Am Im saying its all Rondo??? No, but its starts with the guy...

Here's an FYI since OS posters rely on stats..

2006-2007
Rondo- 6.4ppg 3.8asp 3.7rpg 1.6 spg 23.5mpg 25 starts

Per 36 mins
Rondo- 9.9ppg 5.8apg 5.7rpg 2.5spg

2009-20010
Rondo- 13.7ppg 9.8apg 4.4rpg 2.3spg

Kind of defeats the "He has the big 3" statement...

[jeebs9]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

i'll speak for myself and say that he isn't as good as the other guys, but not because i don't rank his defense properly. i think his defense is good, probably better than the other 3 guys i consider elite, if not tied with paul for top billing.

however, the fact that he is visibly and notably extremely poor at one of the most fundamental skills of basketball, let alone a requirement for his position...i just can't let him off the hook.

you can't be as good as people who do all the things the position requires if you can't do the same.

This is almost like Dwight Howard vs Yao Ming. Dwight not that good of a freethrow shooter, offensive game could use some work. But on the defensive end he is a monster. Yao on the other hand pretty good shooter at the line, very soild offensive game... But just not the presense Dwight is on the defensive end. Does the center postion require that you be a good free throw shooter? Not really...But if you can its a plus. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

[The15thunter]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

This is almost like Dwight Howard vs Yao Ming. Dwight not that good of a freethrow shooter, offensive game could use some work. But on the defensive end he is a monster. Yao on the other hand pretty good shooter at the line, very soild offensive game... But just not the presense Dwight is on the defensive end. Does the center postion require that you be a good free throw shooter? Not really...But if you can its a plus. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

i defiitely understand what you're saying.

the thing is, dwight has everything you want in a center, except post moves (glaring hole).

yao has everything you want in a center, except durability and intimidation.

however, dwight is worlds above yao in rebounding and in defense, and gives you 80%-100% of yao's offense without having many of yao's skills. he also terrifies you in the paint and is more durable. that's why you take dwight howard if given the choice between him and yao. you can teach post moves, you can't teach "the mere presence of this young man near the rim will prohibit me from taking an intelligent shot".

but, to make the comparison to rondo and the other elites, he's not worlds above them in any category (well, he's got nash beat in defense, but still). meanwhile, they all can give you 80 - 100% of what he does, while also shooting well.

[Jukeman]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

i defiitely understand what you're saying.

the thing is, dwight has everything you want in a center, except post moves (glaring hole).

yao has everything you want in a center, except durability and intimidation.

however, dwight is worlds above yao in rebounding and in defense, and gives you 80%-100% of yao's offense without having many of yao's skills. he also terrifies you in the paint and is more durable. that's why you take dwight howard if given the choice between him and yao. you can teach post moves, you can't teach "the mere presence of this young man near the rim will prohibit me from taking an intelligent shot".

but, to make the comparison to rondo and the other elites, he's not worlds above them in any category (well, he's got nash beat in defense, but still). meanwhile, they all can give you 80 - 100% of what he does, while also shooting well.

Rondo doesnt have everything you want in a PG besides a Jumper(underrated) and Ft's???

Besides Paul, who isnt he "worlds better than" on the defensive side???

Only Nash???

[jeebs9]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I'm out here guys. This is another one of those "To each his own" Topics.

The topic should really be if you were starting a team....Would you pick Rondo as your Point Guard?....lol

[wwharton]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Wow....wow.....I never said anything about Rondo making them a defensive team. I never agreed with that post either. I'm not fighting you. Rondo not maybe be the best PG in the league.

Problem here is that we not putting offense and defense on the same level. Its like we're saying. Because Rondo doesn't have protype point skills he not as good as the other guys. Thats the problem I'm having here.

Man I'm going to have to just stop trying soon, lol. Let me try again...

OTHERS are saying things like Rondo has made them a defensive team. Hell, just read every single post Jukeman makes in his thread. It's more than just him but there you go. My point to you is that I agree with your assessment of Rondo (perfect fit for the Celtics and very good player) and most others do as well. OTHERS are overrating them and we are replying to them. For some reason, you look at our replies and determine that we're throwing Rondo under the bus and calling him horrible. That couldn't be further from the truth.

And trust me, the core of my basketball knowledge starts with defense. I would never undervalue a player defensively. Honestly, I think Rondo's value comes more in his heart, decision making and hustle than his defense (the media likes to group those things together). He's a good defender, not a "shut down" defender. What's important is he's a GREAT PG on both ends of the court for the Celtics as they are currently built. Nobody is denying that.

Dude dont back track..

Also most of the year he was the best player on the Celtics...

I also never used the word great...Got to love OS, people here use terms to justify their agruements...A great defender would be Pippen or Payton..HOFers...

Where exactly am I back tracking? Seriously lost me with that one.

No, most of the year he has not been the best player on the Celtics. That's just like saying Gasol has been the best player on the Lakers this post season. If you believe that then you're not really understanding what's going on out there.

And that last part is hilarious. So you didn't say "great" defender but you said he and Perkins were the "best" defenders on the Celtics. You also said the Celtics D is basically built around the guy. I guess the Celtics are a great defensive team, but the "best" defenders on that team aren't considered great. Sorry for making that incredible leap in understanding your logic.

Yeah, definitely gotta love OS.

Just read your post again and you literally said nothing in response to mine, lol. Gotta love OS.

[The15thunter]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Rondo doesnt have everything you want in a PG besides a Jumper(underrated) and Ft's???

Besides Paul, who isnt he "worlds better than" on the defensive side???

Only Nash???

no, i said of the four, i only put paul up there with him, and i made it clear he's far better than nash defensively.

rondo has everything you want in a point guard, except you wouldn't want him to shoot anything outside of the paint, would want him to gamble less on defense and you'd want him to be a little more careful with the rock.

basically, you want him to be chris paul.