If There Was No Michael Jordan

[faster]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

If there was no Jordan we might not have the individual, athletic freaks we do today. Jordan single handedly was the NBA in the 90s. He is also to blame for the selfish, lack of team play era that followed, that we are now just finally starting to get over. Everyone wanted to emulate his beautiful, individualistic, stylistic play. Everyone wanted to be like Mike and take over games. Too bad kids grew up thinking they were the man and not understanding teamwork. Even today the first thought is taking a guy to the hole and seeing what the dribble might bring almost at all costs.

If you swap Kobe and Jordan, Kobe probably has as many rings, maybe more, maybe less. Kobe is as much of a freak as Michael but Kobe's competition is far far superior.

I love when people compare shooting percentages between Jordan and Kobe. Talk to Larry Johnson, he explained the differences very well. Defenses today are actually much better (contrary to what people thing) because everyone has a 40 inch vert and is lightning quick. Jump shots today are actually harder as guys are able to close fast and jump higher to make up the difference. On top of that, the game was much faster paced with all teams over 100ppg.

Regardless, Michael was the best because he was much like Wilt or Shaq.... a freak, a man among boys. On top of that, the killer instinct, pfff... no one could stop him.

[The15thunter]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

Kobe is more physically gifted, probably a better pure scorer, etc, but I have never seen an athlete, let alone a basketball player, who elevated his game when it counted like Jordan did. The closest I've seen is Tiger Woods on the golf course.

i think jordan is/was a significantly better athlete than kobe.

[HealyMonster]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

Its a good question, and its a fair one. The only thing I can say about it is im 100% that had you seen Jordan play in his prime, you would not be asking this question. The dude was so good, it seemed sometimes, the NBA was not challenging enough for him. Is it that way for Kobe? was it that way for anyone? I dont really think so. In my opinion, you can hold Jordan up to Hall of Famers and say, yeah, Jordan is above them. If they made a hall of fame for Hall of Famers, Jordan would be the only inductee.

Another example is the fact that Im not, nor I have been a huge NBA fan during my life. Growing up I did watch basketball and if I was channel surfing and caught a Bulls game on, Id watch for like maybe 10 minutes and sure enough Id see Jordan do something insane or unrealistic. I havent gotten that from anyone else.

[Dewie12]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

If there was no Jordan we might not have the individual, athletic freaks we do today. Jordan single handedly was the NBA in the 90s. He is also to blame for the selfish, lack of team play era that followed, that we are now just finally starting to get over. Everyone wanted to emulate his beautiful, individualistic, stylistic play. Everyone wanted to be like Mike and take over games. Too bad kids grew up thinking they were the man and not understanding teamwork. Even today the first thought is taking a guy to the hole and seeing what the dribble might bring almost at all costs.

If you swap Kobe and Jordan, Kobe probably has as many rings, maybe more, maybe less. Kobe is as much of a freak as Michael but Kobe's competition is far far superior.

I love when people compare shooting percentages between Jordan and Kobe. Talk to Larry Johnson, he explained the differences very well. Defenses today are actually much better (contrary to what people thing) because everyone has a 40 inch vert and is lightning quick. Jump shots today are actually harder as guys are able to close fast and jump higher to make up the difference. On top of that, the game was much faster paced with all teams over 100ppg.

Regardless, Michael was the best because he was much like Wilt or Shaq.... a freak, a man among boys. On top of that, the killer instinct, pfff... no one could stop him.

Great post man.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

If there was no Jordan, there wouldnt be teams in Miami, Orlando, Minnesota, Toronto, Memphis (Which would probably be a good thing).

Jordan is different.

Michael Jordan is one of the most famous people in the entire world.

Kobe Bryant doesnt have anything approaching that type of mass appeal.

Jordan understood branding and image unlike any athlete, before or since.

[Landlordos7]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

Kobe is more physically gifted...

Not even close. Athletically speaking, Kobe has always been a poor man's Michael. Still a freak in his own right, sure, but not a "dunking with my eyes looking down at the rim" kind of freak.

The dude was so good, it seemed sometimes, the NBA was not challenging enough for him. Is it that way for Kobe?

When both were at their prime, the answer to both is "yes". Kobe's 81 is literally, still, the most dominant individual sports performance (if you don't want to compare across the board, let's just say basketball) in decades. That's not my opinion either, that's the opinion of several people who's career is based around the NBA.


Another thing, even though Kobe is, essentially, Jordan reincarnate, Kobe's game is not entirely 100% Jordan's. Whoever posted about Kobe's game not being his own is entirely right, he steals things from all of the greats, which is what greats do. The best players and coaches are the best thieves, and Kobe is a damn good thief, stealing from all SORTS of players over the years.

I'll always look more highly on Kobe than on Michael. Michael was the better basketball player, better icon, whatever, but he almost single-handedly invented the mindset that there is an i in team, and shaped the way the current NBA looks in such a dramatic way, but I don't think it was a positive shape. Kobe is similar in this regard, but to me, the difference is that Kobe wants to be the best individual player in history, because that's the easiest way to achieve greatness, not because he desires to be the man or however you would explain it. The reason Kobe struggled being a good teammate years ago was because he was so obsessed with greatness, that he felt his scrub teammates did not deserve to be a part of it, nor were they worthy or capable of it.

[Bumi]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

The thing that sets Jordan apart from every one else imo is his ability to elevate his game when everyone else was running on empty. I remember in the late 1980's Isaiah Thomas saying that he hated playing Jordan because Jordan was like everyone else for 45 minutes, and then in the last 3 minutes while you were gassed and tired he found another gear and beat you.

Kobe is more physically gifted, probably a better pure scorer, etc, but I have never seen an athlete, let alone a basketball player, who elevated his game when it counted like Jordan did. The closest I've seen is Tiger Woods on the golf course.

Bottom line, if given the choice between the two I'd take Jordan every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

No on both accounts. Especially the portion about Kobe being more physically gifted.

[Evan_OS]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

If there was no michael jordan, there would definitely be a lot less 100+ dollar shoe purchases.

This is true.

On topic: If there was no Jordan, I'd say Magic Johnson. A lot of other players could be in the discussion though. Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, etc.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

Kobe is more physically gifted

Kobe was certainly NOT more physically gifted than Jordan. 80's Jordan was an athletic freak, even by today's standards.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

If you swap Kobe and Jordan, Kobe probably has as many rings, maybe more, maybe less.

This assumes that simply sticking two great players together is a guarantee of success. There's such a thing as chemistry. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen complimented each other about as well as any two players in NBA history. Simply swapping Jordan for Kobe doesn't necessarily mean he achieves that same balance and harmony with Pippen that Jordan did.

Defenses today are actually much better (contrary to what people thing) because everyone has a 40 inch vert and is lightning quick. Jump shots today are actually harder as guys are able to close fast and jump higher to make up the difference.

This assumes of course, that merely jumping high and being quick is the most important attributes of a great defender. Which would contradict the fact that 3 of the best perimeter defenders in recent memory, Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest, have neither of those attributes.

Kobe's 81 is literally, still, the most dominant individual sports performance (if you don't want to compare across the board, let's just say basketball) in decades. That's not my opinion either, that's the opinion of several people who's career is based around the NBA.

That's only if you look at the raw numbers, without looking at the context of the situation. Kobe's 81, while mightily impressive by any means, was against one of the worst teams in the league that year. My grandma could have dropped 30 on that Raptors squad. I'm much more impressed by Jordan's 63, at 23 years old, against the 86 champion Celtics, or Jordan's 69 point, 18 rebound, 7 assists, 4 steals performance against the Cavs in 1990. So yeah, 81 is higher than 69 or 63. But more impressive given the circumstances and the competition? Not necessarily.

My humble opinion in bold.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

1)the difference is that Kobe wants to be the best individual player in history, because that's the easiest way to achieve greatness

2)not because he desires to be the man or however you would explain it.

3)The reason Kobe struggled being a good teammate years ago was because he was so obsessed with greatness, that he felt his scrub teammates did not deserve to be a part of it, nor were they worthy or capable of it.

1)So you're saying that Jordan didn't want to be the best player in history? What do you think drove me every night then?

2)So you're saying that Kobe doesn't desire to be the man? Wasn't the whole Shaq-Kobe feud based on who was the 'man' on the team? At that stage, a 28 year old Shaq should have been, by all conventional basketball logic the most dominating player should take the lead, and everyone feed off him.

3) So Kobe didn't think his scrub teammates were worthy of greatness, so was a poor teammate. Would you consider this an admirable trait? Jordan was surrounded by total scrubs before Pippen and Grant emerged, and he never once publicly threw them under the bus( like Kobe bitching about Bynum getting traded in the parking lot back in 2007), or demanded to be traded. He played his *** off for years, doing the best he could with what he had, then Pippen and Grant came onboard, Phil came in as coach, at the rest is history. As much as I like Kobe, he's never won a single title without the help of a dominant offensive big man. Jordan won 6 titles without that, in an era where many of the all-time great centers were in their prime. How hard that feat is, cannot be stated enough.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

Has everyone forgotten a guy named Hakeem Olajuwon?

The guy was the best player in the league, in between Jordan's first retirement.


Anyway, the Kobe-Jordan thing has been to death..but something I never have heard mentioned is...

Could you imagine what Jordan would be doing with today's rules and officiating?

The man might average 20 a game, from the foul line alone.

Jordan was shooting 50% for his career from the floor, in a area where you could hand check, elbow check, clutch, and grab.

The NBA was a FAR more physical league in the mid-late 90's then Stern's Euro-fied league of today.

Jordan had the best mid range game in the sport, and a better post game .then the majorityof Centers and Power Forwads.

[faster]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

No... Jordan did not have the best mid-range shot for many MANY years of his career. He developed that later in his career. And though the rules are different now, there was no zone then either. Regardless, I think the gap in athleticism between Jordan and everyone else is the biggest reason for his success (I'm not discounting his drive and determination, or anything else, but it was shocking how much ahead of his time he was) that would close the gap in today's game.

[metscolts]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

why is this even a discussion

[lebronmvp09]

Re: If There Was No Michael Jordan

okay everybody is saying jordan was so much better than everybody else he played with and that makes him great,does that mean if kobe was in that era instead he would be the greatest? And lets not even bring up the chamberlain era, 'cause he was obviously lightyears ahead of everybody else when he played. What if lebron played in jordans era?