What's wrong with the Knicks?

[PrettyT11]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

The problem with blaming the personnel and not D'Antoni is excusing him from being a coach.

I agree that the roster is weak and is not built to handle the offense D'Antoni made popular in Phoenix, but -

And this is important. He's getting paid a lot of money for this -

But, a coach is supposed to know how to adapt to his personnel. D'Antoni acknowledges that the team needs work but doesn't do something about it. He selfishly pushes his offensive sets despite not having players that can play to it.

If he is such an offensive genius why does he not find a way to exploit the strengths of the roster.

Well said and hit the nail right on the head.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Add to the fact that this "Offensive Guru" has drawn up 3-point plays for Amare to take at the end of close games 3 or 4 games this season.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

The problem with blaming the personnel and not D'Antoni is excusing him from being a coach.

I agree that the roster is weak and is not built to handle the offense D'Antoni made popular in Phoenix, but -

And this is important. He's getting paid a lot of money for this -

But, a coach is supposed to know how to adapt to his personnel. D'Antoni acknowledges that the team needs work but doesn't do something about it. He selfishly pushes his offensive sets despite not having players that can play to it.

If he is such an offensive genius why does he not find a way to exploit the strengths of the roster.

Fans realize this team isn't great. We know they won't win 45 games. But we do expect that the coach will make the best of his personnel. He's not doing that. His actions are that of a man that refuses to see he is wrong and needs to try something different.

Sent from my mobile device.

Good points, but like I said, one of the knocks on D'Antoni is that he's not as flexible and responsive. Gentry has been much better in that regard.

[CMH]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Good points, but like I said, one of the knocks on D'Antoni is that he's not as flexible and responsive. Gentry has been much better in that regard.

I'm not sure what it was that made him that way in Phoenix, but I sure do remember it. He was notorious for running with 8 guys and having in some ways a 7 man reserve roster.

However, with the Knicks, he is way too flexible with his roster. It's been discussed before that he is likely trying to find the right mix, the right formula of players, but that was a passable excuse his first two seasons. He's thrown enough players under the bus for reasons that a lot of the time did not make any sense. Sure, Nate Robinson was a bit of a wild child, but he effectively benched one of his best reserve guards because of...well, no one knows. People were left to assume it was because Robinson was shooting at his own basket.

In the preseason he had great things to say about rookie center Mozgoz. Less than 10 games into the season, he's benched the player for...well, no one really knows. He just decided that he shouldn't play anymore though Mozgov really hasn't done anything wrong but perform exactly as he did in exhibition games - those same exhibition games that D'Antoni talked about so lovingly.

I actually do like that D'Antoni is stubborn. In a weird way it makes me feel like he runs the show. I never get the feeling that a player could ever tell him what to do or try to dictate how things should work. D'Antoni views himself as above the players and really, the league needs more of those guys.

But, something is not right.

The roster needs more work. And I think that roster needs a different coach because this one wants to believe he's still in Phoenix.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

I'm not sure what it was that made him that way in Phoenix, but I sure do remember it. He was notorious for running with 8 guys and having in some ways a 7 man reserve roster.

However, with the Knicks, he is way too flexible with his roster. It's been discussed before that he is likely trying to find the right mix, the right formula of players, but that was a passable excuse his first two seasons. He's thrown enough players under the bus for reasons that a lot of the time did not make any sense. Sure, Nate Robinson was a bit of a wild child, but he effectively benched one of his best reserve guards because of...well, no one knows. People were left to assume it was because Robinson was shooting at his own basket.

In the preseason he had great things to say about rookie center Mozgoz. Less than 10 games into the season, he's benched the player for...well, no one really knows. He just decided that he shouldn't play anymore though Mozgov really hasn't done anything wrong but perform exactly as he did in exhibition games - those same exhibition games that D'Antoni talked about so lovingly.

I actually do like that D'Antoni is stubborn. In a weird way it makes me feel like he runs the show. I never get the feeling that a player could ever tell him what to do or try to dictate how things should work. D'Antoni views himself as above the players and really, the league needs more of those guys.

But, something is not right.

The roster needs more work. And I think that roster needs a different coach because this one wants to believe he's still in Phoenix.

I'm a firm believer that the reason he's like that with the short rotation is that the system is all about flow. Lots of subbing leads to slowing down the game, etc. I think he wants to get the guys as much run time as possible to get them in the best flow as possible.

Also, a lot of times, the short rotation was due to injuries or something else that would keep certain players from being able to play. Prime example is in the 2006 WCF against Dallas, we were basically relegated to playing Nash, Barbosa, Marion, James Jones, Diaw, and Tim Thomas. It was by virtue of necessity.

D'Antoni is definitely "in charge", but is also a players coach. There's a nice balance there. It'd be nice if he used his stubbornness to get the team to focus on rebounding though, to hold players accountable for how they're performing at any given moment.

I always thought the Chicago roster was much better for what D'Antoni wanted to do when he became available in 2008.....he should have gone there.

[Dewie12]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Tony Douglass and the Knicks bench needs to step up. If Tony Douglass can score 15 a game off the bench I think this team will be around .500.

This roster is basically shaken up yet again. I don't think you can blame a coach when your starting PG, SG, PF and C where not with the team last year. That is a huge thing in the NBA.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

The problem with blaming the personnel and not D'Antoni is excusing him from being a coach.

I agree that the roster is weak and is not built to handle the offense D'Antoni made popular in Phoenix, but -

And this is important. He's getting paid a lot of money for this -

But, a coach is supposed to know how to adapt to his personnel. D'Antoni acknowledges that the team needs work but doesn't do something about it. He selfishly pushes his offensive sets despite not having players that can play to it.

If he is such an offensive genius why does he not find a way to exploit the strengths of the roster.

Fans realize this team isn't great. We know they won't win 45 games. But we do expect that the coach will make the best of his personnel. He's not doing that. His actions are that of a man that refuses to see he is wrong and needs to try something different.

Sent from my mobile device.

Exactly.. I understand you're trying to find a rotation to run with, but you have some pieces that can cause match-up problems. Having Toney D @ SG, Wilson @ PF & STAT @ C has been the rotation that's been killing us. This is why we keep getting out rebounded. Wilson IS NOT a PF.

The Timberwolves game is a prime example. STAT get's his 4th foul early in the 3rd quarter & Pringles decides to go small. While the T-Wolves are running with a frontline of Milic, Love & Beasley, were running with Chandler, Gallo & Mozgov. Instead of maybe running Chandler/Gallo, Randolph & Mosgov to match their size maybe get some rebounds.

It's like he doesn't adjust in-game to what other coaches are doing, because his mind is set on the SSOL (7 Seconds Or Less System) on Offense which turns into No Defense

[Jeffx]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

I always thought the Chicago roster was much better for what D'Antoni wanted to do when he became available in 2008.....he should have gone there.

Wasn't it a money issue?

[X*Cell]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

D'Antoni ONLY runs the "Westhead System"... and you need the perfect players for the system to be successful. With the right players, your team is unstoppable, defense, or no defense. Look at the 1980 Lakers. Not a single defensive standout on that team (Wilkes was a few years ago but embraced offense on this team, Cooper wasn't playing much yet, and Abdul-Jabbar could shot-block and that's about it).

They had 2 point guards in Magic & Nixon and could run, run, run... and with efficient shooters like Kareem, Magic, and Spencer Haywood off the bench... you didn't need defense to win.

The Knicks aren't anywhere near having the capable players for this type of system. I just hope they don't fizzle out even more and miss out on the playoffs. New Yorkers will start throwin themselves off skyscrapers.

[Dice]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

D'Antoni ONLY runs the "Westhead System"... and you need the perfect players for the system to be successful. With the right players, your team is unstoppable, defense, or no defense. Look at the 1980 Lakers. Not a single defensive standout on that team (Wilkes was a few years ago but embraced offense on this team, Cooper wasn't playing much yet, and Abdul-Jabbar could shot-block and that's about it).

They had 2 point guards in Magic & Nixon and could run, run, run... and with efficient shooters like Kareem, Magic, and Spencer Haywood off the bench... you didn't need defense to win.

The Knicks aren't anywhere near having the capable players for this type of system. I just hope they don't fizzle out even more and miss out on the playoffs. New Yorkers will start throwin themselves off skyscrapers.

I think your under-valuing Kareem’s defense. He wasn’t JUST a shot blocker, he was the league’s leading shot blocker. He was also on the 1st All-Defensive team that year.

Also, Magic was 5th in the league in steals that year with 187 at 2.4 steals per game. Rondo last year lead the league in steals with 189 steals at 2.3 steals. And this was Magic’s rookie year.

That 80’s team had some good defenders. They weren’t the stoppers that we’re accustomed to watching. They forced turnovers to initiate their offense, “The LA fastbreak”. Their style of defense was more of a gambling style in which it was a high risk, high reward type of philosophy. So the defense was there, just a different style.

[X*Cell]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

I think your under-valuing Kareem’s defense. He wasn’t JUST a shot blocker, he was the league’s leading shot blocker. He was also on the 1st All-Defensive team that year.

Also, Magic was 5th in the league in steals that year with 187 at 2.4 steals per game. Rondo last year lead the league in steals with 189 steals at 2.3 steals. And this was Magic’s rookie year.

That 80’s team had some good defenders. They weren’t the stoppers that we’re accustomed to watching. They forced turnovers to initiate their offense, “The LA fastbreak”. Their style of defense was more of a gambling style in which it was a high risk, high reward type of philosophy. So the defense was there, just a different style.

Yeah I was a little stiff on my assessment of Kareem, but Magic wasn't the on-ball defender his steal numbers suggest. Also, high rates for steals and blocks are a side-effect of numerous possessions... beheld by teams who run and don't stop running.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Marbury, but you probably don't even care for what he has to say

His second quote is spot on spot on. Why the hell does Mike want these guys to keep chucking up three's??? Does he realize who is on his team?

These players do not fit his style, I said it in my first posts in this thread. He has one guy who can hit three's. Why are they second in the league in attempts from distance when they only have one effective three point shooter?

'He doesn’t teach defense,'' Marbury said. "He teaches offense. (Jeff) Van Gundy teaches defense. (The D'Antoni system) doesn't work in New York. Not in the East. You have to have a team that dives for balls and takes the 3 when nobody expects you to take the 3. You have to be inside the fans' minds and that's what they want. There's knowledgeable people in the arena. They're talking to you while you're shooting a jump shot.'' New York Post

Actually, Marbury sounded just like any other bitter Knicks fan disgusted by the team's 3-7 start and five-game losing streak. Marbury claims to be just that – a diehard Knicks fan — though he has fallen out of favor with most supporters. "It's just a matter of time,'' Marbury said. "That's all I got to stay about D'Antoni's situation. I don't pay attention to his coaching. It hasn't changed since he won 50 games or since all the how many games he's lost here. If he had different pieces, he's a very effective coach. But without any players that play with the realm of how he coaches the game, it will never be. "It's a matter of time,'' Marbury added. "It's a countdown now. He put a countdown on his head. Now (the fans) know we're never going to win a championship like this.'' New York Post

[CMH]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

It's Marbury, but he's speaking like a true Knicks fan. Can't disagree with him.

It's time for the "Fire Toni" chants to begin.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Melo even taking shots

On Monday at morning shootaround, I asked Melo about coach Mike D’Antoni’s offensive system in New York: “You’re up and down, fast-paced and you get extra possessions in the game,” he said. “On the flip side, I’ve been on teams where we weren’t known for our defense, and that’s not something I want to ever deal with again.”

[ehh]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

His second quote is spot on spot on. Why the hell does Mike want these guys to keep chucking up three's??? Does he realize who is on his team?

Tina Cervasio (sideline reporter) asked Phil Weber (asst coach) at halftime if it was "time to tell the guys to stop shooting threes and start going to the rim" and he replied to the effect of, "Well we're getting wide open threes and that's exactly what we want, we know our guys can hit them."

The staff is clueless. The offense is gross. We know the D has no hope this year.