Carmelo Anthony Traded To New York

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  • elprez98
    MVP
    • Dec 2003
    • 4237

    #226
    Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

    Plus I'm not sure how many Bulls games you guys watched but there is a distinct difference between the Bulls with/without Noah. The kid averaged what, 12 and 10 in the regular season and 16 and 13 in the playoffs, with good, smart defense. And we should trade that for another scorer? I'm sure we'd be more exciting but are we a better team?

    Hell no.
    Originally posted by My Wife
    "The Celtics only won because they have a magical elf playing for their team...."

    Comment

    • ProfessaPackMan
      Bamma
      • Mar 2008
      • 63852

      #227
      Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

      Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Denver said that if they were to move Melo that they wanted Expirings, Talent AND Draft Picks in return for Melo? Basically start the rebuild process ASAP? Because if so then it doesn't make much sense taking Deng and his contract if you're trying to clear room AND bring in talent but not bring in big money contracts in return.
      #RespectTheCulture

      Comment

      • ehh
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2003
        • 28962

        #228
        Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

        Well according to some more reliable people Denver hasn't discussed any trades whatsoever so they haven't said anything about anything. But I imagine if it does come down to them moving Melo they'd want to start from scratch.
        "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

        "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

        Comment

        • elprez98
          MVP
          • Dec 2003
          • 4237

          #229
          Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

          Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
          I didn't say you said anything. IMO it's near fact that you guys won't win with your squad if you extend Noah/Rose. Unless I'm reading the cap wrong, with Deng/Boozer already in the fold, that would be your team for the foreseeable future.

          The second part of your statement is definitely not fact.

          Just refer to my previous post. With Melo/Rose/Boozer you can still afford to get you another big man to get you over the hump besides Taj Gibson who is developing into a nice PF himself.
          Another big man? Like who? Good big men are few and far between. Il really like Taj's game but he is 6'8. He's not a real big man.
          Originally posted by My Wife
          "The Celtics only won because they have a magical elf playing for their team...."

          Comment

          • ProfessaPackMan
            Bamma
            • Mar 2008
            • 63852

            #230
            Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

            And that's the part I don't understand from that Yahoo article(which I think is 100% BS anyway along with every report they've put out about this)how does the Nuggets taking Deng(his contract specifically, not talking about the talent)help them start that process?
            #RespectTheCulture

            Comment

            • ex carrabba fan
              I'll thank him for you
              • Oct 2004
              • 32744

              #231
              Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

              Deng would need to be a part of the deal to match salaries. I don't know how else Melo would come over, unless I missed it in the articles.

              The bottom line: You have a much better chance at a title with:

              Rose/Melo/Boozer/Role player Center [could be an exception type player or someone who takes a paycut to play with such a loaded squad].

              than

              Rose/Deng/Boozer/Noah and your team being pretty much capped out

              All of this is moot because Chicago is now negotiating an extension for Noah.

              "Be advised that the Bulls are actually working on something else Noah-related: Getting him locked in for the long term with a contract extension," Stein wrote.

              Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...#ixzz0z8jXbY4c

              Comment

              • ProfessaPackMan
                Bamma
                • Mar 2008
                • 63852

                #232
                Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                But again, why would they take on his contract when they would be trying to get rid of contracts so they could start their rebuild? They'd be helping Melo out and hurting themselves in the process instead of doing both, IMO.

                And if they will indeed have to move him, then they can do better than getting Deng back in exchange for him.
                #RespectTheCulture

                Comment

                • ex carrabba fan
                  I'll thank him for you
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 32744

                  #233
                  Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                  Originally posted by elprez98
                  Another big man? Like who? Good big men are few and far between. Il really like Taj's game but he is 6'8. He's not a real big man.
                  Someone in the Cartwright or Longley mold.

                  As limited as the field is for bigs, I'm sure there will be some available next Summer.

                  I don't care enough to bother looking, but let's not act as if there are 0 out there.

                  The point being, you really think keeping Noah over Melo is the better option only lends to the assumption that CHI fans love overrating their players.

                  Don't get me wrong I love Noah and I know Chicago will be close in the coming years, but if you lock that team up as is they aren't going to ever win a title, barring they get gift wrapped a player in return for Deng.

                  Comment

                  • elprez98
                    MVP
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 4237

                    #234
                    Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan

                    Rose/Melo/Boozer/Role player Center [could be an exception type player or someone who takes a paycut to play with such a loaded squad].

                    than

                    Rose/Deng/Boozer/Noah and your team being pretty much capped out
                    And that's where we disagree. Melo doesn't do enough all-around play for me. Hell that's why he's a bonefidesuperstar but not quite on the Kobe/Wade/Lebron level. He doesn't hustle for four quarters, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, doesn't play defense, and doesn't always take great shots. With his talent he should be consistently shooting above 50%, but he doesn't want to work in the post and settles for crappy jumpers.

                    I'm not taking that guy, regardless of how much he scores, unless everyone else on my team can up the slack in every other area. I'd get rid of Boozer for Melo before moving Noah.
                    Originally posted by My Wife
                    "The Celtics only won because they have a magical elf playing for their team...."

                    Comment

                    • ProfessaPackMan
                      Bamma
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 63852

                      #235
                      Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                      Going by ehh's description of someone in the Cartwright/Longley mold(which seems just about as accurate as you're gonna get)I can tell you for certain that you won't find players like that on the fly and cheap out in the open market as those types of players will probably be locked up by their teams.
                      #RespectTheCulture

                      Comment

                      • Dice
                        Sitting by the door
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 6627

                        #236
                        Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                        Originally posted by ehh
                        Yet the Bulls never won anything with MJ until the Cartwright trade when they actually got a real center who could fill the role Chicago desperately needed.

                        Cartwright, Longley, etc weren't stiffs or bums - they filled their role of size, defending (which pretty much meant clogging the paint in their cases) and rebounding. They were also smart big men which is definitely a rarity these days. Those guys are better than anything Chicago has on the roster right now in terms of rebounding/interior defense IF Noah is shipped out.

                        In the NBA in this day and age those type of bigs are few and far between and are def not easy to come across. You can't go get 20 guys like them, not a chance. You couldn't 15-20 years ago either. You can't just go find 7'2 guys who give you 10 points, 5 boards and 3 dimes, good defense and no headaches. If you could then teams like the Bulls and Knicks would be in much better positions. People are paying $10m/yr for Brendan Haywood for Christ's sake.

                        At this point in time, neither talent nor size are easy to come by in the NBA but both are mandatory to win a championship.



                        Just like I want the Knicks to stay put and not try to trade for Melo, I think that's in Chicago's best interest as well.
                        And you're totally missing the point. Longley nor Cartwright weren't bums by any stretch. However, they were not elite centers neither. Average at best. The whole point is how many people I can find that can replace what he brings to the table. I can find guys who can do what Noah does. Noah is a big man who's a 10(pts)-10(reb) guy. Right? How about David Lee? Troy Murphy anyone? Kevin Love? I'm pretty sure if I had a high enough pick I can get a guy who can get me 10 pts and 10 rebs.

                        NOW, how many 28pt scorers are you going to find? Lebron, Durrant and Kobe are the only ones that come to mind. And those guys, compared to the ones I mentioned in the Noah comaprison, are All-NBAers.

                        Now will the Bulls win the championship next year if this trade goes down? Probably not. BUT you better scoop up as much talent as you can because Miami is going to be a force for the next couple of years. And Rose-Noah-Boozer is not going to be enough.
                        I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                        Comment

                        • ex carrabba fan
                          I'll thank him for you
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 32744

                          #237
                          Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                          Originally posted by elprez98
                          And that's where we disagree. Melo doesn't do enough all-around play for me. Hell that's why he's a bonefidesuperstar but not quite on the Kobe/Wade/Lebron level. He doesn't hustle for four quarters, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, doesn't play defense, and doesn't always take great shots. With his talent he should be consistently shooting above 50%, but he doesn't want to work in the post and settles for crappy jumpers.

                          I'm not taking that guy, regardless of how much he scores, unless everyone else on my team can up the slack in every other area. I'd get rid of Boozer for Melo before moving Noah.
                          OK, that's fine I didn't expect a different statement.
                          Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                          Going by ehh's description of someone in the Cartwright/Longley mold(which seems just about as accurate as you're gonna get)I can tell you for certain that you won't find players like that on the fly and cheap out in the open market as those types of players will probably be locked up by their teams.
                          You never know though. Like I said, there are players out there who would probably take the MLE AKA a paycut to play with such a loaded team. You never know until the Summer hits.

                          Just browsing I see Dalembert, Pryzbilla, Turiaf, KMart maybe even a Jeff Foster or Hilton Armstrong...

                          Comment

                          • ehh
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 28962

                            #238
                            Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                            You are completely ignoring Noah's defense.

                            David Lee, the guy who plays no defense and just got an $80 million dollar deal? That guy?

                            Kevin Love plays below the rim and though he is a good rebounder he's not doing jack on D in the paint against good teams/players. When he's an FA he's going to be making $10m+ a year - give or take on the new CBA.

                            And Troy Murphy makes $12 million a year and is also another good rebounder who isn't a great defender.

                            Again - these players aren't cheap (Love is still in his rookie deal) and they don't even bring anything in terms of defense that you need on a championship contender. Not to mention Love and Lee are undersized and definitely aren't centers.
                            Last edited by ehh; 09-10-2010, 10:40 AM.
                            "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                            "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                            Comment

                            • King_B_Mack
                              All Star
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 24450

                              #239
                              Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                              Seriously, since when has coming across GOOD talented big men been easy? The Lakers are the team you have to beat if you want to win a championship. You're not beating them with a frontcourt of Melo, Boozer, Asik. Someone in your frontcourt has to be a defensive presence. The thing with Noah that makes it a different situation than not trading Deng is Noah is actually a hard worker who we are seeing improve his game every year since he's been in the league and he has intangibles that Deng has NEVER shown. Noah is gonna go hard every time on the floor whether they're up by 20 or down by 20. Melo when frustrated will take plays off, take bad shots and slack off on defense. When you've got a nobody at the 5 you can't afford to have that. What everyone talking about MJ's Bulls seem to be leaving out of the point is that you can afford to have past their prime guys like Cartwright and Longley in the middle because you had TWO (with Bill) and at least THREE (with Luc) All-Team defense caliber defenders on the court making plays on the defensive end.

                              We just saw this year, Perkins goes down and the Lakers have their championship parade on the glass with Kobe snatching down 15 for a win. The Bulls as are can be legit title contenders with just another shooter. As Pac said also, the Nuggets are not taking back Deng's contract in starting a rebuilding phase. The Bulls don't have to worry about Rose's contract for another two years anyway at which point they've set themselves up already with the moves they made this year to have money for then so guys talking about the Bulls being handicapped with cap because of resigning Noah are talking out of their *** right now. You think the Bulls weren't thinking about the fact that they were going to have to pay Noah and Rose when they were making moves this year? Come on man, don't be silly.

                              Comment

                              • ehh
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 28962

                                #240
                                Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                                Exactly.

                                Going to get any "10 & 10" big doesn't cut it. Hell, I think Perkins averaged less than that in the post season but he's a huge piece to Boston's puzzle. It's about so much more than numbers when it comes to big men - it's their presence and affect on the entire game. Hell if Perk only averages 5 rebounds in the Finals but he keeps Pau and/or Bynum off the glass and his teammates get the defensive rebound it's a major positive and something that never shows up in any statistic.

                                The best case scenarios for the Knicks and Bulls is to wait it out and try to acquire Melo as an FA so they don't have to sacrifice anything. If that doesn't happen then you move on - just like both teams did this summer when they failed to land LBJ. Both have money to spend next summer, see what you can get in FA.
                                "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                                "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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