The worst pick up players.

[VDusen04]

Re: The worst pick up players.

Can't say I have ever seen this in a pick up game. Regardless, after the 1st time, I would have warned him to not do it again. When I play against some people that do 'bush' league stuff like that or undercutting I let them know about it. There is no place in any game for stuff like that. I would either play on or just demand the point/(s). I'd say you handled it pretty though.

Word. I actually let the first one slide. I have a personal zero tolerance policy on undercutting but if some random person were to wrap me up before I takeoff one random time in a very specific instance, I'm not going to be pumped about it, but I brush it off and chalk it up as them understanding it's something they're not going to be able to do every time I break out into the open floor. As such, the 2nd offense in a short period of time drew my ire and they were completely unwilling to acknowledge it wasn't a play worthy of making in a pickup game. We had ten folks at the court so it's not as if he was fighting to stay on the floor.

[cubsball899]

Re: The worst pick up players.

i see/do that kinda stuff on game point sometimes. i play with a pretty tight group though and everyone knows eachother. if its gonna be a easy layup i'll wrap you up and make you earn it in the halfcourt if its game point.

also i'm a big guy and sometimes i get the ball under the rim and i just get wrapped up lol.


question: if i am fouled on a jumpshot, and i call foul but the shot goes in, are you gonna make me check up because i called foul, or are you gonna gimme the basket? i want the basket becaus you shouldn't be rewarded for bad defense.

[Nathan_OS]

Re: The worst pick up players.

you call foul, you don't get the basket.

[KSOR24]

Re: The worst pick up players.

i see/do that kinda stuff on game point sometimes. i play with a pretty tight group though and everyone knows eachother. if its gonna be a easy layup i'll wrap you up and make you earn it in the halfcourt if its game point.

also i'm a big guy and sometimes i get the ball under the rim and i just get wrapped up lol.


question: if i am fouled on a jumpshot, and i call foul but the shot goes in, are you gonna make me check up because i called foul, or are you gonna gimme the basket? i want the basket becaus you shouldn't be rewarded for bad defense.

I think it should count, because you made the shot despite being fouled.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The worst pick up players.

you call foul, you don't get the basket.

This is how we play here, if you call foul posession is dead no matter what

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The worst pick up players.

question: if i am fouled on a jumpshot, and i call foul but the shot goes in, are you gonna make me check up because i called foul, or are you gonna gimme the basket? i want the basket becaus you shouldn't be rewarded for bad defense.

Good question. I've always looked at it like this:

-If I score but you foul me and you expect me to call it but I don't, then I'm taking the point, especially if it's a foul that I don't consider too rough of a foul. Just because you fouled me and I never called it, doesn't mean we take the ball back up top and run it again, especially if it's for the game.

-Or if it's a case where I have the ball and I'm going up for a basket and you completely grab/hold me or whatever, then yeah I'M going to call it.

[VDusen04]

Re: The worst pick up players.

I think it should count, because you made the shot despite being fouled.

I am in this group. I've played in areas where calling a foul nullifies a basket and while I observed that rule in those areas, I never understood it. I'm thinking the lone reasoning is that it theoretically assists with game flow by discouraging foul calls. However, I haven't noticed a great difference in this regard. In fact, calling fouls and nullifying baskets on what should be And-1's at times reduced the flow, since play was stopping unnecessarily.

Essentially, I agree with cubs. Why should I be punished for getting fouled by streetball standards, stating as such, and still making the shot? In any other form of basketball, the bucket would count and there'd be a free throw forthcoming. Yet, in some streetball, the offense doesn't even get the original bucket? How does that make sense?

There's been a number of instances in the "no And-1" form of basketball where I've attacked the rim, gotten absolutely rocked (and hence calling a foul) while still eventually finishing my shot, which just led to me cursing myself for calling a foul in the first place. But what am I supposed to do? Never call fouls? No matter what? So everytime I attack the rim the defense has free will to drop me to the floor because I never want to risk having a made shot taken away? That seems so counter-intuitive to how basketball is typically supposed to work.

i see/do that kinda stuff on game point sometimes. i play with a pretty tight group though and everyone knows eachother. if its gonna be a easy layup i'll wrap you up and make you earn it in the halfcourt if its game point.

also i'm a big guy and sometimes i get the ball under the rim and i just get wrapped up lol.

Yup, I totally understand both of those instances. I've been there. On game point, I know things escalate a little bit. And I know if someone has a clean look under the rim, they'll probably get wrapped up at that point in time. Both sides tend to understand what's at stake during game point and while folks may get wrapped up sometimes, it's almost never done maliciously.

I think those scenarios vary greatly from standing still, waiting for a player to sprint past and bear hugging them on the fly-by, twice in three possessions, nowhere near game point.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: The worst pick up players.

The reasoning for the play being dead if you call foul is because you get the douchebags who wait to see if they miss their shot before calling a foul.

[VDusen04]

Re: The worst pick up players.

The reasoning for the play being dead if you call foul is because you get the douchebags who wait to see if they miss their shot before calling a foul.

Wouldn't disallowing And-1's actually create more of those late calls? I feel like more unclassy people would want to hold off on foul calls in case their shots go in, only to call the foul after they realized they missed.

Meanwhile, if And-1's are included, a person would have no reason to wait and see if the shot went in, a foul would be a foul, and if the shot went in, congratulations - the bucket counts - just like it would in any other walk of basketball.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: The worst pick up players.

Wouldn't disallowing And-1's actually create more of those late calls? I feel like more unclassy people would want to hold off on foul calls in case their shots go in, only to call the foul after they realized they missed.

Meanwhile, if And-1's are included, a person would have no reason to wait and see if the shot went in, a foul would be a foul, and if the shot went in, congratulations - the bucket counts - just like it would in any other walk of basketball.

Yes...Sometimes. Where I play here in the unwritten rule book of pickup basketball, you call your own fouls and there's a difference between calling a foul and calling and-1. If you call and-1 and make the shot, it counts, but you miss it, you don't get the ball (i know, makes no sense at all). And if you call a foul and make the shot, the shot doesn't count.

But I've seen many an argument break out over the And-1 rule so it's almost not worth it because if you try to argue it, there's at least 7 people that'll argue against you. I've seen people stop the game and literally argue for 15 minutes about it.

[VDusen04]

Re: The worst pick up players.

Yes...Sometimes. Where I play here in the unwritten rule book of pickup basketball, you call your own fouls and there's a difference between calling a foul and calling and-1. If you call and-1 and make the shot, it counts, but you miss it, you don't get the ball (i know, makes no sense at all). And if you call a foul and make the shot, the shot doesn't count.

But I've seen many an argument break out over the And-1 rule so it's almost not worth it because if you try to argue it, there's at least 7 people that'll argue against you. I've seen people stop the game and literally argue for 15 minutes about it.

Yep, there's so many different interpretations. That's why I figure logic should be the best way to go. It's not as if I'm calling a foul, then continuing to dribble while everyone has stopped playing, ultimately laying the ball in uncontested. Rather, I'm calling a foul as it's happening, in the middle of my shot. I'm going to try my best to make a shot, regardless of whether I'm fouled. I can't predict the future though, so why should I have to guess mid-shot whether I should call a foul or not? Nullifying an And-1 is a complete overcomplication. There's no reason for it.

In fact, the more I think about this concept, the more frustrated I become. How has it somehow become acceptable on some courts to vilify an offensive player who just finished scoring while being fouled and expects to have his shot count, like it would in any other game? How is that somehow his fault? And why wouldn't he be rewarded for earning a tough basket despite being fouled?

Regarding your area's style of differentiating between calling "foul" or "And-1", I'm not sure I like that either. If I call "foul" during a shot, a potential And-1 should be insinuated. I shouldn't have to state a specific phrase explaining what I'm trying to do. I'm not really thinking about how I say "foul", I'm just playing basketball. If I drive and I'm hit, I might say, "Got one", "Hold up", "Foul", or any other phrase that comes to mind at the time that gets my point across. And if I call it while I'm shooting, again, I still don't see why it'd make sense to nullify my work.

To be completely forthcoming, I have in fact gone the route in the "No And-1" games of simply refusing to call fouls, in hopes of not nullifying any of my baskets. What tends to happen there is defenses just tend to hit harder and harder (not dirty, just more careless about avoiding contact) as they realize there will be no repercussions for fouling me on shots. Then at some point I'll get hit relatively hard on a shot (again with no ill-will, just an obvious foul) but I won't call it because I'm trying to get the And-1, then people assume I'm going to call it so they half stop playing, and half kinda continue playing, at which point the game has to stop and we have to figure out what'd just happened and then we spend five minutes trying to figure out if I have to call a foul firsthand or if it can be insinuated or if my team should retain possession or if we should just check ball at the other end ... it's often messier than just playing real basketball with And-1's.

Not having And-1's in basketball is like playing flag football and disallowing a touchdown because a receiver was interfered with prior to making the catch.

[cubsball899]

Re: The worst pick up players.

Yes...Sometimes. Where I play here in the unwritten rule book of pickup basketball, you call your own fouls and there's a difference between calling a foul and calling and-1. If you call and-1 and make the shot, it counts, but you miss it, you don't get the ball (i know, makes no sense at all). And if you call a foul and make the shot, the shot doesn't count.

But I've seen many an argument break out over the And-1 rule so it's almost not worth it because if you try to argue it, there's at least 7 people that'll argue against you. I've seen people stop the game and literally argue for 15 minutes about it.

i'm very familiar with the foul/and-1 call and i think its very stupid lol. the situation that spurred this discussion was actually a couple months ago i shot a jumpshot, got hit on the wrist (i very rarely call fouls, but there was a lot of talking that game so i was going to let him know he fouled me, plus, getting hit on the wrist usually has a strong effect on the shot) i called 'foul' as soon as i was touched, released the ball, and knew right away it was going in and then i said 'and-1'

anyways just seems stupid to me to reward the defense for not being able to legally defend..

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: The worst pick up players.

i'm very familiar with the foul/and-1 call and i think its very stupid lol. the situation that spurred this discussion was actually a couple months ago i shot a jumpshot, got hit on the wrist (i very rarely call fouls, but there was a lot of talking that game so i was going to let him know he fouled me, plus, getting hit on the wrist usually has a strong effect on the shot) i called 'foul' as soon as i was touched, released the ball, and knew right away it was going in and then i said 'and-1'

anyways just seems stupid to me to reward the defense for not being able to legally defend..

Agreed. I was playing the other day and came down, pulled up and hit a 3 in this kid's face. Next possession, pulled up for 3 on the fast break and basically got tackled to the ground just after I released it and I was like "And oneeeeeee" and swished it and they refused to count the basket because I called an and one. Would have given us the lead too so I was pretty pissed but one of my teammates was like "It's alright dude, just hit another one to shut them up". So when they checked back up, I started out under the hoop and came running off a screen, caught the pass and hit another 3. Came down and hit a mid-range jumper the next possession to win the game. The other team was none too pleased lol.

[Nathan_OS]

Re: The worst pick up players.

Nice.

A "and one" should not be a foul call.

I think it should be when you yell "ball, foul, check" etc...

[VDusen04]

Re: The worst pick up players.

Nice.

A "and one" should not be a foul call.

I think it should be when you yell "ball, foul, check" etc...

I feel saying "And-1" but not having it be a foul call only makes things more confusing in the way you described, since "And-1" by definition is actually saying, "Count the basket, plus one more shot due to a foul that was committed." Anytime I've been around people who say "And-1" on shots they're fouled on but don't make, mass confusion arises because everyone assumes "And-1" means foul but the player will sometimes deny the foul and insist we play on, despite his calling it in the first place, which again leads to the dreaded "half of the players keep playing, but half stop, leading to discussion and ultimately a slow check at the other end" scenario.

I try to keep it as simple as possible. If someone calls foul (or check, or stop, or hold up, or And-1), it's a foul. If they call it while shooting and it goes in, we count it. Simple, effective, and in the name of real basketball.