NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

You don't throw that out there if you don't have an idea what your side will agree too. I do this every day and my company would be furious if I even hinted at a deal for a certain amount that wasn't approved. If you offer it and your side balks, it affects future negotiations.

Agreed....

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Well Hunter did just say that 53 is their number and thats it

He pretty much solidified Stern's game

So much for Roger Mason saying they may be willing to drop from 53%

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

So much for Roger Mason saying they may be willing to drop from 53%

Roger Mason - "52% How u"


Its funny I saw a wiretap up with Amare's picture smiling saying "we're making progress"

Yeah it was a Ken Berger tweet

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

You don't throw that out there if you don't have an idea what your side will agree too. I do this every day and my company would be furious if I even hinted at a deal for a certain amount that wasn't approved. If you offer it and your side balks, it affects future negotiations.

He is Negotiating. That's why they're all there.

To sit there and say xxx is our number and we don't wanna hear **** else is not Negotiating.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
Hunter: Our guys have indicated a willingness to lose games.

No, no, no Hunter.

Ask the Rank and File of the Players if they're willing to lose games. The Kobes and the Lebrons and the Wades and the Melos and the rest of the stars probably are, but that's a very small percentage of players who are willing.

Oh well, only a matter of time before the idiots like 7 Day Dray(Blatche), Javale McGee are back in the club fighting each other again over who can play the role of Captain Save-a-***.

I wonder if Delonte will bust out the good old Guitar Case and the T-Rex on I-95 and go for another spin since he'll have nothing to do this fall.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

He is Negotiating. That's why they're all there.

To sit there and say xxx is our number and we don't wanna hear **** else is not Negotiating.

Huh? I dont understand what you are saying. Stern threw out 50% and asked Hunter if his side would be ok with that. Hunter met with his side, said no and said he didn't think that there was a reason for them to continue negotiating.

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Lets feed this thread a little optimism

The reality is that the NBA owners and players, after showing most of their cards Tuesday in a bargaining session that failed to save an on-time start to the regular season, are approximately $80 million-a-year apart on the economics of a new collective bargaining agreement, multiple sources with knowledge of the negotiations told CBSSports.com.

In that group, the league -- sensing that the opportunity for a deal was there -- proposed a 50-50 split with no additional expense reductions over a seven-year proposal, with the seventh year being a players' option, one of the people said.

While the owners were caucusing, a member of the players' group returned with a counterproposal -- approximately 52 percent of BRI for the players with no additional expenses deducted. The players' counterproposal followed the format presented by the owners -- a 51-53 percent band with 51 percent guaranteed and a cap of 53. The league rejected the offer, the sources said.

So while Hunter and Stern remained publicly entrenched in the economic positions of their most recent formal proposals -- with the players asking for 53 percent and the league offering effectively 47, the reality is this: the gap has closed to 2 percentage points of BRI, the difference between the midpoint of the two offers.

With each percentage point of BRI worth about $40 million, the two sides -- who were at one time $8 billion apart over 10 years -- are now a mere $80 million apart on an annual basis.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Huh? I dont understand what you are saying. Stern threw out 50% and asked Hunter if his side would be ok with that. Hunter met with his side, said no and said he didn't think that there was a reason for them to continue negotiating.

Hunter said 53% is our number. Stern said 47% is their number.

Stern conceded and asked if they would have discussions at 50%.

Hunter told him to go F himself.


How is that negotiating? If the owners were going to give up something to actually agree to 50%...they would sure be asking for the players to give up somewhere else on their end.

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I usually lean toward the players, but if the owners have come up to 50/50 from their 46% or flat 2 Bil. offer that would have had the players in the low 40's at the end of the deal, then the players union is making a mistake, IMO. The players are going to eff around and end up having to take something in the mid to low 40's when all is said and done.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The NBA is about to shoot itself in the leg. After a season where the league generated more revenue than ever before, when television ratings were the highest they had bee since the Jordan-era Bulls, the league next Monday will cancel regular season games.

Because they can’t figure out how to divide up the fans’ money. In the middle of a deep recession.

It’s idiotic.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but know this — most of it belongs on the NBA owners and Commissioner David Stern. They are pulling the trigger, they will seriously damage the league for years.

Usually fans blame players when professional sports leagues go on strike or are locked out. The players are faces and names we recognize, and we know exactly how much they make — and we don’t relate to those sums. Even the NBA league minimum salary puts a player into the nation’s highest tax bracket.

But we don’t really know who the owners are (outside of Mark Cuban). And we don’t know how much money they make off their teams (which is hard to determine as teams are in tangled financial webs). They are faceless unknowns, big impersonal corporations (except when Dan Gilbert writes letters). We blame the players because we know and understand them in a way we don’t the owners.

However, the NBA players are the ones making the real concessions in these negotiations, not the owners. The players have tried to negotiate in good faith, the league has tried to bury them.

The real labor issue is the definition and split of “basketball related income” or BRI. It’s always about the money. BRI is basically all the money that comes into teams from national television deals, ticket sales, a percentage of in arena concessions and sponsorships, and so on.

In the old deal, the players got 57 percent of BRI in salaries. They have offered to reduce that down to 53 percent according to both the union and league. That is about a $160 million give back of real dollars from the players to the owners next season. David Stern said Tuesday (in a press conference shown on NBA TV) that is not enough.

“In order for us to have the robust revenue sharing that the owners want, and that the players want, we have to be profitable as a league,” said Stern, who has claimed the owners lost $300 million last season (a very debatable figure). “And there’s simply no way that ($160 million give back by players) makes us profitable.”

The owners started these negotiations trying to move the middle — the spot of compromise where a deal can be struck — by making outrageous demands. They wanted to roll back salaries of signed contracts, they wanted an NFL-style hard cap, they wanted no guaranteed contracts, and they wanted the players to only take 46 percent of the BRI. Basically, they wanted everything, they talked about radical changes.

There was Stern on Tuesday talking about all the things the owners have given back in these negotiations — they moved off the hard salary cap, the demand for non-guaranteed contracts and the salary roll backs. All things they didn’t have in the first place, all just give backs on paper. And they upped their offer to 47 percent of the BRI. A whopping one percent.

The players have moved $160 million, the owners $40 million in real dollars.

The middle ground? With the owners starting at 46 percent and the players at 57 percent, the average is 51.5 percent of BRI. The players have moved toward that but stopped because the owners have barely budged.

The owners are not a group trying to make a deal, that’s a group trying to steamroll the opposition.

The owners know they have the leverage and they plan to use it. They are led by hardliners that made bad business decisions — overpaying for franchises, bringing in a lot of partners and leverage to do it — then complain they can’t make enough money on it. Certainly they deserve the chance to make a profit, but it’s not the players fault that a bunch of owners have huge debt service payments on their franchises. The owners want to make those payments on the backs of the players.

Stern said that they floated the idea “in concept” to the players of discussing a 50-50 split of BRI under the old definition, but the players rejected it. Sources with the union told Alex Kennedy of Hoopsworld that was not how things went at all. Know this — BRI is not total revenue, the owners get to write off expenses off the top, then the rest is divided up. So even that 50-50 is less than half of what the league brings in.

And the league is about to bring in a lot more money. The Lakers local television rights deal is about to jump from around $30 million a year to more like $150 million a year. The Celtics just inked a new deal, as did the Nets with the move to Brooklyn. Then there is the new national television deal in 2016.

The owners are going to see more money, they are just fighting to keep a larger share of it. The good of the game be damned.

In the end, it’s the fans that get screwed over in this. Well, the fans and the arena workers and others who depend on the league and now will be looking or a second job to keep a roof over their heads and food in front of their children. Arena workers are not making big money and they have no way easily replace that income.

Fans should be angry. Just know that it is the owners that locked the doors. It’s the owners not really moving in negotiations. It’s the owners that want to see how the players react when they miss a paycheck or two, so they will drag this out. The owners are trying to steamroll the union, not find a fair deal in the middle.

This lockout is on the owners, make no mistake about it.

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[cmebfresh]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

NBA broke my heart, Was really looking forward to this season. Now my basketball heart is airless.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Hunter said 53% is our number. Stern said 47% is their number.

Stern conceded and asked if they would have discussions at 50%.

Hunter told him to go F himself.


How is that negotiating? If the owners were going to give up something to actually agree to 50%...they would sure be asking for the players to give up somewhere else on their end.

They've given up plenty. Many owners want a hard cap...thats off the table. Many owners want the majority share...Stern offered a even split. If Hunter was negotiating he would have come back with a number instead he walked away.

Stern made a few valid points at the press conference. This is a dangerous game the union is playing over what amounts to 80 mil a year. If they balk and games get cancelled, they may not see 50% again. This is exactly what happened in the NHL lockout. The players dared the league to cancel games...the NHL did and a year later the players got a worse deal than they would have received if they agreed before games were cancelled.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Also good luck to all these players looking to go overseas now. Unless you are Kobe or Lebron, most of the teams have full rosters and are close to starting their season.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

They've given up plenty. Many owners want a hard cap...thats off the table. Many owners want the majority share...Stern offered a even split. If Hunter was negotiating he would have come back with a number instead he walked away.

Stern made a few valid points at the press conference. This is a dangerous game the union is playing over what amounts to 80 mil a year. If they balk and games get cancelled, they may not see 50% again. This is exactly what happened in the NHL lockout. The players dared the league to cancel games...the NHL did and a year later the players got a worse deal than they would have received if they agreed before games were cancelled.

How are the owners giving up anything. That's like me telling you that you can keep 10 extra % of your money then turn around and say I'm giving you 10% back.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

How are the owners giving up anything. That's like me telling you that you can keep 10 extra % of your money then turn around and say I'm giving you 10% back.

He listed a couple examples of them giving up things in the very post you quoted.