Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

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  • wwharton
    *ll St*r
    • Aug 2002
    • 26949

    #91
    Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

    Originally posted by 23
    ...i will say this

    You know who shouldnt be there anymore, run their course

    like the little stat about mr crawford yesterday...they wont even check into it. Bavetta is another... no way he should be reffing the finals anymore, especially even after another ref ranted on him about it in the media

    Everybody cant be wrong from coaches to GMs to owners to players to fans..and the only ones who make out like bandits are the refs...

    I just dont agree with that, and I wasnt saying Dice was calling me a conspiracy theorist personally, ive seen the term thrown around in here in general
    That's fair enough. I can agree with that.

    Originally posted by OSUFan_88
    I believe they could make it more specific and make it more physical at the same time. Getting rid of a touch foul would be the one thing.

    Perhaps I am speaking out of school when I say the variables should be completely taken out of the refs hands, but then we should get some new refs. For being professional referees, some of these dudes *and one woman...* really suck at their job.

    However, to give up and say "this is the way things will be and you cannot change it" is admitting that the game of basketball is flawed, which I will not and cannot accept.
    It really can't work in that way. Of course that's my opinion bc we can't know for sure without trying, but what if a "touch" foul effects a play? Barely touching an elbow can throw off a shot or pass. Barely going over someone's back can give a bigger guy an unfair advantage. As for replacing them, I've just had too much personal experience with referees on college, high school and club levels and have called a few games on my own. It's harder than some might think, and I don't see any performing at a high level anywhere to just say these guys can be replaced. I agree with fishing out a few known (or suspected) bad seeds, but for the ones that are just "bad at their job" we may just have to accept that they are the best of the bad. If we're talking about rewriting the rule book (and it would literally be rewriting the book), that's a different discussion but if we're just focused on the people enforcing it, I'm not sure it can get much better.

    I don't think the game is flawed because no sport is perfect. In football you just have to accept that holding happens but won't be called on every play. In baseball you have to accept that the strike zone is different from ump to ump. In hockey, there are judgement calls similar to the NBA. There is a bit of accepting it as part of the game that we have to do. I think this discussion is more about how much of that is acceptable.

    Originally posted by bakan723
    I think a foul should be a foul. And it should be called be the letter of the book. This way there's no inconsistency's ( or alot fewer )

    Sure at first you would have a crapload of free throws, but the players would learn to adjust over time.
    Players are too fast and strong today. Adjusting would mean moving out of the way in many cases. And even then, some players could alter their path into defenders to create calls. They do that already, it would just be increased. People complain about the hand check rule and it's not even called as much as it could be. Honestly, I don't think many of us would enjoy basketball to the letter of the book (myself included). It's an art form that flows and allows for a lot of creativity. It would become stiffer with less momentum, and we wouldn't be able to get around more trips to the foul line (and more star players fouling out).

    Comment

    • wwharton
      *ll St*r
      • Aug 2002
      • 26949

      #92
      Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

      Originally posted by Dice
      OK. I was reading the post and saw my name being thrown as anti-discussion.

      wwharton was right, I wasn't trying to say that your we're a conspiracy theorist. I just wanted you to clarify if the problem of the refs was just the refs being bad at their jobs or is it a result of some larger purpose. And I whole-heartily agree with you on getting rid of these bad refs who continue to plague the league year after year. Dick Bavetta has been officiating NBA games since the 70's. And he for all the years he's been an official has been at the bottom of performance evaluation since he started. Now Bavetta was around during the Larry O'Brien days. And O'Brien continued to keep him around despite the fact that he was always evaluated low. As when Stern got there in 84, the same mess carried on. So for some reason or another, the NBA itself has kept this practice for years.

      Now I think we have a disconnect on what type of problem the NBA has. NOW from what I'm gathering, you believe that the NBA likes to keep the sacred cows of referees from harms way, despite how bad they are. And I agree. Where I disagree is the notion of the NBA telling the refs that we need 'Team A' and 'Team B' in the NBA Finals. That's where you loose me.

      That's all. And if you feel it's anti-discussion then I'll back off.
      I agree with this too... by the way, I think others are losing you on that last point (where the conspiracy theory... theory came from I'm guessing).

      Comment

      • The 24th Letter
        ERA
        • Oct 2007
        • 39373

        #93
        Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

        Originally posted by Dice
        Now I think we have a disconnect on what type of problem the NBA has. NOW from what I'm gathering, you believe that the NBA likes to keep the sacred cows of referees from harms way, despite how bad they are. And I agree. Where I disagree is the notion of the NBA telling the refs that we need 'Team A' and 'Team B' in the NBA Finals. That's where you loose me.

        That's all. And if you feel it's anti-discussion then I'll back off.
        This.

        I bring up our replacement refs short stint again. Many here were excited about the prospect of the new refs...and I havent heard anyone talk aboutthe incident since. There were more foul calls than ever. It was painful to watch..

        "New blood" isnt going to solve anything IMO. Its some of the rules themselves that need tweaking.

        Even so, with brand new refs, new commish, whatever you want to do: there will be missed calls, BS calls, inconsistent calls, calls that would make you think the ref wants a certain team to win.....thats the game of basketball. Its NEVER been black and white, and I dont want it to be.

        Comment

        • 23
          yellow
          • Sep 2002
          • 66469

          #94
          Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

          Originally posted by Dice
          OK. I was reading the post and saw my name being thrown as anti-discussion.

          wwharton was right, I wasn't trying to say that your we're a conspiracy theorist. I just wanted you to clarify if the problem of the refs was just the refs being bad at their jobs or is it a result of some larger purpose. And I whole-heartily agree with you on getting rid of these bad refs who continue to plague the league year after year. Dick Bavetta has been officiating NBA games since the 70's. And he for all the years he's been an official has been at the bottom of performance evaluation since he started. Now Bavetta was around during the Larry O'Brien days. And O'Brien continued to keep him around despite the fact that he was always evaluated low. As when Stern got there in 84, the same mess carried on. So for some reason or another, the NBA itself has kept this practice for years.

          Now I think we have a disconnect on what type of problem the NBA has. NOW from what I'm gathering, you believe that the NBA likes to keep the sacred cows of referees from harms way, despite how bad they are. And I agree. Where I disagree is the notion of the NBA telling the refs that we need 'Team A' and 'Team B' in the NBA Finals. That's where you loose me.

          That's all. And if you feel it's anti-discussion then I'll back off.

          Dice I never made that claim, but I do believe Stern would rather have a certain teams be there because of the money factor

          I think he knew the refs screwed the Sac Kings out of that playoff game intentionally and not only did he not say anything about it but he never did anything about it.

          The same as I dont believe id ever see a team like the wolves get a gift player in a trade for their trash like another big market team did.

          I do think the nature could be changed, they did it once before, took out illegal defense mostly in favor of zone, took hand checking away, etc...

          Point is, yep it might be a mess initially, but they created it anyway. The flopping is a direct result of the silly touch foul on the perimeter rule.

          Comment

          • 23
            yellow
            • Sep 2002
            • 66469

            #95
            Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

            Was that JR Smith then Nene blocking sequence human error?

            Comment

            • The 24th Letter
              ERA
              • Oct 2007
              • 39373

              #96
              Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

              Originally posted by 23
              Was that JR Smith then Nene blocking sequence human error?
              posts like this fuel those "conspiracy" posts you dont like....

              im just saying...

              we can nitpick like that all game..

              Comment

              • 23
                yellow
                • Sep 2002
                • 66469

                #97
                Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

                Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                posts like this fuel those "conspiracy" posts you dont like....

                im just saying...

                we can nitpick like that all game..
                So yes or no?

                Comment

                • The 24th Letter
                  ERA
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 39373

                  #98
                  Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

                  no, Stern wants OKC to win

                  Comment

                  • 23
                    yellow
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 66469

                    #99
                    Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

                    Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                    no, Stern wants OKC to win
                    Wouldn't know myself, maybe you do

                    Comment

                    • The 24th Letter
                      ERA
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 39373

                      #100
                      Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

                      hey, im sure theres a theory on it somewhere

                      LOL, im not trying to be combative, just pissed about this Spurs game

                      ill bow out

                      Comment

                      • 23
                        yellow
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 66469

                        #101
                        Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

                        Shoudn't be, it was just a question, and a legit one

                        Same scenario about 5 seconds apart, but different calls

                        It was something worth the question

                        Comment

                        • TheMatrix31
                          RF
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 52908

                          #102
                          Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?



                          lol, David Stern

                          Comment

                          • Beantownbomber718
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 110

                            #103
                            Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

                            in the 80's Foul calls were based upon actual fouls. Now i watch Superstars get these foul calls that have me scratching my head. I can watch a heat game right & for example a player can strip mike miller of the ball slapping down on his arm & No foul but when D-Wade or LeBron get stripped & the player gets all ball it's a foul. Or I'm a big fan of the Celtics,Rondo is a poor 3 pt shooter but sometimes when he gets bumped before the bump he senses contact & goes into a shooting motion they call the foul but it's not in the act of shooting??Why because he's not a 3 pt shooter? The refs just don't believe he would've spotted up for 3 because he's not a good shooter but Jamal Crawford gets 4 point plays all the time doing the same thing or sticking his foot out & pretending like a defender ran into his legs (Quite clever & Reggie Miller like i gotta admit) In my belief & I'm a true bball fan,basically a fan of the game & fundamentals. I believe the officials play too much favoritism,I admit too i watch my C's & sometimes they get bailed out of a loss by whistles,every team gets bailed out & that annoys me. Basketball is a game where players should be able to win it on there own,now a days games & championships are decided at the free throw line. I'm used to it now because i been watching teams get screwed for years,but it would be nice if the officials would calm it down a bit. So far i've actually watched the Pacers/Bulls series & both teams are very physical against each other & the officials have done a somewhat good job besides the fact they've bailed D-Rose out with 10 or more free throw attempts when he's shooting poorly but other than that great officiating in that series only.

                            Comment

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