Dan Gilbert.

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  • 23
    yellow
    • Sep 2002
    • 66469

    #166
    Re: Dan Gilbert.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... lbj-100709

    I'm beginning to wonder if Dan Gilbert's real name is Benjamin Button. You know, the character from the hit movie, "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button," who looks old when he's young and young when he's old.

    How else to explain a 48-year-old man -- an intelligent, accomplished, incredibly wealthy 48-year-old man -- sounding off like an acne-riddled 13-year-old who'd just been jilted by his first love?
    LeBron James has been roundly criticized for the stunning way he handled his departure from the Cleveland Cavaliers on Thursday, and rightly so. James should have informed the team of his decision to leave in person and as soon as he could, thus giving it the chance to formulate a practical Plan B rather than having to react to such devastating news on the fly.

    He dumped them -- and northeast Ohio -- on national TV, making the ending unnecessarily dramatic and harsh.

    But James is 25 years old. And though in some ways he's unusually mature for his age, he's still 25 years old. No excuses, but at that age, we can all be self-absorbed and unaware of -- if not flat-out defiant of -- proper protocol.

    But Gilbert's nearly twice James' age. And when you're two winters away from 50, you should know better than to act off pure emotion. If you want to react spontaneously in your living room, ranting and raving like a heartbroken teenager, immaturely pointing out flaws in the one you'd gladly spend the rest of your life with, issuing ridiculous threats that are about as likely as purple rain, and -- get this -- casting spells (apparently, like many teens, Gilbert's a Harry Potter fan), go right ahead.

    But to do that publicly? Uhh, two words:

    Grow up.

    But the childishness didn't stop there. On Friday, Gilbert, the owner of Fathead, dropped the price of James fatheads from $99.99 to $17.41. Benedict Arnold was born in 1741.

    With the way this is going, I'm expecting Gilbert to tape "Kick Me" signs to the seats on the visitors bench when Miami visits The Q next season. That'll be a good one!

    Let's be honest: Gilbert, and most every other owner or league executive, makes a habit of being just as cold-blooded and callous as James was in making his decision. They do it with NBA players all the time, telling them to their faces they have no intention of trading them and then picking up their cell phone and offering them to a competitor as soon as the player leaves the room.

    Heck, the Cavs are doing that at this very moment. Everyone on that roster not named LeBron has been available in a trade since that May semifinals series loss to Boston. Think Gilbert's told them that?

    What Gilbert did was especially reckless and immature when you consider how volatile the situation in Cleveland was Thursday night. With fans burning James jerseys and throwing things at murals and paintings of James, he thought it best to exacerbate their anger rather than to call for calm.

    So now, I'm told, James' close friends -- and perhaps even the player himself -- have been threatened with violence, told that their homes in Cleveland and Akron may be burned down. They've got friends and relatives living in the area, and Gilbert thought it right to stir up the fury of the masses even more?

    In his incendiary e-mail, Gilbert wrote that James' decision to leave Cleveland was "the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn."

    Yet in his letter, he seemed to threaten to expose potentially embarrassing information about James, writing that he plans to communicate "events of the recent past" to the public over "the next several days and weeks." Is that how Gilbert wants children to act when they don't get their way?

    Gilbert's diatribes -- he further attacked James' character in a subsequent interview with The Associated Press -- were hypocritical in so many ways.

    He called James a quitter, saying he quit in five playoff games over the past two years, yet he was willing to pay him $125 million to stay on his team. He called James a "self-declared King," yet failed to mention that it was he himself who promoted the "King James" brand throughout his arena. He said James has "gotten a free pass" and that "people have covered up for him for way too long," yet it was Gilbert who overruled the objections of former GM Danny Ferry and gave James and his friends carte blanche throughout the organization. If James was enabled, Gilbert was the enabler.

    Then Gilbert said James' actions Thursday night revealed "who he really is." Well, perhaps James is saying the same thing about Gilbert. Perhaps he's known all along that Gilbert didn't respect him; that Gilbert thought he was a "coward;" that Gilbert thought his "King," "Chosen One" and "Witness" nicknames were a joke; that he'd mock and trash them, and him, as soon as James was no longer making him money.

    Maybe that's why James didn't return Gilbert's phone calls and e-mails over the past two months -- because he knew the owner looked at him as a moneymaker and nothing more. Maybe James no longer wanted to play for someone like that: someone who, in the heat of the moment, refuses to act his age.

    Comment

    • SoxFan01605
      All Star
      • Jan 2008
      • 7982

      #167
      Re: Dan Gilbert.

      Originally posted by 23
      *snip*
      Excellent points.

      This has been my only point from the beginning. Lebron was immature, but much of the reaction has been as bad, if not worse (if the hypocrisy of some objectors like Gilbert isn't ignored, at least).

      The whole thing has been like watching a school yard argument (even with an occasional "yo mama" joke tossed in, it seems...lol). Crazy.

      I'm just ready for the season to start, so the argument will be more about basketball. The Heat still have to prove themselves on the court just like everyone else. Should be fun to watch.

      Comment

      • Illustrator76
        Sorry, I Got Nothing...
        • Jan 2003
        • 2216

        #168
        Re: Dan Gilbert.

        I don't see how anyone can look at this situation and not say that BOTH LeBron and Dan Gilbert are wrong. Dan Gilbert should have stopped at/probably never have made his statements about LeBron after he decided to go to Miami, and this whole Fathead deal and all of this other mess is ridiculous. No matter what he says, Gilbert is making a not-very-appealing organization look even less so with the things that he is doing now. If nobody wanted to come to Cleveland before, what makes Gilbert think this will make things any better?

        On the other hand, people can say what they want to, but LeBron is a scumbag and is wasting his talent. If it is true that LeBron nixed a trade for Amar'e Stoudemire and (other various things) possibly because he wanted out of Cleveland, then that is dirty, period. LeBron has the right to go wherever he wants to (even though this was a terrible decision, IMHO), but to sabotage an organization so that you can have an excuse to leave and, refuse to call/text back your current/former owner for months at a time is scumbaggy....period. LeBron has more raw talent than anyone who has ever come in to the NBA, if you have that kind of talent then you HAVE to be the man....period, you can't go to a team with two other All-Stars and be a second fiddle (which LeBron is now). LeBron just wasted his talent for the next 5-6 years, and ruined his legacy in the process....period.

        I'm also getting tired of the whole "it's just business" and "that's why you don't trust players" junk. Professional sports is a lot about TRUST! You give a player a huge deal once he has proven himself and you TRUST that the player will stay hungry, want to win and play up to that deal. So if trust means nothing in pro sports, then it is perfectly fine for any player to sign a huge deal and then mail it in for the life of the deal (not saying LeBron did this, just making a point) and then say "Well you shouldn't have trusted me enough to give me a huge deal, lolzerz". That makes no sense. Dan Gilbert did certain things and got LeBron's input on deals trusting that LeBron was doing what was best for the team to win, not what was best for LeBron to possibly screw the organization so that he could have an excuse to leave.

        Again, I disagree with Dan Gilbert making the statements he did about LeBron, he should have kept his mouth shut and done things the classy way; now he is simply making himself look like a bumbling idiot (although I am glad that he didn't pursue a pointless tampering case against LeBron). I do want to counter the notion that Gilbert is a hypocrite because he said all of those things about LeBron, yet was still going to sign him. What would you have done? Maybe he did think those things about LeBron, maybe he didn't, but when you have a player with the talent of LeBron (and someone who means so much to your city), you have no choice but to try and sign the guy. Maybe Gilbert was hoping a new coach could help LeBron mature and form him in to a player with the mindset of a Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc...

        If Dan Gilbert would have said "No, we aren't going to sign LeBron James, because of X, Y, and Z" he would have been hated just as much as LeBron is now, or even worse. People would have been saying "I don't care how he acts, you give a player like LeBron James everything he wants and then thank him for not slapping you for it". I really would like to know what other choice Dan Gilbert had whether he really felt all of those things he said about LeBron were true or not.

        As I said earlier, both parties are wrong, LeBron is a narcissist coward who quit during the playoffs this year (I even said that way before Gilbert even brought it up), is wasting his talent being in Dwayne Wade's shadow, and who seemingly screwed an organization that bent over backwards to make him happy in every way. On the other hand, Dan Gilbert needs to man up, pick himself up and move on, it's over. LeBron is gone and he ain't coming back. What Gilbert needs to do is reflect on what went wrong and figure out how to prevent it in the future instead of finding ways to attack someone who isn't even giving him a second thought. Dan Gilbert should take this experience and learn from it instead of lowering himself to Mark Cuban-like levels.

        This whole situation is scummy, sad, pathetic and just plain wrong all the way around.
        Last edited by Illustrator76; 07-12-2010, 04:06 PM.

        Comment

        • wwharton
          *ll St*r
          • Aug 2002
          • 26949

          #169
          Re: Dan Gilbert.

          I haven't heard the rumors about LBJ nixing a trade for Amare in an attempt to be sure he gets out of Cleveland easier, and wouldn't believe it if I did. James clearly quit in some of those games but I don't think it had anything to do with making sure the team didn't win so he had an excuse to get out of town. I just think he's immature... he's shown it many times and I think that was just another case of it. There's no way he didn't want to win the ring though... absolutely no way.

          There's no guarantee Amare would've been the answer anyway. Again, Jamison has been a 20/10 guy for years and has done it on multiple teams. We have no idea what Amare looks like away from Nash, and definitely don't know what he would've looked like in that horrible offense the Cavs ran. Both Antwan and Amare play horrible D. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

          Comment

          • Illustrator76
            Sorry, I Got Nothing...
            • Jan 2003
            • 2216

            #170
            Re: Dan Gilbert.

            Originally posted by wwharton
            I haven't heard the rumors about LBJ nixing a trade for Amare in an attempt to be sure he gets out of Cleveland easier, and wouldn't believe it if I did. James clearly quit in some of those games but I don't think it had anything to do with making sure the team didn't win so he had an excuse to get out of town. I just think he's immature... he's shown it many times and I think that was just another case of it. There's no way he didn't want to win the ring though... absolutely no way.

            There's no guarantee Amare would've been the answer anyway. Again, Jamison has been a 20/10 guy for years and has done it on multiple teams. We have no idea what Amare looks like away from Nash, and definitely don't know what he would've looked like in that horrible offense the Cavs ran. Both Antwan and Amare play horrible D. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
            I didn't mean to say that it was concrete that LeBron nixed the Amar'e deal because of that reason, but there have been rumblings and besides, why would LeBron nix a deal of J.J. Hickson and Big Z (with Big Z being released and re-signing with the Cavs 30 days after) for Amar'e if he wants to win NOW? Hickson has great potential, but Amar'e is a proven 20 point 8-9 rebounder now, and he could have helped the Cavs much more than Hickson and Big Z could now (although I do agree with you about Amar'e's poor defense). I don't know, to me quitting shows a lot about your desire to win and want to get better. LeBron joining the super powers in Miami may show that he wants to win, but it also shows that when the going gets tough, LeBron takes the easy way out. Mike, Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc... would have never done something like that.......ever.
            Last edited by Illustrator76; 07-12-2010, 04:03 PM.

            Comment

            • pietasterp
              All Star
              • Feb 2004
              • 6244

              #171
              Re: Dan Gilbert.

              They say you're supposed to sleep on it before firing off a heat-of-the-moment email...and this is why.

              Having said that, it's a refreshing bit of honesty in an otherwise sterile, predictable, and overly-PR-micromanaged sports (and cultural) environment. I suspect that most Cavs fans felt exactly the same way, they just don't have the megaphone Gilbert does. Your owner should be your team's #1 fan; I think Gilbert just did what the #1 fan of a franchise would do under those circumstances.

              LBJ is to blame for this whole situation; no way people react like they did (Gilbert included) without his self-created media-circus. It was the single most destructive thing I've ever seen anyone do to the illusion (carefully manicured and manipulated through the years) that athletes actually give a flying f* about anything but getting paid and partying. If they can also win, fine, but that's a distant 3rd to the primary objectives.

              LBJ and ESPN have, in my opinion, irrevocably diminished themselves to National Enquirer status.

              Comment

              • wwharton
                *ll St*r
                • Aug 2002
                • 26949

                #172
                Re: Dan Gilbert.

                Originally posted by Illustrator76
                I didn't mean to say that it was concrete that LeBron nixed the Amar'e deal because of that reason, but there have been rumblings and besides, why would LeBron nix a deal of J.J. Hickson and Big Z (with Big Z being released and re-signing with the Cavs 30 days after) for Amar'e if he wants to win NOW? Hickson has great potential, but Amar'e is a proven 20 point 8-9 rebounder now, and he could have helped the Cavs much more than Hickson and Big Z could now (although I do agree with you about Amar'e's poor defense). I don't know, to me quitting shows a lot about your desire to win and want to get better. LeBron joining the super powers in Miami may show that he wants to win, but it also shows that when the going gets tough, LeBron takes the easy way out. Mike, Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc... would have never done something like that.......ever.
                I only commented on that section bc I agree with most of your post. I didn't mean my reply to be a rebuttal to what you wrote... just a comment on that one section.

                To answer your question, the rumors that I'd heard for a long while were that LBJ wanted Jamison LAST year and pushed hard for him this year. And btw, Jamison is also a proven 20 point 10 rebound player and has done it in multiple systems. People keep knocking him but he wasn't less than that until he reached Cleveland, and there's no guarantee Amare wouldn't have had the same fate. With Jamison's range, you could think that he'd be a better fit for LBJ too, considering there was already a low post presence but I don't want to side track too much here. Bottom line, is Amare's advantage over Jamison was mostly age. Hindsight is 20/20 and before a move was made Amare and Jamison were looked at as 1a and 1b for the best option for the team. If it's true that LBJ wanted Jamison then it's all on him anyway (though I feel a lot of this nonsense came from the Cavs giving him too much power to begin with).

                Comment

                • Illustrator76
                  Sorry, I Got Nothing...
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 2216

                  #173
                  Re: Dan Gilbert.

                  Originally posted by wwharton
                  I only commented on that section bc I agree with most of your post. I didn't mean my reply to be a rebuttal to what you wrote... just a comment on that one section.

                  To answer your question, the rumors that I'd heard for a long while were that LBJ wanted Jamison LAST year and pushed hard for him this year. And btw, Jamison is also a proven 20 point 10 rebound player and has done it in multiple systems. People keep knocking him but he wasn't less than that until he reached Cleveland, and there's no guarantee Amare wouldn't have had the same fate. With Jamison's range, you could think that he'd be a better fit for LBJ too, considering there was already a low post presence but I don't want to side track too much here. Bottom line, is Amare's advantage over Jamison was mostly age. Hindsight is 20/20 and before a move was made Amare and Jamison were looked at as 1a and 1b for the best option for the team. If it's true that LBJ wanted Jamison then it's all on him anyway (though I feel a lot of this nonsense came from the Cavs giving him too much power to begin with).
                  Oh, I agree with you on Jamison all the way. He is/was actually one of my favorite players because of his unorthodox style of play, lol. I'm not at all saying that he is less of a player than Amar'e, because you are right, they are both 20 and 8 to 9 guys and neither of them play defense very well. It'll be interesting to see how Jamison does this year with the Cavs essentially being his team, I mean, who else's team could it be now?

                  Comment

                  • wwharton
                    *ll St*r
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26949

                    #174
                    Re: Dan Gilbert.

                    Originally posted by Illustrator76
                    Oh, I agree with you on Jamison all the way. He is/was actually one of my favorite players because of his unorthodox style of play, lol. I'm not at all saying that he is less of a player than Amar'e, because you are right, they are both 20 and 8 to 9 guys and neither of them play defense very well. It'll be interesting to see how Jamison does this year with the Cavs essentially being his team, I mean, who else's team could it be now?
                    The sad thing is he'll go 20/10 by default. Guess it's not sad but the reality is his true worth to a James lead team won't ever really be seen. Last year he was handcuffed by a horrible offense, limiting his numbers... next year his stats will be inflated bc he'll be forced to carry the load. I wish him well though. I always liked his game too, and he's a good leader. Too bad that won't be enough. Then again, if the Cavs make the playoffs that'll be an accomplishment and they may be good enough to sneak in.

                    Comment

                    • DocHolliday
                      Farewell and 'ado
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 4698

                      #175
                      Re: Dan Gilbert.

                      Is I just me or does it seem like Jesse Jackson wants this countries white an black people to have beef. What an *******.
                      GT: Event Horizon 0

                      Comment

                      • 23
                        yellow
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 66469

                        #176
                        Re: Dan Gilbert.

                        you know something, lets just end the race talk altogether.

                        We all agree Jackson is an opportunist and stirs things unnecessarily, but race talk is not allowed on the boards and we dont want to turn this forum into that

                        Comment

                        • pietasterp
                          All Star
                          • Feb 2004
                          • 6244

                          #177
                          Re: Dan Gilbert.

                          Originally posted by 23
                          you know something, lets just end the race talk altogether.

                          We all agree Jackson is an opportunist and stirs things unnecessarily, but race talk is not allowed on the boards and we dont want to turn this forum into that
                          I respect what you are saying and I understand why you would like to shut that line of discussion down; on the Internet (as in real life), these discussions can go south quickly.

                          However, I hope that this is not a de facto standard for OS now; sports and race have always been intimately intertwined, and I think it's a bit of a disservice to intelligent discourse to not be able to at least acknowledge that race is a legitimate topic of discussion in sports. Racism, obviously, should never be allowed and immediately stamped out whenever present - and I think it's pretty clear when that line has been crossed. But frank discussion, as long as it is actually relevant to the topic at hand (which admittedly in this case it almost certainly is NOT, Jackson's comments aside), seems like it should be allowed, if not encouraged.

                          I know I can go find some other board if I want to have those discussions...

                          Comment

                          • Stumbleweed
                            Livin' the dream
                            • Oct 2006
                            • 6279

                            #178
                            Re: Dan Gilbert.

                            Originally posted by pietasterp
                            I respect what you are saying and I understand why you would like to shut that line of discussion down; on the Internet (as in real life), these discussions can go south quickly.

                            However, I hope that this is not a de facto standard for OS now; sports and race have always been intimately intertwined, and I think it's a bit of a disservice to intelligent discourse to not be able to at least acknowledge that race is a legitimate topic of discussion in sports. Racism, obviously, should never be allowed and immediately stamped out whenever present - and I think it's pretty clear when that line has been crossed. But frank discussion, as long as it is actually relevant to the topic at hand (which admittedly in this case it almost certainly is NOT, Jackson's comments aside), seems like it should be allowed, if not encouraged.

                            I know I can go find some other board if I want to have those discussions...
                            It's in the ToS and they've always shut down threads as soon as it starts going this direction. It annoys me as well because I don't think it will always devolve into something negative, but the rule is totally understandable, especially when that discussion is happening in an unrelated thread like this one...
                            Send your Midnight Release weirdo pics/videos to my new website: http://www.peopleofmidnightreleases.com!

                            Comment

                            • 23
                              yellow
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 66469

                              #179
                              Re: Dan Gilbert.

                              fact of the matter is this is a dan gilbert thread and not a thread about jessie jackson and racism

                              its against the TOS and thats just how it is... there are plenty of forums on the internet to discuss race and whatever else

                              fact: OS posters have failed at this subject over and again which is why its against the TOS in teh first place.

                              If it turns into a race thread its going to get locked and any poster violating the TOS will be banned

                              Comment

                              • pietasterp
                                All Star
                                • Feb 2004
                                • 6244

                                #180
                                Re: Dan Gilbert.

                                Originally posted by 23
                                fact of the matter is this is a dan gilbert thread and not a thread about jessie jackson and racism

                                its against the TOS and thats just how it is... there are plenty of forums on the internet to discuss race and whatever else

                                fact: OS posters have failed at this subject over and again which is why its against the TOS in teh first place.

                                If it turns into a race thread its going to get locked and any poster violating the TOS will be banned
                                You and Stumbleweed are right....consider my previous post more of a lament than a suggestion.

                                Comment

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