2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

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  • Eman5805
    MVP
    • Mar 2009
    • 3545

    #421
    Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

    All I know is that if Derrick Rose wins it this year, Chris Paul got the SHAFT in 2008. I know they say you aren't supposed to compare across years, but c'mon...

    DR 2011 - 25ppg-8apg-4rpg-1stl-3.4to

    CP 2008 - 23ppg-11apg-5.5 rpg-2.7stl-2.9to

    Comment

    • TheWorldIsYours
      Rookie
      • May 2010
      • 363

      #422
      Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

      Originally posted by Eman5805
      All I know is that if Derrick Rose wins it this year, Chris Paul got the SHAFT in 2008. I know they say you aren't supposed to compare across years, but c'mon...

      DR 2011 - 25ppg-8apg-4rpg-1stl-3.4to

      CP 2008 - 23ppg-11apg-5.5 rpg-2.7stl-2.9to
      I agree with you on that.

      But come on guys Lebron over Rose at this point? He is still putting up the crazy stats but at this point 09/10 Cleveland is better than 10/11 Miami and that's with two all stars on the team.

      Most Valuable Player belongs to D-Rose with Howard right their and Lebron in third. Even if Miami wins all their games from now until the end of the season I dont think Lebron deserves it.

      Only way Lebron wins if he and Wade are CO-MVPS and I wouldnt argue with that. But him by himself? NO

      Comment

      • PrettyT11
        MVP
        • Jul 2008
        • 3220

        #423
        Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

        Man that Lowry article is complete trash and was a waste of my time. First is was based off of one stat by some nerd that isn't even the used advance stat for that purporse. Trying to put Lowry on the same level as Rose is just horrible. Lowry isn't even close to being the best player on his team and if we go by the stats or advanced stats the gap is wider. Kevin Martin has the far better PER and TS% and has the higher real advanced stat for win shares in OWS, WS, and WS/48.

        As far as the comparison to Rose goes Rose has more offensive win shares than Lowry has total win shares. So I don't know how that article can even begin to wonder if Lowry can do the same thing for the Bulls if they switched roles. The facts are Rose has the higher FG percentage and free throw percentage and shoots twice as many free throws as Lowry (something the article tried to say was a strength of Lowry's). If we just looked at the advanced stats Rose is so much better pretty much across the board there is no way they are even close to being comparable even defensively.

        I know there is some folks not wanting to see Rose win it by please let's not go as far as to say some first time starter(who got the job because of injury) and slighly above average at best PG like Lowry is close to being on the same level as Rose.
        Last edited by PrettyT11; 03-24-2011, 02:24 PM.

        Comment

        • da ThRONe
          Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
          • Mar 2009
          • 8528

          #424
          Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

          Originally posted by Eman5805
          All I know is that if Derrick Rose wins it this year, Chris Paul got the SHAFT in 2008. I know they say you aren't supposed to compare across years, but c'mon...

          DR 2011 - 25ppg-8apg-4rpg-1stl-3.4to

          CP 2008 - 23ppg-11apg-5.5 rpg-2.7stl-2.9to
          1st we all know CP3 got raped that year. Another reason I hate Kobe.

          I'm trying not to dislike Rose, but he is going to win and that will be a tough pill to shallow.
          You looking at the Chair MAN!

          Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

          Comment

          • Altimus
            Chelsea, Assemble!
            • Nov 2004
            • 27283

            #425
            Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

            Originally posted by ChaseB
            I would say a lot of it has to do with Chicago's amazing defense and rebounding this year. I mean I know people are recognizing these things about Chitown, but the team is downright nasty on defense. Noah and Asik up the gut is probably the best combo in the league, and then you have a bunch of really athletic swing players that get at it. Rose has improved on the defensive end as well.

            And then, yeah, Rose is playing significantly better this year on offense as well, no argument there. Let me be clear that I am in no way trying to say Rose has not stepped his game up this year.



            I'm not stopping you from dismissing an entire portion of the game if you really want, but it doesn't really help your cause when you put your fingers in your ears and scream LOUD NOISES. I'd say it's more a mindset than anything else, and whether or not you can incorporate some new ways to look at things on top of the old ones.

            And it's not like I'm saying Rose isn't really good, just that Dwight is the MVP and Kyle Lowry is having a really awesome year (and an incredibly awesome second half that has propelled the Rockets). I think that is what is being lost here. I'm simply trying to explain why Dwight is the right choice, especially if you want to look at it from a new school and old school way of thinking.
            I don't think I'm ignoring any facts or statistics. Your opinion is your opinion, however, I don't see how Lowry belongs anywhere near this conversation. If we're going to play this game then we might as well bring a quarter of the league in this conversation.

            Comment

            • ChaseB
              #BringBackFaceuary
              • Oct 2003
              • 9844

              #426
              Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

              Originally posted by Altimus
              I don't think I'm ignoring any facts or statistics. Your opinion is your opinion, however, I don't see how Lowry belongs anywhere near this conversation. If we're going to play this game then we might as well bring a quarter of the league in this conversation.
              That article was just meant to be used for some perspective, not to put Lowry on DRose's level.
              I won't ask for Christmas or birthday gifts if you subscribe to the Operation Sports Newsletter (Not Just Another Roster Update). I write it, and it hits your inbox every Friday morning (for freeeeeee). We also have an official OS Discord you can now join.

              Comment

              • jeebs9
                Fear is the Unknown
                • Oct 2008
                • 47568

                #427
                Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                Originally posted by Eman5805
                All I know is that if Derrick Rose wins it this year, Chris Paul got the SHAFT in 2008. I know they say you aren't supposed to compare across years, but c'mon...

                DR 2011 - 25ppg-8apg-4rpg-1stl-3.4to

                CP 2008 - 23ppg-11apg-5.5 rpg-2.7stl-2.9to
                I can kind of agree there lol. That's the year Kobe won right? He (CP3) lost that last game in LA. And the Lakers took over first place in the West. And Kobe locked up the MVP.

                I mean the samething could happen this year. Heat come out of no where and take over first place. Then LeBron would win.

                But this is a general question that came to mind the other day. How many player of the weeks or months has Derrick Rose won this year. I'm just asking because I can't that stat. Anyone?
                Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                Comment

                • ex carrabba fan
                  I'll thank him for you
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 32744

                  #428
                  Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                  Originally posted by Eman5805
                  All I know is that if Derrick Rose wins it this year, Chris Paul got the SHAFT in 2008. I know they say you aren't supposed to compare across years, but c'mon...

                  DR 2011 - 25ppg-8apg-4rpg-1stl-3.4to

                  CP 2008 - 23ppg-11apg-5.5 rpg-2.7stl-2.9to
                  Why would you even do that to yourself? LeBron and Kobe's seasons from that year trump Rose's this year. So just stop. You Hornet fans and your glasses are too much sometimes.
                  Originally posted by da ThRONe
                  1st we all know CP3 got raped that year. Another reason I hate Kobe.

                  I'm trying not to dislike Rose, but he is going to win and that will be a tough pill to shallow.
                  No, you Hornet fans and Kobe haters all believe that. Everyone else reasonable knows that CP3, LeBron or Kobe all equally deserved it. Saying anyone got raped makes you look biased.

                  Comparing two completely different seasons is beyond idiotic.

                  Comment

                  • Jistic
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 16405

                    #429
                    Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                    Originally posted by Eman5805
                    All I know is that if Derrick Rose wins it this year, Chris Paul got the SHAFT in 2008. I know they say you aren't supposed to compare across years, but c'mon...

                    DR 2011 - 25ppg-8apg-4rpg-1stl-3.4to

                    CP 2008 - 23ppg-11apg-5.5 rpg-2.7stl-2.9to
                    Bill Simmons agrees with you.
                    PSN: JISTIC_OS
                    XBOX LIVE: JISTIC

                    Comment

                    • ChaseB
                      #BringBackFaceuary
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 9844

                      #430
                      Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                      Originally posted by PrettyT11
                      Man that Lowry article is complete trash and was a waste of my time. First is was based off of one stat by some nerd that isn't even the used advance stat for that purporse. Trying to put Lowry on the same level as Rose is just horrible. Lowry isn't even close to being the best player on his team and if we go by the stats or advanced stats the gap is wider. Kevin Martin has the far better PER and TS% and has the higher real advanced stat for win shares in OWS, WS, and WS/48.

                      As far as the comparison to Rose goes Rose has more offensive win shares than Lowry has total win shares. So I don't know how that article can even begin to wonder if Lowry can do the same thing for the Bulls if they switched roles. The facts are Rose has the higher FG percentage and free throw percentage and shoots twice as many free throws as Lowry (something the article tried to say was a strength of Lowry's). If we just looked at the advanced stats Rose is so much better pretty much across the board there is no way they are even close to being comparable even defensively.
                      WP48 is used quite a bit. That along with WS48 both have positives and negatives, and the best bet is usually to take both into account and fall somewhere between them I think.

                      The Lowry and Rose numbers are close just because Lowry does not turn the ball over as much, rebounds better, creates more turnovers and shoots better from deep. Again, though, not really trying to put Lowry in the conversation, just want to make it clear that I think Dwight is hands-down the guy.
                      I won't ask for Christmas or birthday gifts if you subscribe to the Operation Sports Newsletter (Not Just Another Roster Update). I write it, and it hits your inbox every Friday morning (for freeeeeee). We also have an official OS Discord you can now join.

                      Comment

                      • da ThRONe
                        Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 8528

                        #431
                        Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                        Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                        Why would you even do that to yourself? LeBron and Kobe's seasons from that year trump Rose's this year. So just stop. You Hornet fans and your glasses are too much sometimes.

                        No, you Hornet fans and Kobe haters all believe that. Everyone else reasonable knows that CP3, LeBron or Kobe all equally deserved it. Saying anyone got raped makes you look biased.

                        Comparing two completely different seasons is beyond idiotic.
                        No one person means more to their team than CP3(other than LeBron to the Cavs). The 08-09 season Chris had the stats and wins he was clearly the MVP. The Lakers were still a playoff team without Kobe. The Hornets without Paul is what the Cavs are this season.
                        You looking at the Chair MAN!

                        Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                        Comment

                        • ex carrabba fan
                          I'll thank him for you
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 32744

                          #432
                          Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                          So you penalize a team for being "good". Whatever floats your boat. Them winning the amount of games they did that year.. and what type of year Kobe had.. I'd say that validates the award.

                          If you think someone got raped, that's too funny.

                          CP3 did have a superior year to what Rose is doing this year that's not a debate. But don't try to compare across years when every season is much too different and unique.

                          Comment

                          • da ThRONe
                            Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 8528

                            #433
                            Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                            Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                            So you penalize a team for being "good". Whatever floats your boat. Them winning the amount of games they did that year.. and what type of year Kobe had.. I'd say that validates the award.

                            If you think someone got raped, that's too funny.

                            CP3 did have a superior year to what Rose is doing this year that's not a debate. But don't try to compare across years when every season is much too different and unique.
                            Whether you consider it taking away from Kobe or adding to Paul I think we can all agree its more impressive leading a below average team to the 2nd spot then a team good enough to be a mid playoffs team to the 1seed.
                            You looking at the Chair MAN!

                            Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                            Comment

                            • ex carrabba fan
                              I'll thank him for you
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 32744

                              #434
                              Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

                              Originally posted by da ThRONe
                              Whether you consider it taking away from Kobe or adding to Paul I think we can all agree its more impressive leading a below average team to the 2th spot then a team good enough to be a mid playoffs team to the 1seed.
                              Whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees with that, once again, to say that CP3 got raped is comedy.

                              And for the record, no what CP3 did wasn't really that much more impressive than what Kobe did that year. CP3 could have won and I wouldn't have said a word, but overall 3 guys could have won that year.

                              Comment

                              • jeebs9
                                Fear is the Unknown
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 47568

                                #435
                                Its all about your method of choosing the MVP. Kevin Durant could be in the same argument too (last year). He had the lead going into the last month. His team went from 3rd seed to 8th in one week (exactly 3 games I think). And there went his MVP. Best team best player.

                                Like I said before, if the Bulls were to drop to the third seed. Or the Heat got a higher seed than them. Lebron would win. And Rose would be like CP3 and Durant

                                Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
                                Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                                Comment

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