Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

[NovaStar]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

Jordan will always be better no matter what Lebron does in his career for the following reasons.

Jordan played team ball, Lebron never has and never will
Jordan had class, Lebron never has had it and never will
Jordan made the team around him better, Lebron makes the team around him worse
Jordan was a great defender, Lebron has never been a great defender and probably never will be
Jordan carried his team in the clutch in big games, Lebron wilts in the clutch in big games
Jordan knew how to be likable in the limelight, Lebron makes himself more unlikable the more limelight he gets
Jordan won championships, Lebron has not and may never match Jordan
Jordan was loved by the public, even non-Chicago fans, Lebron was only ever loved by his teams fans

And finally,

Jordan represented what was best about the NBA, Lebron represents what is worst about the NBA

So yeah, he's right, Lebron's in a class of his own, but not in the way he meant...

This right here.

[Cebby]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

Jordan will always be better no matter what Lebron does in his career for the following reasons.

Jordan played team ball, Lebron never has and never will
Jordan had class, Lebron never has had it and never will
Jordan made the team around him better, Lebron makes the team around him worse
Jordan was a great defender, Lebron has never been a great defender and probably never will be
Jordan carried his team in the clutch in big games, Lebron wilts in the clutch in big games
Jordan knew how to be likable in the limelight, Lebron makes himself more unlikable the more limelight he gets
Jordan won championships, Lebron has not and may never match Jordan
Jordan was loved by the public, even non-Chicago fans, Lebron was only ever loved by his teams fans

And finally,

Jordan represented what was best about the NBA, Lebron represents what is worst about the NBA

So yeah, he's right, Lebron's in a class of his own, but not in the way he meant...

The only reason anyone believes Jordan had "class" and is "likable" is because he played before the internet and ESPN's descent into TMZ Sports.

I don't even know where to start with the "makes his team better" nonsense. Jordan turned am otherwise top 5 team into a championship team. Lebron took an otherwise bottom 10 team to the NBA Finals.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

There will never be another Michael Jordan.

It goes far beyond being just a great basketball player.

Its hard to explain, but I'll give it my best shot.

What makes Jordan different, is that he (with an assist from Phil Knight), understood the mix between greatness, image, and marketing.

Jordan realized that he was a brand.

He understood that if he gave us what we wanted, he could accomplish what he wanted on his own terms.

Behind the impeccable suits, smile, wheaties boxes, space jam movies, Mcdonalds and shoe commercials, was an uncompromising competitive monster.

He was the Michael Corleone of sports.

He was cold, calculating, obsessed with legacy, but at the same time, loyal to teammates who have earned his trust.

He'd challenge his teammates manhood, to see who had the guts to stand up to him...those who did, guys like Cartwright, Oakley, Armstrong, Paxson, Kerr, Grant, Pippen became his ride or die soldiers, who he knew could get him what he wanted.

Thats what makes MJ different from anyone who has ever played.

Kobe is never passing to Steve Kerr for a game winner.

Lebron, has more Scottie Pippen in him mentally, then any of us thought.
The heavy lifting of a franchise guy was too hard for him, so he ran to ride shotgun with someone who's already done it..and everyone knows it. This convenient myth that poor Lebron has been surrounded by trash, is nonsense. You dont win 60+ games in the NBA surrounded by garbage.

I dont think Lebron has any clue how what he did, is going to alter his legacy, and I dont think he cares all that much about it, which is kind of sad.

[ODogg]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

sportyguyfl31, great post, that's what I was trying to communicate in my post as well. I was going to reply to Cebby but you basically typed what I was going to write anyways. Just to expand a bit on what I meant about Lebron was what you alluded to about Kobe never passing to Kerr for a game winner. Jordan knew when to take it upon his shoulders and do it and when to make someone else shine. Lebron only ever knew how to do half of that equation in Cleveland.

You also make a fantastic point in your last sentence. In many people's eyes Lebron went from a potential Michael Jordan challenger in history to just another Scottie Pippen type player in one fell swoop when he left Cleveland. And just as you say, I'm not sure what is more disturbing, the fact that he did it or the fact he really doesn't care what it did to his legacy.

[RonnieG]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

sportyguyfl31, great post, that's what I was trying to communicate in my post as well. I was going to reply to Cebby but you basically typed what I was going to write anyways. Just to expand a bit on what I meant about Lebron was what you alluded to about Kobe never passing to Kerr for a game winner. Jordan knew when to take it upon his shoulders and do it and when to make someone else shine. Lebron only ever knew how to do half of that equation in Cleveland.

You also make a fantastic point in your last sentence. In many people's eyes Lebron went from a potential Michael Jordan challenger in history to just another Scottie Pippen type player in one fell swoop when he left Cleveland. And just as you say, I'm not sure what is more disturbing, the fact that he did it or the fact he really doesn't care what it did to his legacy.

I think he cares about his legacy. A lot of the problem starts with so much sports discussion emphasizing winning championships. For some ******** reason, its almost as if this is exclusively how you measure greatness now, "how many rings does he have?". Again, its beyond stupid but it permeates peoples ways of thinking. And with that kind of being the tone of the overwhelming majority of "greatness" discussion, Im sure LeBron thought, "I want some of that". And now that he is pursuing it, he might feel like people are moving the goal posts. But what he's not realizing is that, there is no side door to the Hall of Greatness. To get the the Hall of Greatness, you have to go through the front door.

I think that issue has always been there but so much talk is about ring counts that it gets obscured.

[Kashanova]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

Jordan will always be better no matter what Lebron does in his career for the following reasons.

Jordan played team ball, Lebron never has and never will
Jordan had class, Lebron never has had it and never will
Jordan made the team around him better, Lebron makes the team around him worse
Jordan was a great defender, Lebron has never been a great defender and probably never will be
Jordan carried his team in the clutch in big games, Lebron wilts in the clutch in big games
Jordan knew how to be likable in the limelight, Lebron makes himself more unlikable the more limelight he gets
Jordan won championships, Lebron has not and may never match Jordan
Jordan was loved by the public, even non-Chicago fans, Lebron was only ever loved by his teams fans

And finally,

Jordan represented what was best about the NBA, Lebron represents what is worst about the NBA

So yeah, he's right, Lebron's in a class of his own, but not in the way he meant...

what in the world?!?!

Lebron doesn't play team ball? he avg near 9 assists last year
Lebron made his team worst? with out lebron that team doesn't even make the playoffs, also look at his 06 finals team and tell me who on that team led with lebron to take them there
LEbron has also hit many clutch shots in his career


Again I'm not saying lebron is in a class with jordan but if your gonna bash him at least get the facts straight

[jdx66]

The idea that LeBron is more Scottie than Michael is a bit presumptious. Let's let this season play out first. My money says Dwyane Wade takes the back seat in the franchise.

Buckeyes | Cavaliers | Reds | Bengals
Sent from the DROID2.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

In the history of the NBA, here are the only players that are comparable in athleticism to Michael and LeBron.

LeBron: Karl Malone and Dominique Wilkins
Michael: Vince Carter and Penny Hardaway

I think prime Grant Hill is a closer match for Lebron's athleticism than Malone and maybe even Dominique. Nique was a spectacular jumper but that's not the only way to define great athleticism. Even in play style, I'd say Grant Hill is closest though I think Grant was a bit more refined skillwise than Lebron is, he just wasn't quite as overpowering with his athleticism.

Penny Hardaway wasn't nearly the athlete Jordan was. Vince is closer, but mainly as a jumper. He didn't have the lateral quickness and body control in air that Jordan had, and perhaps that's because he had a slightly heavier frame. I think Kobe athletically is a closer match to Jordan than Penny, and he falls short of the mark as well.

[Dewie12]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

Jordan will always be better no matter what Lebron does in his career for the following reasons.

Jordan played team ball, Lebron never has and never will
Jordan had class, Lebron never has had it and never will
Jordan made the team around him better, Lebron makes the team around him worse
Jordan was a great defender, Lebron has never been a great defender and probably never will be
Jordan carried his team in the clutch in big games, Lebron wilts in the clutch in big games
Jordan knew how to be likable in the limelight, Lebron makes himself more unlikable the more limelight he gets
Jordan won championships, Lebron has not and may never match Jordan
Jordan was loved by the public, even non-Chicago fans, Lebron was only ever loved by his teams fans

And finally,

Jordan represented what was best about the NBA, Lebron represents what is worst about the NBA

So yeah, he's right, Lebron's in a class of his own, but not in the way he meant...

Jordan gambled, punched teammates and basically was disliked by most of the league and his organization at the same age as Lebron.

People have this view of Jordan that is so fictionalized and based off of who he was at age 30 and older (wiser and more mature) than the guy he was at the age of Lebron.

Lebron is a much better teammate than Jordan ever was.

I am going to guess you don't watch basketball much at all.

[Bumi]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

How "likable" LeBron is or isn't is now irrelevant. Why? Because he self ether-ed himself. In two or three seasons, perhaps even starting this season, I fully expect KD to eclipse LeBrons overall game and become the face of the NBA and Nike basketball. He that's good, and it seems he has all the right intangibles to make it happen.

[Jasong7777]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

Lebron being seen as "likeable" is done. Unless you are a bandwagon Heat fan. Lebron just needs to win championships. In relation to Jordan, he has no chance of passing him in anything.

[amra01]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

some of you are talking about strength of lebron the guy doesn't know how to use his strength of his body he has zero skills and no control of his body with his back to the basket.
today the league is so much softer than the days jordan was playing.

[candiasis]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

Yeah he's in a class all unto himself, a class under MJ. His post up game is almost non existant atm, a guy with his size and stregth should be able to make a living in the post, especially seeing as how zones are allowed and good defensive teams will collapse and cut off the lane to drives see the opener v celts. The question is does he have the skills to develop this type of game. Hit the video lebron, take lessons from the books of MJ and kobe and grind it out in the gym.

[Archangel Havok]

Re: Oscar Robertson says LeBron better than Jordan...

...at being a sidekick.

I lol'ed at the bitterness