Dan Gilbert.

[Lynsanity]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

Real talk. Acting as if a city shares one hive mind is abstract stupidity. You have no idea whatsoever what Cleveland "thinks, lol. Do you think we've never been disapointed before?

LeBron mentally divorced himself from the Cavs 2 years ago, demanded that they make short-term moves, tied them up in Free agency without the courtesy of a phonecall just so he could diss his hometown in public, and even though he had a cast good enough to compete for a chip he freaking quit in the playoffs. Talk about all the lack of help you want...the one game he brought his A game the Cavs slapped the Celtics by thirty points.

Real Talk.

I have to agree with this. I believe they put good pieces around him. The problem is that there was never a great offensive scheme when he was there. There were times where it looked like Lebron was the only weapon they had, when in truth, the other guys were not being used correctly. Some of that was coaching, and some of it was Lebron. Either way, they did not get everything they could get out of the pieces they had.

[pietasterp]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

1. A Cleveland franchise that could not put winning pieces in place around Lebron.

My version of "real talk" (whatever the hell that is...it appears to be a poor euphamism for "opinion"): Cleveland didn't win because LeBron wasn't good enough to take them to the promised land. Whether that be scoring, getting his teammates involved, motivation, adjusting his own game, or whatever else is involved, it confuses me that everyone always says "Cleveland didn't win because they didn't get the right pieces around LeBron". What if Cleveland didn't win because of LeBron, not in spite of him? How come nobody will even entertain this notion?

2. A Cleveland franchise that could not get coach that would know how to design offenses with Lebron and the players they had on those rosters.

How do you know this? Because they didn't win? Everyone said the late-90's Sixers couldn't find someone to design an offense around AI because they weren't winning 'ships, then they got Larry Brown - perhaps one of the greatest basketball coaches of this (or any) generation - and they still couldn't get it done. At some point, people started to think it might be AI and not the schemes...

3. A talented young Lebron James that wants to win championships. Wether it be more because he personally wants that above all else or its the pressure from the public and media that have given the notion that championships = greatness, and nothing else matters.

I will agree with this to some extent...with the caveat that he wanted to do it on his own terms, i.e. whilst hanging out with his homies on South Beach. I'm reminded of the Doc Rivers quote, which I'll paraphrase because I'm too lazy to look it up, but he basically said he hears a lot of guys say they want to win, but what they really mean is they want to win as long as they can do it on their own terms and not change anything about their game/attitude/etc. I suspect that's what we have with LeBron.

4. Lebron decided he cant win championships in Cleveland.

Can't argue with that, since that's basically what he said in no uncertain terms. I think he is wrong, but that was his opinion.

5. Lebron left for the Heat, which is probably going to give him the best chance at multiple Championships as he starts to enter the the "important" years of his career.

I think every year is important, but he is entering what is traditionally considered one's "prime". Of course, I'm not sure how accurate those timetables are anymore considering he came into the league when he was 18...but I still think his best immediate shot of winning was with the Cavs. This Miami lunacy will probably work out, but right now all we have is hearsay and conjecture (those are "kinds" of evidence....). In contrast, we have 1 finals trip and 2 straight 60-win seasons as evidence to show how competitive Cleveland was right now.

6. Due to Lebron's youth and stupidity/poor judgment that usually comes with youth, rather than surround himself with real professionals to guide his career, he chose to star in the NBA version of Entourage. This decision I'm sure had a hand in what become the Lebronathon Free Agent tour. What doe's "Ray Ray' and Junebug" that lived around the corner from you know about running an NBA career?

100% agreement. Couldn't have said it better myself.

10. Cleveland's owner HAD to write the letter that he did. It was smart. You play on the emotions of your fans when they are dazed, confused and disoriented. You take the key opportunity to paint Lebron as a traitor and a villian thus shifting all the blame on him while you divert the fan's eyes from the fact that you have failed as an owner for the past 7 years. You had the greatest draft pick ever and failed to give him any LEGIT reason to stay for 7 more years.

I don't think Gilbert HAD to write that letter; in fact, I would argue that's the one thing he should NOT have done - he immediately ceded the high-ground in the national conversation. I think he did it because he was passionate about the team and how it all went down, and that's what I loved about it - it was the exact wrong thing to do rationally/politically, and simultaneously the most honest thing I've seen in sports in years. No buffed-up vaguely neutral PR statement, just what the man-in-the-street thinks at that moment. And his "failure" as an owner? See reply to #1.

"Greatest draft pick ever"? I think the 3rd pick of the 1984 draft was probably at least on-par...as was the first pick that year. Or the 2nd pick of the 1981 draft...1st pick in '97...13th in '96....the list could go on forever here. Point being, once again everyone is so infatuated with our own time that everything that happened pre-2000 is apparently unworthy.

11. At the end of the day, Cleveland fans... get over it. He's gone... and lets be honest here, you burn his jersey and tear down his posters and persecute him and you say it's because HOW he left Cleveland when the REAL TALK here is that the only way Lebron could have prevented how you all are acting was to STAY in Cleveland. He could have made the classiest departure ever by an exiting free agent and you know deep down inside you STILL would have acted the way you are acting now becaue at the end of the day, its not how he left that upsets you... it's the fact that he left period. If he had done all these things during free agency that you criticize him on and persecute him on BUT at the end of it all he announced he was staying in Cleveland, all the theatrics leading up to that decision would have been forgiven.

Makes you wonder why a Chris Bosh didnt want to play in Cleveland even if Lebron was going to stay there.

Cleveland will get over it, eventually, but it's not your (nor my) place to tell them how/when to feel about it. There are a vanishingly few superstar athletes that find themselves in the absolute nexus of a perfect storm of circumstances such as LeBron: hometown kid, born-and-raised in the area, entered the league to massive hype and miraculously(?) was drafted by his own down-on-its-luck hometown team, largely lived up to the hype and helped lead an unbelievable turnaround for the squad and city, was embraced by everyone to a borderline familial extent, and was poised to take them to the city's first title in ages....I mean, if you wrote a movie like that in Hollywood people would laugh and say it was too unbelieveable. Everything was perfect....until it wasn't.

Yes, people would have been upset no matter what that he was leaving. That's the mistake people make by allowing themselves to fall for athletes, as Ohio did in spades for their kid LeBron. Deep down, every adult knows they don't give 2 s*t's about you, but once every few decades someone comes along and you suspend that cynicism and let yourself fall head-over-heels for someone...and then when the bubble bursts, you feel extra-stupid that you ever let yourself get attached. Well, that was the case in Cleveland, except x100 due to all the aforementioned factors. And while everyone would've been upset he was leaving, the outright anger was DEFINITELY in the way he went about his business. There's just no question - had he NOT done the douchebag ESPN special (which ESPN and Jim Gray share equal culpability in...I lost what little respect I had for ESPN in this whole debacle, and I had none for Gray to begin with), and instead leveled with the Cavs, then had a regular press conference in Cleveland and fielded questions like a man, taken out a full-page ad in the Plain-Dealer thanking the fans for their support and wishing the Cavs well, I seriously doubt the same visceral reaction would have ensued. In fact, I know it wouldn't. Grant Hill's leaving Detroit in 2000, while certainly not on-par with LeBron's leaving Cleveland in terms of impact on the community, was nonetheless analagous - he was a beloved lone superstar on a team near-and-dear to our hearts, and while we were upset he left, he was first-class about it all the way. Let the 'Stones front office know well in advance, did the Motown press conference, fielded questions like a man, then took out a full-page ad to thank Detroit's fans and let them know his time there meant something. While people were disappointed and upset, they understood his decision and people wished him well in the end. Fast-forward 10 years, and he is remembered fondly in D-town...not the least for the way he carried himself during his time here (and on his way out). I guess that just shows you the difference in class between someone like G-Hill (all class) and someone like LeBron (no class).

In the end, LeBron may win a bunch of titles and people may largely forget about this whole debacle, but he will never be loved the way he could have been had he tried to bring the title to Cleveland (as opposed to chase it in Miami). As it turns out, he doesn't really care. Which is fine, as long as he heeds the advice of Tom Wolfe's 1940 classic (You Can't Go Home Again)...although I seriously doubt he will ever be aware of Wolfe's (or any other literary great's) existence. After all, it's his world - the rest of us just rent here.

[55]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL <nobr>WIN</nobr> AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE"


You can take it to the bank.

The fans took it to the bank alright, Mr. Gilbert. You just didn't have the assets to cash the check.

If Cleveland fans want to be pissed off at anyone right now, they should be pissed off at this bigmouth.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

Anyone who took that guarantee seriously was foolish. *Prays there is no embarrassing quote early in this thread.*

[The 24th Letter]

[/INDENT]
The fans took it to the bank alright, Mr. Gilbert. You just didn't have the assets to cash the check....

A lot of overdraft fees getting charged tonight...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

Anybody that took that quote literally and seriously is an idiot(no offense), I'm sorry.

[The 24th Letter]

Im pretty sure everyone knows it wasn't literal, but just like the "not 1" quote, people are going to crow you for it...

[HMcCoy]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

[/INDENT]
The fans took it to the bank alright, Mr. Gilbert. You just didn't have the assets to cash the check.

If Cleveland fans want to be pissed off at anyone right now, they should be pissed off at this bigmouth.

Yeah, we all thought the Ryan Hollins/Boobie Gibson/Jawad Williams Big Three would come through. Damn you and your false hopes Gilbert.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

Im pretty sure everyone knows it wasn't literal, but just like the "not 1" quote, people are going to crow you for it...

Apparently not.

[55]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

I understand that, fellas.

Still though, he really shouldn't have said that.

[Bolt957]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

If you really think about it, does anyone really think LeBron would have won a ring in Cleveland? Seriously, Dan Gilbert gets guys like a washed up Leon Powe & a declined Antawn Jamison and says they gonna help him win a championship?? Please. . .save your breath, I didn't agree with the way LeBron left, but I'm glad he realized what Gilbert was doing & left the Cavs. Now he has a ring, something he wouldn't have had in Cleveland.

[Thelorn]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

If you really think about it, does anyone really think LeBron would have won a ring in Cleveland? Seriously, Dan Gilbert gets guys like a washed up Leon Powe & a declined Antawn Jamison and says they gonna help him win a championship?? Please. . .save your breath, I didn't agree with the way LeBron left, but I'm glad he realized what Gilbert was doing & left the Cavs. Now he has a ring, something he wouldn't have had in Cleveland.

Yawn, Lebron requested Antawn Jamison, and played on the high school team of Leon Powe and was signed for $800k in hopes his knee healed. There were a few playoff teams interested in Powe hoping his knee recovered. Everyone seems to know everything about Cleveland now that Lebron got a ring. Tell me, what's Cleveland's plans for the draft?

[ubernoob]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

Tell me, what's Cleveland's plans for the draft?

Size and depth.

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

I hate these," We couldnt get talent around Lebron comments". After the 08 season, we got Mo Williams and had a 66 win season, followed by a 61 win season. I know we didnt go where we wanted to go, but Dan Gilbert did everything he could to try and build a championship team. Lebron did little if anything to help recruit players to our team, blaming Gilbert and Cleveland is a lazy argument IMO. We could have gotten Amare, but PHX didnt want to deal. We had a deal in place to get Bosh, he didnt want to come for whatever reason(mainly knowing he was going to MIA with Wade and Lebron). As soon as Lebron left for MIA, he already started recruiting for Z and Fisher, where was that when we were going after players.

As for Gilbert, Im glad he has learned that you cant let a player control your franchise like we did, as well as ORL. Hopefully we build a team with Kyrie and Thompson and continue to build through the draft to find our players. Use FA as a way to add to our depth. Having Kyrie is a great start for our rebuild, he will be a top 5 PG IMO very soon.

[wwharton]

Re: Dan Gilbert.

Don't turn this into another Lebron thread people.