Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

[da ThRONe]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Oh yeah add Andrew Bynum to my list.

[wwharton]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Kendrick Perkins dominates the paint in virtually any game he plays that isn't against Dwight Howard.



A few times.

He wasn't nearly as effective when he did too.

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I have a feeling Serge Ibaka will be on this list before too long.

You gotta dig up that Perkins thread. I broke down his actual stats along with his opponents (and minutes to boot). Not only does he not dominate, he hasn't even had the impact many give him credit for. Without going into all the details we can start and stop with the 24 or so minutes a game he played with the Celtics (can't speak for OKC yet). Nobody playing half a game dominates... nobody who's coach only wants to play half a game dominates.

Can we just sum this up by saying true pass first pg's and hard nosed defensive players?

Jason Kidd came to mind first when reading he topic title.

Yeah, I think "dominate" may be too strong a word for this topic. I think the only current players we have proof of would be Kidd, CP3, Nash, and Dwight (maybe include Garnett and Camby if we're talking about the past... Dathrone, I could even give a slight nod to a healthy Bynum). I think the bigs are obvious... their defense is what gets them on the list. Kidd, CP3 and Nash make their teammates so much better that I'd have to include them (and Kidd's got the D too).

But I think we have to consider players that we would never find out whether it were the case or not. I think James definitely falls in that category... Kobe too. Rose has potential.

I'm sorry but I can't put Rondo on this list. He makes the Celtics better but I don't think he makes the big 3 better, and as good as he is, I'm not sure it translates without the big 3 around him (to the point of saying he could dominate). I don't think he's on the level of a young Jason Kidd, and I think guys like CP3 are helped by the attention they draw that Rondo just would never get.

[Dice]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

You gotta dig up that Perkins thread. I broke down his actual stats along with his opponents (and minutes to boot). Not only does he not dominate, he hasn't even had the impact many give him credit for. Without going into all the details we can start and stop with the 24 or so minutes a game he played with the Celtics (can't speak for OKC yet). Nobody playing half a game dominates... nobody who's coach only wants to play half a game dominates.



Yeah, I think "dominate" may be too strong a word for this topic. I think the only current players we have proof of would be Kidd, CP3, Nash, and Dwight (maybe include Garnett and Camby if we're talking about the past... Dathrone, I could even give a slight nod to a healthy Bynum). I think the bigs are obvious... their defense is what gets them on the list. Kidd, CP3 and Nash make their teammates so much better that I'd have to include them (and Kidd's got the D too).

But I think we have to consider players that we would never find out whether it were the case or not. I think James definitely falls in that category... Kobe too. Rose has potential.

I'm sorry but I can't put Rondo on this list. He makes the Celtics better but I don't think he makes the big 3 better, and as good as he is, I'm not sure it translates without the big 3 around him (to the point of saying he could dominate). I don't think he's on the level of a young Jason Kidd, and I think guys like CP3 are helped by the attention they draw that Rondo just would never get.

Have to disagree with you on Rondo. Just because Rondo is a limited scorer doesn't take away his impact on the game. That's why I put the topic out there. Take away their scoring and can a player have a definite impact? Rondo falls into that category for his passing, defense and his rebounding. I know in the Finals last year, he came up with some BIG offensive rebounds. And this was against the Lakers, the biggest and best team last season. I also disagree with you on putting Kobe on this list. Scoring is what Kobe is about and if he's not scoring I'm not sure what else he can do to impact the game. Now if this was 5-7 years ago, he might have made an impact on the defensive end. BUT his scoring basically sets up his game. The problem is that, who's going to stop him from scoring? Kobe is probably the greatest scorer the league has seen since MJ. So I'd highly doubt if he could do anything else without his scoring.

Now I agree with the Perkins statement. When has he ever dominated a game?

[wwharton]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Have to disagree with you on Rondo. Just because Rondo is a limited scorer doesn't take away his impact on the game. That's why I put the topic out there. Take away their scoring and can a player have a definite impact? Rondo falls into that category for his passing, defense and his rebounding. I know in the Finals last year, he came up with some BIG offensive rebounds. And this was against the Lakers, the biggest and best team last season. I also disagree with you on putting Kobe on this list. Scoring is what Kobe is about and if he's not scoring I'm not sure what else he can do to impact the game. Now if this was 5-7 years ago, he might have made an impact on the defensive end. BUT his scoring basically sets up his game. The problem is that, who's going to stop him from scoring? Kobe is probably the greatest scorer the league has seen since MJ. So I'd highly doubt if he could do anything else without his scoring.

Now I agree with the Perkins statement. When has he ever dominated a game?

That's why I think the wording is a bit off (but everyone seems to be on the same page and I can't put my finger on the correct wording so...). I think on the Celtics, Rondo can dominate a game without scoring. But I think it has A LOT to do with the players around him. So taking the question extremely literally, I don't believe Rondo can do it. I do believe (picking a similar player) Kidd could do it, literally. Feel me? Not meant as a knock on what Rondo IS, and I know the topic was made with players like him in mind so just throwing that out there.

As for Kobe, again it's how you look at it. Kobe is a very smart basketball player and a good passer, solid rebounder and a solid defender. With the attention that he draws BECAUSE he's such a good scorer, I definitely believe he can create easy shots for others, see them and get the ball to them properly. This is, of course, with the other team assuming he's going to be scoring... otherwise that idea goes out the window and I agree with you. It's the same with LBJ, though he gets a higher edge for passing and rebounding of course.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Grant Hill

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Jason Kidd

/thread

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

wwharton, you realize that people put value in Perk because of his toughness and physicality in the paint. So when you say something like "he hasn't even had the impact many give him credit for" you really don't understand what people are actually giving him credit for. Players around the league have even said themselves that without Perk the Celtics are a lot less scary and now they can attack the paint without worrying about getting their ish handed to them. It's not that he is a great player, but rather he plays his role exceptionally and adds another dimension of toughness that most teams don't possess.

I swear you've got some grudge against Perk. Did that man harm you in some way? lol

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Yeahhhhh, it's obvious some folks have misinterpreted what the OP meant in the title.

[Jukeman]

@ 38, Kidd has a lot of good players around him..

He wouldn't dominate without them unless this was 10 years ago..

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Basically any good defender/distributor.

So got the PGs like CP3, Kidd and Nash. Then the bigs like Dwight, KG,etc

[Pared]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

wwharton, you realize that people put value in Perk because of his toughness and physicality in the paint. So when you say something like "he hasn't even had the impact many give him credit for" you really don't understand what people are actually giving him credit for. Players around the league have even said themselves that without Perk the Celtics are a lot less scary and now they can attack the paint without worrying about getting their ish handed to them. It's not that he is a great player, but rather he plays his role exceptionally and adds another dimension of toughness that most teams don't possess.

I swear you've got some grudge against Perk. Did that man harm you in some way? lol

Being an "impact player" and "dominate" aren't exactly one and the same.

Perkins "dominating" anything isn't something I'd expect anyone to say. Ever.

[The15thunter]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

Being an "impact player" and "dominate" aren't exactly one and the same.

Perkins "dominating" anything isn't something I'd expect anyone to say. Ever.

qft.

lamar odom can do it, as well.

[SPTO]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

The best i've ever seen at that was Dennis Rodman...As for players today probably Kidd or Nash though they're past their prime when it comes to that aspect strictly speaking. Ben Wallace was also really good at dominating a game without scoring as well.

[wwharton]

Re: Who can dominate a game without scoring a single point?

wwharton, you realize that people put value in Perk because of his toughness and physicality in the paint. So when you say something like "he hasn't even had the impact many give him credit for" you really don't understand what people are actually giving him credit for. Players around the league have even said themselves that without Perk the Celtics are a lot less scary and now they can attack the paint without worrying about getting their ish handed to them. It's not that he is a great player, but rather he plays his role exceptionally and adds another dimension of toughness that most teams don't possess.

I swear you've got some grudge against Perk. Did that man harm you in some way? lol

lol, I don't have anything against Perkins at all. BUT pretty much any team that goes on a long playoff run (and especially that wins a championship) will all of a sudden have players that are overrated. If he didn't play for the Celtics (or Lakers) half the people here would barely know who he is. Like I said, check out the other thread (I don't really feel like digging up the numbers again). He hasn't shut anybody down and he has played about 24 mins/game. Of course the Celtics aren't the same without him bc they don't have anyone that brings what he does to the table to replace him. But they aren't the same without Sheed either... especially with Shaq being hurt. He's just a piece to the puzzle, and not a very big piece. I'm not trying to hate on him, take a closer look yourself.

But with that said, this thread is about a player "dominating" and you don't even have to agree with me about Perkins overall to understand that he has not and never will dominate anything. Even with his "toughness and physicality" he ain't dominating the Cavs.

@ 38, Kidd has a lot of good players around him..

He wouldn't dominate without them unless this was 10 years ago..

My inclusion of Kidd is meant for the Kidd of 10 years ago.

[Jukeman]

Reggie Evans