Carmelo Anthony Traded To New York

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Yes, he's about average. He's not a bad player BUT it's not like he's nothing special to write about. Energy and hustle players come a dime a dozen. Whenever I hear someone use that term I think, "He's strong at doing ONE OR TWO THINGS but weak at other aspects of his game." And as for him being a phenomenal rebounder, he is 6'11". So I actually expect that from him.

As I stated before, I can name a couple of players in the league that can give you the same production as Noah. Dalembert, Bogut, Horford, Bynum, Kaman, Lee, Boozer, Love just to name a few. And how many players can you name me that gives me the same production, or better, as a Carmelo Anthony? Try Wade, James, Bryant and Durrant. Now you see the difference of players I could replace with Noah compared to Anthony? The guys I just mentioned for Anthony are franchise players. The guys I mentioned for Noah are decent BUT not even on the level of franchise player.

Which means, Carmelo is a franchise player. And the opportunity to get a franchise player is very rare. The Bulls better seriously think about this if there talking about winning a championship in the next couple of years. I know the detractors will ask, "Does this give Chicago a solid chance at the championship?" Not really. At least for this season. BUT this trade does make them a better team. This trade may not solidify their championship chances this year but it does bring them closer to being a championship team. The Lakers didn't win the championship the first year they traded for Gasol, so why are we expecting the same from the Bulls?

I respect your basketball opinion Dice, but now you're just shortchanging Noah for the sake of saying the Bulls should trade him. Boozer can match his production, David Lee? This isn't just about stats, this about presence, this is about making someone work to get they're points in the paint. This is about a stablizing force in the locker room that other guys can feed off. Noah has intangibles that not one of the so called dime a dozen guys you just name has. Rose is not a vocal leader, Carmelo Anthony is a piss poor leader, we know what kind of guy Boozer is. Noah brings something to the Bulls team that goes further than just how many points he puts on the board. If it was easy to get a solid, significant presence in the middle, then every team in the league would have one but it isn't easy.

Furthermore after watching the FIBA tournament this year and Rose's performance next to Durant, I'm not convinced his game will continue to blossom and prosper with him having to be Melo's sidekick. Rose WANTS to be the guy in Chicago and everyone is basically saying he can't be that without a LeBron or a Carmelo to come lead him. I don't care what anybody says this Bulls team with a solid 2 guard (which is actually easier to get than another Noah) is better than a Bulls team with Carmelo and the corpse of a center at the five.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

This is my favorite trade easily: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=39bf6rn

Throw in a 1st rounder from the Nets and that's a great return and I think all parties would be pretty happy.

[dossier]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

This is my favorite trade easily: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=39bf6rn

Throw in a 1st rounder from the Nets and that's a great return and I think all parties would be pretty happy.

philly wold never do that trade, the are infatuated with Jrue Holliday and they get much worse, like raptors bad

[Dice]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

I respect your basketball opinion Dice, but now you're just shortchanging Noah for the sake of saying the Bulls should trade him. Boozer can match his production, David Lee? This isn't just about stats, this about presence, this is about making someone work to get they're points in the paint. This is about a stablizing force in the locker room that other guys can feed off. Noah has intangibles that not one of the so called dime a dozen guys you just name has. Rose is not a vocal leader, Carmelo Anthony is a piss poor leader, we know what kind of guy Boozer is. Noah brings something to the Bulls team that goes further than just how many points he puts on the board. If it was easy to get a solid, significant presence in the middle, then every team in the league would have one but it isn't easy.

Furthermore after watching the FIBA tournament this year and Rose's performance next to Durant, I'm not convinced his game will continue to blossom and prosper with him having to be Melo's sidekick. Rose WANTS to be the guy in Chicago and everyone is basically saying he can't be that without a LeBron or a Carmelo to come lead him. I don't care what anybody says this Bulls team with a solid 2 guard (which is actually easier to get than another Noah) is better than a Bulls team with Carmelo and the corpse of a center at the five.

And I respect your opinion. And I think your over-valuing Noah. I understand where your coming from with the intangibles. It is important. BUT at the same time, you got to look at the talent first before we start talking about intangibles. Intangibles can only get you so far. There is a point where talent will come to play. Because the championship contending teams normally have good chemistry. What separates them is talent.

Now Noah can be the starting center for a championship team. BUT Noah would probably be maybe the fourth or fifth best player on a championship team. Noah right now is probably the 2nd or 3rd best player on the Bulls and that's not going to work. Trust me, I love what Noah brings but if there is an opportunity to grab a player like Carmelo, then you take it.

Now I understand your point about Carmelo and his leadership. BUT I just think that Carmelo(in some sense like LeBron) doesn't want to take the mantle of leader for his team. Which is fine because I think if he comes to the Bulls that he'll let Rose be the leader. And Carmelo needs to play with a PG like Rose. You saw how his game elevated when Billups came to the Nuggets. And Carmelo had no problem letting Billups be the vocal leader because Melo knew he wasn't up to it. And he knew that his game would get better if he just let Billups run the offense.

Which comes to my last part. There is a difference between being the best player on a team and being the leader. I think people worry about his leadership skills because if he comes to the Bulls he would be the leader of this team. Which to me will not be the case. YES, he might be the best player on the Bulls but Rose will continue to be the leader of this team. Now in most cases, the best player is the leader. BUT in some cases that's not the true. Before Magic became the official leader of the Lakers, Kareem had that mantle. Even though Magic was the best player on the team for those championship years in the 80's. Most people argue that the 3-peat Lakers of 2000's that Kobe probably was the best player on that team. But the undisputed leader of that team was Shaq-daddy.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

And I respect your opinion. And I think your over-valuing Noah. I understand where your coming from with the intangibles. It is important. BUT at the same time, you got to look at the talent first before we start talking about intangibles. Intangibles can only get you so far. There is a point where talent will come to play. Because the championship contending teams normally have good chemistry. What separates them is talent.

Now Noah can be the starting center for a championship team. BUT Noah would probably be maybe the fourth or fifth best player on a championship team. Noah right now is probably the 2nd or 3rd best player on the Bulls and that's not going to work. Trust me, I love what Noah brings but if there is an opportunity to grab a player like Carmelo, then you take it.

Now I understand your point about Carmelo and his leadership. BUT I just think that Carmelo(in some sense like LeBron) doesn't want to take the mantle of leader for his team. Which is fine because I think if he comes to the Bulls that he'll let Rose be the leader. And Carmelo needs to play with a PG like Rose. You saw how his game elevated when Billups came to the Nuggets. And Carmelo had no problem letting Billups be the vocal leader because Melo knew he wasn't up to it. And he knew that his game would get better if he just let Billups run the offense.

Which comes to my last part. There is a difference between being the best player on a team and being the leader. I think people worry about his leadership skills because if he comes to the Bulls he would be the leader of this team. Which to me will not be the case. YES, he might be the best player on the Bulls but Rose will continue to be the leader of this team. Now in most cases, the best player is the leader. BUT in some cases that's not the true. Before Magic became the official leader of the Lakers, Kareem had that mantle. Even though Magic was the best player on the team for those championship years in the 80's. Most people argue that the 3-peat Lakers of 2000's that Kobe probably was the best player on that team. But the undisputed leader of that team was Shaq-daddy.

That's really one of the problems I have with this though. Rose really isn't the leader of this team. He's leader in the sense that he's the best player, but he and Noah are the two leaders of that team and Noah is the heart of the team. I know everyone likes to look at the Bulls not wanting to part with Deng and what happened with that but Deng did not bring to the team what Noah does. Deng didn't and still doesn't have the work ethic that Noah does. We've already had a locker room with 'leaders' who don't even talk or are too soft spoken and not filled with enough passion and fire to actually make a difference with guys. Furthermore I just don't see how putting a gaping hole in the middle of your defense makes you better cause you'll have a guy scoring 28 points per game. LeBron averages almost thirty a game now, how's that worked out for him? Melo has averaged 28 for a while now, how's that going for him?

If you make a deal like this I expect a championship this year or next year otherwise how is it really THAT much better than what they're doing now? They've got shooters around Rose, he's got Boozer for the pick and roll game, Deng's going to dump in 17 and 5 at least, maybe even more now that he's not relied upon as a second scoring option. A solid starting 2 guard and the Bulls are legit contenders in the East. Whereas we trade Noah, probably Deng and Taj in the trade to get Melo and then Boozer goes down. Then what? Or how about futher down the line instead of needing that one piece to put you over the hump, you now need to make several moves for team depth since you'll have lost Noah, Deng and Taj (potentially) and at least one first round pick that would land you that big man that's so easy to come by. So in the next two years, you still aren't winning a championship, so what the hell was the point? Bron and Wade aren't spot up shooters, you don't have to worry too much about they're jumpshots, them dominating inside along with Bosh is what you have to worry about. How does getting rid of your inside presence to get Melo make you better than them in a seven game series?

[Dice]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

That's really one of the problems I have with this though. Rose really isn't the leader of this team. He's leader in the sense that he's the best player, but he and Noah are the two leaders of that team and Noah is the heart of the team. I know everyone likes to look at the Bulls not wanting to part with Deng and what happened with that but Deng did not bring to the team what Noah does. Deng didn't and still doesn't have the work ethic that Noah does. We've already had a locker room with 'leaders' who don't even talk or are too soft spoken and not filled with enough passion and fire to actually make a difference with guys. Furthermore I just don't see how putting a gaping hole in the middle of your defense makes you better cause you'll have a guy scoring 28 points per game. LeBron averages almost thirty a game now, how's that worked out for him? Melo has averaged 28 for a while now, how's that going for him?

If you make a deal like this I expect a championship this year or next year otherwise how is it really THAT much better than what they're doing now? They've got shooters around Rose, he's got Boozer for the pick and roll game, Deng's going to dump in 17 and 5 at least, maybe even more now that he's not relied upon as a second scoring option. A solid starting 2 guard and the Bulls are legit contenders in the East. Whereas we trade Noah, probably Deng and Taj in the trade to get Melo and then Boozer goes down. Then what? Or how about futher down the line instead of needing that one piece to put you over the hump, you now need to make several moves for team depth since you'll have lost Noah, Deng and Taj (potentially) and at least one first round pick that would land you that big man that's so easy to come by. So in the next two years, you still aren't winning a championship, so what the hell was the point? Bron and Wade aren't spot up shooters, you don't have to worry too much about they're jumpshots, them dominating inside along with Bosh is what you have to worry about. How does getting rid of your inside presence to get Melo make you better than them in a seven game series?

Well, here's where you and me separate because I think Rose will be the leader of this team this year. Yes, last year it was a shared responsibility between Noah and Rose. Rose is going to make his leap this year on being the 'best PG in the league.' So I going out to say that he's going to be the undisputed leader of this team, along with being labeled the best PG in the league this year.

And you cannot fool yourself thinking that getting Melo this year will put us up there with the Lakers. That's not the case. Because it'll take a season-ending injury to Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Paul Pierce for us to have a shot at the championship. This move is strictly for next year and beyond. And depth is only necessary if you don't have star power in your first string. Think the Heat are worried about their depth? And when I mean star power I mean guys who opposing coaches gameplan for. Rose is the only one in our lineup that would probably give coaches head aches when putting together a defensive game plan. Ronnie Brewer is a non-factor on offense. Deng is only good for mid range spot up shooter and maybe slashing. Boozer is good when he has a player his height and shorter. And you already know Noah deficiencies on offense. He's only good for garbage points. You add Melo to the mix now you got two people in the lineup coaches have to worry about.

And as far as big men in today's game and being a factor on a championship team, how's Dwight Howard working out? He's suppose to be the best center in the league. Has he won a championship yet? How about Chris Bosh? Not yet? Yeah, he has to team up with LeBron and Wade to get one of those LOL! And I know what your thinking, Gasol has won two championships. OK, but how many did he win in Memphis? And if you seriously think that if you subtracted Kobe from the Lakers and still think they are a championship team then you are seriously delusional.

You agree that with the current roster we are not going to win the title this year. Well, if we go into next season with this team do we still have a shot? And if you say we can add someone next year and be championship contenders who do you have in mind that's going to stop the run away train of the Miami Heat?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

This is my favorite trade easily: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=39bf6rn

Throw in a 1st rounder from the Nets and that's a great return and I think all parties would be pretty happy.

Hmm I like this as it would let us keep at least ONE of our PFs(Murphy)and a Lineup of Farmar, Melo, Murphy, and Lopez wouldn't be too bad and could possibly be good enough to contend at least for the 8th spot and would help speed up dossier's thought of us being among the East's Elite in 2 years

Don't the Sixers still have Brand and his contract though? Wouldn't they want to move him or would Thorn keep him in there so he wouldn't have to throw Favors into the fire off the break?

[WTF]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5602165

And word is that he's expected to be dealt before training camp... so that's right around the corner. Very interested to see how this pans out.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

I don't think he's going anywhere before camp, especially since it's not that far away. This is something that'll probably happen during the season but the only thing that is CERTAIN(despite all the rumors of which teams he wants to go to)is that Denver won't let him walk and not take anything in return. That is the only lock in all of this right now.

[Vast]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Damn man. As a Knicks fan this is painful! He wants to come here, he's a top notch player, and .... we just can't make it happen.

[Dice]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Damn man. As a Knicks fan this is painful! He wants to come here, he's a top notch player, and .... we just can't make it happen.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69225/20100923/denver_tells_knicks_they_need_1st_round_pick_for_melo_trade/

According to the article, Denver is looking for a first round pick. The Knicks don't have one until 2014. Denver is looking for one earlier than that. The Knicks apparently had a first round pick for 2012 but traded it away along with Jerred Jefferies as a salary dump back in February. This should serve as a warning to teams trying to dump salaries at all cost. Not only did the Knicks loose out on LeBron BUT they had a chance to nab Melo and can't afford him because they put all their chips on LeBron.

[ehh]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Something tells me Denver won't be rushing to complete this deal. Seems like it's going to take a long time to negotiate with other organizations as there are so many variables - namely Melo agreeing to resign. Apparently it's Chicago or bust for this trade since Denver has no interest dealing with the Knicks.

What are the proposed trades involving the Bulls? No Noah apparently, so picks and Gibson/Johnson? Ew.

[Dice]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Something tells me Denver won't be rushing to complete this deal. Seems like it's going to take a long time to negotiate with other organizations as there are so many variables - namely Melo agreeing to resign. Apparently it's Chicago or bust for this trade since Denver has no interest dealing with the Knicks.

What are the proposed trades involving the Bulls? No Noah apparently, so picks and Gibson/Johnson? Ew.

Reports here out of Chicago says that the Nuggets want to get this deal done before training camp, which if I'm not mistaken is Monday.

And I will reiterate this one more time, I cannot believe that the Bulls are holding up this deal because of Noah. I'm willing to bet you the other 29 GM's would have made this deal by now.

Maybe I might be looking at it the wrong way. Maybe the Bulls is just waiting out Denver to lower the price. I can understand to try and make a deal without giving up Noah. That would be even better! At that point, the Bulls can compete for the title. BUT if Denver won't budge(or Denver is seriously considering another team) then you pull the trigger and tell the kid, 'Good Luck in the mile high city'

[Kashanova]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...or_melo_trade/

According to the article, Denver is looking for a first round pick. The Knicks don't have one until 2014. Denver is looking for one earlier than that. The Knicks apparently had a first round pick for 2012 but traded it away along with Jerred Jefferies as a salary dump back in February. This should serve as a warning to teams trying to dump salaries at all cost. Not only did the Knicks loose out on LeBron BUT they had a chance to nab Melo and can't afford him because they put all their chips on LeBron.

If they can get a third team this can be feasible

[TMagic]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Reports here out of Chicago says that the Nuggets want to get this deal done before training camp, which if I'm not mistaken is Monday.

And I will reiterate this one more time, I cannot believe that the Bulls are holding up this deal because of Noah. I'm willing to bet you the other 29 GM's would have made this deal by now.

Maybe I might be looking at it the wrong way. Maybe the Bulls is just waiting out Denver to lower the price. I can understand to try and make a deal without giving up Noah. That would be even better! At that point, the Bulls can compete for the title. BUT if Denver won't budge(or Denver is seriously considering another team) then you pull the trigger and tell the kid, 'Good Luck in the mile high city'

You know, I thought about this before and is EXACTLY what I would do if I were the Bulls. It just makes sense to me.

Say that Noah isn't going anywhere, in an attempt to get Melo without giving up Noah. Even though I know that I am really willing to give up Noah to get a player of Melo's caliber. But I'm not gonna let them know that. Then when it gets down to the wire say, "Alright alright. You can have Noah." Even though all along I was willing to do it from the jump.

Just seems like the smartest thing to do IMO.

If they are able to keep Noah and attain Melo. Oh Baby! (In And 1 street announcer voice).