Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

[SaltyBlackWorm]

Since the thread of greatest players has MJ as # 1 in everybody's list, who do you guys think was the greatest person before MJ?Top 5 of course, Top 10 too if you want. i cant make up my mind right now, but mine looks like 1. Bill Russell 2. Kareem 3. Wilt Chamberlain 4. Jerry West 5. Magic Johnson

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Well, obviously, its everyone's same list----just without Jordan or anyone else since.

[SaltyBlackWorm]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Well, obviously, its everyone's same list----just without Jordan or anyone else since.

true, how about we just see people's opinion on their top 10, without Jordan.

[st0rmb11]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Oscar Robertson was the greatest prior to the Jordan era. (in my opinion)

[Robens]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Bill Russel

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Bill Russel

How many seasons of Bill Russell's career have you watched, and where did you get them?

I also pose that question to anyone on here who posts players who played before 1975.

[TMagic]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

How many seasons of Bill Russell's career have you watched, and where did you get them?

I also pose that question to anyone on here who posts players who played before 1975.

I feel you on that one Born.

This is the biggest reason why I don't really care to get into any of these types of discussions. I just can't pull myself into debating having not seen so many older players actually play. Not just highlights either. Actually full games. The good and the bad.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

I'm not going to count Larry or Magic since they were in that same era for the most part

In no specific order except Kareem at 1

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor/Jerry West/Rick Barry (tie)

Its criminal how underrated Rick Barry is now, he was every single bit as good as Larry Bird.

[st0rmb11]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

You don't have to have actually seen a player play throughout his career to have an opinion of him. Anyone who is a student of the game and its history can form an opinion based on old clips, what you've read, and what your elders have told you.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

You don't have to have actually seen a player play throughout his career to have an opinion of him. Anyone who is a student of the game and its history can form an opinion based on old clips, what you've read, and what your elders have told you.

That's ridiculous. What you're asking people to do is scout, and no scout works without watching film. You don't know how fast, how crafty, how smart or how clutch someone is unless you see them, and just as importantly, unless you see the defense they are playing against.

If you haven't seen them play, you're not talking sports, you're playing Pokemon. That's silly. Especially when you're talking about comparing one to the other. You have no idea why or if you should choose Jerry West over Rick Barry in a pickup game. Might as well just gather their trading cards, add up the numbers and play NBA UNO.

There is absolutely no substitute for watching players play the game, and clips don't count. Any kid can cut together a YouTube video to make J.R. Smith look like the goat, and 1 game or even 1 playoff series doesn't give you an accurate, relative depiction of what kinds of spaces defenses left for players to work within.

[st0rmb11]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

That's ridiculous. What you're asking people to do is scout, and no scout works without watching film. You don't know how fast, how crafty, how smart or how clutch someone is unless you see them, and just as importantly, unless you see the defense they are playing against.

If you haven't seen them play, you're not talking sports, you're playing Pokemon. That's silly. Especially when you're talking about comparing one to the other. You have no idea why or if you should choose Jerry West over Rick Barry in a pickup game. Might as well just gather their trading cards, add up the numbers and play NBA UNO.

There is absolutely no substitute for watching players play the game, and clips don't count. Any kid can cut together a YouTube video to make J.R. Smith look like the goat, and 1 game or even 1 playoff series doesn't give you an accurate, relative depiction of what kinds of spaces defenses left for players to work within.

So my dad having seen Russell, Chamberlain, Cunningham (in person), Robertson (in person), Petit, West, Baylor, Cousy, Frazier, Unseld, Jabbar, Elvin Hayes, etc. doesn't give me any way of knowing about players?

I've had in depth conversations with my dad for years now about every possible player that played before I was born, and have solid opinions about each one and what they could do. Yes, basing your opinion on the backs of trading cards is absurd because numbers don't even being to tell the story. But, reading books written by people that have seen the greats play (or even played with or against them) or watching countless hours of movies and interviews about players, or having in depth conversations with people that did watch the legends play regularly is a legitimate way to form an opinion about a player. As I said, a true STUDENT of the game's history can logically form an opinion about George Mikan, even if he never even saw the man play.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Short answer: No.

If your Dad saw them play, then great. He can post his answer in this thread and have it be legitimate. Otherwise, I don't see why anecdotal information would be acceptable as "observation." You are not observing the player. You're observing the opinion of people who observed the player. Even a simple person can see the difference, and it shouldn't be a part of any real discussion.

If you haven't seen them, you are speaking from a place of ignorance. Literally. What's worse is to compare them to people you may have seen play, like Kareem if you fall into that age bracket. Or Dr. J.

Rick Barry might have a case for being better than Dr. J. He might not. I've seen Dr.J play(though I was very young). I have not seen Rick Barry play. Wouldn't it be silly of me to believe Rick Barry was better just because someone who saw him said so? What if someone else who saw them both play disagrees?

I would all but guarantee that any reasonable person would change their opinion of these players if they saw ONE full season+playoffs of them playing, compared to not having seen them play. What their daddy tells them notwithstanding.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

That blows my mind. I honestly find that to be amazing. The fact that you could feel that way in the internet age when theres never been more statistics, information, and video available about older players is amazing.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

That blows my mind. I honestly find that to be amazing. The fact that you could feel that way in the internet age when theres never been more statistics, information, and video available about older players is amazing.

Maybe that's the problem. The internet age thinks wikipedia and Youtube makes them experts on everything. Call me old school, but if you haven't watched them play, you don't really know what you're talking about. Glorified Educated Guessing.

[st0rmb11]

Re: Greatest Player BEFORE MJ Era

Maybe that's the problem. The internet age thinks wikipedia and Youtube makes them experts on everything. Call me old school, but if you haven't watched them play, you don't really know what you're talking about. Glorified Educated Guessing.

So having various people's opinions about a player can't help you form an opinion of that player? If you talk at length to 10 people who watched Wilt Chamberlain play, and 6 say he was the greatest player they ever saw, and the other 4 say he wasn't, and each gives you reasons to support that, you can't then justify having your own opinion about how good he was?

and say a 10 year old kid today wants to find out if Michael Jordan really was as good as his "legend" would imply. That kid could go on YouTube and watch HUNDREDS of FULL GAMES that Michael Jordan played in (and see every little thing Jordan did to make him dominant in all aspects of the game), and thus compare what he is seeing to what he has seen from Kobe in his lifetime. You say that he can't justify saying that Michael Jordan is better than Kobe Bryant?