NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

My problem with you and Da Throne's argument is that you are overcomplicating the issues. Lets be clear:

THE OWNERS DONT SEEM TO CARE IF THERE IS A SEASON OR NOT!

That alone puts the ball in their court. They have all the leverage. So if they decide that 50 is where the BRI should be....thats where its going to be. The players are delaying the inevitable. They owners arent going to capitulate and give them 53 or 52 because they have no reason too. The players cant force them to do anything. Public opinion still seems to be against the players so the public isnt going to force the owners hands and that nuclear option that you suggested would cost them 1 or 2 seasons in checks.

So the ball is in their court. Take the 50 or 51, take the punitive tax with some tweaks and take less guaranteed years. You do that you get 2.4 billion this year. You dont and you lose that 2.4 billion, spend money on lawsuits and you end up with a hard cap and less than 50. Its their choice.

Now getting to the specifics, a punitive tax isnt a hard cap. If Cuban wants to spend 100 million extra to go 50 million over the cap....he still can. If he thinks that the extra 50 mill in payroll will lead to a championship, he has to be willing to pay a significant cost and take that risk. The only part of the punitive tax that Stern presented that I didn't like is that after 5 yrs he would force owners who have been over the cap that long to cut payroll and get under the cap. Take that out and the proposal is very reasonable.

None of this makes the owners position right or close to being fair. That's what this discussion is about.

Just because the bully can beat all the other kids up doesn't mean he's right and all the students should bow down to him.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

None of this makes the owners position right or close to being fair. That's what this discussion is about.

Just because the bully can beat all the other kids up doesn't mean he's right and all the students should bow down to him.

See thats where your wrong. I havent seen one "pro owners" person argue that anything about this is fair or right. The only thing I've seen people say here is that some of the owners offers have been reasonable. That right there is the reason why people are somewhat irritated with some of your posts. Its because you are arguing a point that no one else is making.

My and most people here's point is that right now is the best deal they can get....so they should take it. All those things you are arguing that the players should get, they arent going to get no matter how long they stand united.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

See thats where your wrong. I havent seen one "pro owners" person argue that anything about this is fair or right. The only thing I've seen people say here is that some of the owners offers have been reasonable. That right there is the reason why people are somewhat irritated with some of your posts. Its because you are arguing a point that no one else is making.

My and most people here's point is that right now is the best deal they can get....so they should take it. All those things you are arguing that the players should get, they arent going to get no matter how long they stand united.

I disagree about it being reasonable which is why I say it's unfair.

I don't think there's much difference between unfair and unreasonable.

Once again I think it's well known who's more likely to win in these situation, but like I've mentioned IMO giving up easily here will open the door for the owners to continue to extort the players more and more moving forward.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

How can you? The only thing we know is that owners arent afraid to lose a season. Everything else can be manipulated. Thats why you cant look at it in a complex manner.

Ok. And we all know the players are united? We all know that the players love the fans? See what I mean.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Ok. And we all know the players are united? We all know that the players love the fans? See what I mean.

That's what I don't get it seems like everybody understand the owners are blatantly not interested in negotiating "in good faith", and nobody has a problem with it.

[WTF]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

da ThRONe, you've made your stance on the lockout, now explain how the owner's aren't negotiating in good faith? There is no deal in place... NOTHING. They're negotiating a new deal, that would still allow the players to get their massive overpaid contracts... and still get a large chunk of BRI. How is that not in good faith, trying to keep the league from losing money and end up contracting teams, causing not only 15 players per 2 teams jobs, but also everyone employed by those teams who would be contracted?

I'm sorry that you aren't happy with your million dollars for playing a game... and want a big chunk of BRI... But on the same token you have to keep the teams who are paying those salaries afloat.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

da ThRONe, you've made your stance on the lockout, now explain how the owner's aren't negotiating in good faith? There is no deal in place... NOTHING. They're negotiating a new deal, that would still allow the players to get their massive overpaid contracts... and still get a large chunk of BRI. How is that not in good faith, trying to keep the league from losing money and end up contracting teams, causing not only 15 players per 2 teams jobs, but also everyone employed by those teams who would be contracted?

I'm sorry that you aren't happy with your million dollars for playing a game... and want a big chunk of BRI... But on the same token you have to keep the teams who are paying those salaries afloat.

I already point out things they can give the union in return for forfeiting revenue and salary restructuring. Negotiating with no intention to give anything IMO is no negotiation at all.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Lol at Javale:

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32718682

Despite that plea, SlamOnline.com reported that McGee estimated that the number of attendees was "about 25 to 30," fewer than the number who attended the NBPA's most recent regional meeting, held in Las Vegas back in September.

"Everybody knows we've got 2 get more people 2 come to the meetings," McGee said, according to SI.com.

Shortly after multiple sources independently reported McGee's comments, he posted the following message on Twitter: "I never said anyone is ready to fold! Media always wanna turn it!"

Within an hour, the Los Angeles Times posted audio of McGee's comments, confirming that he did make the statement.

[bkrich83]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I already point out things they can give the union in return for forfeiting revenue and salary restructuring. Negotiating with no intention to give anything IMO is no negotiation at all.

It's called leverage. The owners have it and the players don't. It's that simple. Has nothing to do with good faith. These owners got where they are because they are for the most part shrewd businessmen. In any negotiation whether it's a CBA, or kid trading baseball cards, if someone has leverage that's the way it goes.

The owners simply don't need the players, the players do need the owners. That pretty much ensures the negotiations will go the way they are. There's no blame here, it simply is what it is.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Fisher just cracked on Javale, saying basically "you cannot say that if you are hardly in the room."

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, Javale is a total buffoon and deserves to be made fun of. On the other, Fisher should probably not be cracking down on the players who make statements.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I told you they dont want certain players making comments and its not a mystery seeing as those some of those guys wont even bother checking out the labor negotiations

Even grant hill wont bother going , doesnt think there is a need to...he said it himself long time ago

I would love to hear on more of the non star players, especially how the stand united campaign is going in the lower ranks

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I'm still waiting for the first person to have a Patrick Ewing and/or a Kenny Anderson moment. Wouldn't be a Lockout without something like that happening.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I already point out things they can give the union in return for forfeiting revenue and salary restructuring. Negotiating with no intention to give anything IMO is no negotiation at all.

What do you think the Owners should give up that the Players don't have or already have?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

From Shane Battier:

Methinks I would forgo a few points on the BRI, if we could guarantee that NBA games would be more affordable for fans, especially families

Now this is one thing I will kill the Owners on and even though there's unlikely to be any change in that, it still makes no sense(same goes for the NFL as well)for Ticket Prices to be that high. None at all...

[Cubfan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

From Shane Battier:



Now this is one thing I will kill the Owners on and even though there's unlikely to be any change in that, it still makes no sense(same goes for the NFL as well)for Ticket Prices to be that high. None at all...

The NBA cares more about its sponsers then its fans. They want the fans money but would rather have it come from sponsors.