NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

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  • Court_vision
    Banned
    • Oct 2002
    • 8290

    #2581
    Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

    Excellent article at www.grantland.com basically detailing why the players CANNOT win.




    .
    </ASIDE>Does anyone really believe that Paul Allen, worth $13.2 billion, is holding up this deal for a few million dollars out of his pocket?<SUP id=reffoot3>3</SUP> Of course not. The reality is that there is not, nor will there ever be, parity in the NBA. You need an elite superstar to win a championship, and there are maybe 10 of those in the NBA. Parity is simply being used to hide their true intent.
    The owners aren't holding out for parity. They are holding out because of indifference and vindictiveness. Financially, they have so much money and so many alternate sources of revenue that it doesn't matter if their teams play or not. And since most owners' teams aren't going to win anyway, the motivation just isn't there to cave. For certain owners, like Dan Gilbert, this is taken to an extreme. The man who penned the Comic Sans diatribe against LeBron James would love nothing more than to slice a year off James' championship window in Miami.
    So, the players must cave, right? They need paychecks and the owners appear indifferent. The short answer is yes. Economically speaking, they should cave immediately. They are going to lose more money from missing games than they will lose from taking a worse deal. And the players will eventually cave. There will be basketball again. But it's the system that causes reluctance. Sure enough, it's being reported that the owners are not offering 50 percent with a system the players covet, but are instead offering a choice: (1) a 50 percent split with a restrictive system, OR (2) a 47 percent split with a non-restrictive system. So, the players are in a situation where they have already lost, already given so much, and already covered the owners' losses (some of which are unrelated to players' salaries), and they now must choose between keeping more raw money or protecting that middle class of players. Not nearly as simple as dividing a $4 billion pie.

    Comment

    • jeremym480
      Speak it into existence
      • Oct 2008
      • 18198

      #2582
      Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

      ^^ Right. That's exactly what most in this thread have said all along. The players have zero leverage.
      My 2K17 Boston Celtics MyLeague

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      • cavsfan2
        MVP
        • Aug 2010
        • 3902

        #2583
        Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

        In no way are the owners negotiating in good faith. The only "Concessions" they have made are reducing the MLE. David Stern: "We have made alot of concessions, particulary reducing the MLE, which we wanted to get rid of it completely" That summarizes this lockout: Earth to Stern, that isnt a "concession" thats "negotiating"

        Comment

        • CharliePrince
          Banned
          • Mar 2011
          • 701

          #2584
          Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

          I'm expecting more of a

          SEASON HAS BEEN CANCELLED

          headline than a lockout is over headline

          sad but true

          how the hell did they ever get to this point

          The timing is all wrong, all of this posturing is worthless until Nov 15, that is *THE* magic date when players fold because they'll be missing paychecks

          Comment

          • WTF
            MVP
            • Aug 2002
            • 20274

            #2585
            Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

            Stop with the 15th junk. It's not *THE* anything, other than the date that *YOU* believe they'll feel the crunch. Granted, they won't be getting their paycheck on that date, but they know that they aren't getting a paycheck right now They're still getting their disbursement from the NBAPA where they didn't receive the 57% of BRI , so it's not really going to be real until they stop receiving those payments.
            Twitter - WTF_OS
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            Comment

            • TheMatrix31
              RF
              • Jul 2002
              • 52914

              #2586
              Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

              The season won't be canceled until late December or early January. So for all who are hoping for a season, just look to then. Until then, all of it is fluff in terms of a decision one way or the other.

              Comment

              • J_Posse
                Greatness Personified
                • Jun 2005
                • 11255

                #2587
                Originally posted by Court_vision
                Excellent article at www.grantland.com basically detailing why the players CANNOT win.




                .
                Does anyone really believe that Paul Allen, worth $13.2 billion, is holding up this deal for a few million dollars out of his pocket?3 Of course not. The reality is that there is not, nor will there ever be, parity in the NBA. You need an elite superstar to win a championship, and there are maybe 10 of those in the NBA. Parity is simply being used to hide their true intent.
                The owners aren't holding out for parity. They are holding out because of indifference and vindictiveness. Financially, they have so much money and so many alternate sources of revenue that it doesn't matter if their teams play or not. And since most owners' teams aren't going to win anyway, the motivation just isn't there to cave. For certain owners, like Dan Gilbert, this is taken to an extreme. The man who penned the Comic Sans diatribe against LeBron James would love nothing more than to slice a year off James' championship window in Miami.
                So, the players must cave, right? They need paychecks and the owners appear indifferent. The short answer is yes. Economically speaking, they should cave immediately. They are going to lose more money from missing games than they will lose from taking a worse deal. And the players will eventually cave. There will be basketball again. But it's the system that causes reluctance. Sure enough, it's being reported that the owners are not offering 50 percent with a system the players covet, but are instead offering a choice: (1) a 50 percent split with a restrictive system, OR (2) a 47 percent split with a non-restrictive system. So, the players are in a situation where they have already lost, already given so much, and already covered the owners' losses (some of which are unrelated to players' salaries), and they now must choose between keeping more raw money or protecting that middle class of players. Not nearly as simple as dividing a $4 billion pie.
                The article also explains how the owners are a bunch of rich *******s. The players have already conceded enough to help the financially struggling teams, but it isn't just about that. They want to gain an edge for future CBAs (where they will still claim losses), help increase the value of all franchises and hurt the players union (which they have).

                I also find serious fault with the players. They've seen all this coming for two years and did nothing to protect themselves or gain some sort of leverage.They have been reactive throughout this whole process, so now they're going to get ****ed over in the short or long-term.

                from Bills Backer Clubhouse
                Last edited by J_Posse; 11-05-2011, 01:46 PM.
                San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions

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                • cmebfresh
                  Pro
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 930

                  #2588
                  Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                  i have my doubts whether most players actually calculated what that difference of 2% really means, in compared with losing salary from being locked out?

                  I bet losing games thus losing pay,, is alot more than that stupid 2%…

                  you trying to win a battle,, but will lose the war in my opinion.

                  “pigs get fat,but hogs get slaughtered” stop being a hog!!!!
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                  • WTF
                    MVP
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 20274

                    #2589
                    Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                    It's already been shown by MANY of the media that they'll lose half as much in the 2 weeks thats been cancelled, that they would have lost over a 7 year period if they would have signed the deal...

                    Those numbers may not be exact, but that's what we've all been saying. It's stupid of them, and we just dont understand it.
                    Twitter - WTF_OS
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                    Comment

                    • goh
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 20755

                      #2590
                      Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                      Originally posted by ScoobySnax
                      Tyson Chandler talks about how the Owners' proposal would prohibit him from re-signing with the Mavs:

                      What do y'all think about this? Is he talking out of his *** or is this something that could be a real concern? I'm not sure I follow why it would be so hard to bring him back. Is it because the luxury tax could skyrocket?
                      Of course he's talking out his ***. If he really wants to come back take less money. Not difficult. It's still up to him.

                      Comment

                      • WTF
                        MVP
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 20274

                        #2591
                        Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                        And it's now underway... Here's to hoping that something good comes out of it

                        Just wish they wouldn't wait until 5pm to start their meeting, but I guess that's just 2pm PT...
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                        • Rocky
                          All Star
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 6896

                          #2592
                          Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                          Originally posted by J_Posse512
                          The article also explains how the owners are a bunch of rich *******s. The players have already conceded enough to help the financially struggling teams, but it isn't just about that. They want to gain an edge for future CBAs (where they will still claim losses), help increase the value of all franchises and hurt the players union (which they have).

                          I also find serious fault with the players. They've seen all this coming for two years and did nothing to protect themselves or gain some sort of leverage.They have been reactive throughout this whole process, so now they're going to get ****ed over in the short or long-term.

                          from Bills Backer Clubhouse
                          The biggest thing I got from that article is that under the very worst system, mid level player earns an average of 1.67 million dollars a year.

                          It really made me feel sorry for the players.
                          "Maybe I can't win. But to beat me, he's going to have to kill me. And to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me. And to do that, he's got to be willing to die himself. I don't know if he's ready to do that."
                          -Rocky Balboa

                          Comment

                          • da ThRONe
                            Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 8528

                            #2593
                            Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                            I don't see how anything that's going to most likely be in the CBA is going to promote parity. The increased luxury tax and the amnesty rule all are going to further hurt the lesser rev generating teams. The only place this new CBA will add parity is among owners pockets.
                            You looking at the Chair MAN!

                            Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                            Comment

                            • J_Posse
                              Greatness Personified
                              • Jun 2005
                              • 11255

                              #2594
                              Originally posted by Rocky
                              The biggest thing I got from that article is that under the very worst system, mid level player earns an average of 1.67 million dollars a year.

                              It really made me feel sorry for the players.
                              Who's feeling sorry for rich people?

                              I see fault with both groups, but I'm not getting caught up in conversations about their (financial) worth, again. The players earn what they negotiate and the owners set the market value. That's all I'll say.

                              from Bills Backer Clubhouse
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                              Official OS Bills Backers Club Member

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                              • cmebfresh
                                Pro
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 930

                                #2595
                                Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

                                Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
                                I will not be surprised if the players go down to 50/50 today...nothing definitive, just a sense I'm getting from some conversations....


                                crazy AINT IT JUST WASTING TIME.
                                "Sometimes i sit and piss myself" - Quote Cmebfresh

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