NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Go back and re-read what I said because that's not what I said at all and if you've done YOUR research, you would know that they had a chance to avoid getting a bad deal. Hell, you yourself at the time said they should've accepted it and that they would get a bad deal later if they didn't accept it now all of a sudden, you're complaining about them getting a bad deal?

Honestly, I really don't know what side you're on because you keep going back and forth with your main thing is "Man, how come you guys keep ignoring the Owners" when NOBODY IS DOING THAT AT ALL.

So spare the pity posts about one side getting treated better by a bunch of randoms on the INTERNET OF ALL PLACES over the other whereas if you followed this whole thing from the time it started, that hasn't been the case at all.

But I'm done with the issue man. Keep believing everyone is placing full blame at the players while not blaming the Owners for this mess at all.

This is a matter of who side I am on, not how this will play out. I think the players are getting tagged as being unreasonable when it's the owners at this point that's unwilling to operated in good faith.

I believe if the player just lay down the owners won't stop here they'll keep on taking and taking.

If people here were saying the players should accept the deal that's one thing, but saying their being greedy when their the only group giving up anything is inaccurate IMO.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Here is my problem with your argument: Yes, the players are "standing united" but the only people hurting are the players. We can all agree that most of the owners have other sources of income and aren't talking a loss (some of the smaller teams may actually save money during the lockout). The players are the ones missing paychecks starting saturday.

So whats the point? The players have no leverage, are going to lose money and will be eventually forced with taking a **** deal now and playing, taking an even ****tier deal in 2012 and missing checks they will never get back or missing an entire season.

Sometimes you have to know when you have a good hand and when you don't....and the players don't.

The players are in a tough jam. Either lay down and get screwed or fight and get screwed more. Even if they lay down quietly this time imagine what the next labor situation is going to look like for the players. The more the players give the less leverage they will have moving forward.

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I fell bad for the none star players, I mean really think about it, the nba has maybe 50 huge stars, I mean mega stars, those players can get paid showing there faces in a crowd, those 1 to 3 years players will struggle financial big time while the pimadonna stars are mostly set already, they can play over seas and these othe guys cant. The smaller no name or early year players will suffer.

Crap if I'm one of those players I gather the rest of them and approach Billy hunter and the rest of the grossly paid players and say this is where we draw the line and pull a Spreewell and say we have kids to feed get this crap settled already. Think about guys.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The players are in a tough jam. Either lay down and get screwed or fight and get screwed more. Even if they lay down quietly this time imagine what the next labor situation is going to look like for the players. The more the players give the less leverage they will have moving forward.

Thats not completely true. The players could always strike or do what they could have done in Feb and walk out of the All Star game. They don't have leverage now but if they give up 50% today, here is no reason they can't negotiate for 53% in 5-7 yrs once a new tv deal is up and if the recession is over.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Thats not completely true. The players could always strike or do what they could have done in Feb and walk out of the All Star game. They don't have leverage now but if they give up 50% today, here is no reason they can't negotiate for 53% in 5-7 yrs once a new tv deal is up and if the recession is over.

I can only imagine the spin the owners will use or the comments from some if the players strike. They're already being called out in a year they're being locked out. And they will be in the same if not worse situation as far as leverage.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

David Alridge is just grilling David Stern in this interview right now on NBA TV. I can see the folked toungue coming out of his mouth right now.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I can only imagine the spin the owners will use or the comments from some if the players strike. They're already being called out in a year they're being locked out. And they will be in the same if not worse situation as far as leverage.

Actually they wouldn't be. See I'm working under the premise that you presented...that the players accept 50% and then 7-10 years from now the owners plan to stick it to them and only offer them 40 or 45%. If they strike with the BRI being below 50 for them and with owners making a profit (assuming a 50% BRI does that), I could easily see public opinion flip to the players.

The problem now is most people see 50% and it sounds fair. They see players like Lewis stealing money and they see that the system is somewhat screwed up. They see teams like Indiana using money hand over fist. Thats why public opinion seems to be with the owners.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Nuclear bombs are a bad idea if it blows you up. Decert isn't going to get them 53%.

I'm a radical. And I believe that once your back is in the corner, the only way you get out is if you shoot your way out. Even if you get shot. If they take you out, make sure you take a couple of them with you.

The idea of the de-cert(at least from my way of thinking) is not for it to work. Heck, I know the odds are against the players on that. BUT make the league just spend money in it's legal war chest through litigation by having the individual players file individual suits against the league. Just keep throwing anti-trust law suits against the league and make them spend money in the courts. Have about 30-100 players file them separately.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

You think doing all that would help get Basketball back quicker?(Which is what people want basically and don't care who gets what to get it back)

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I'm a radical. And I believe that once your back is in the corner, the only way you get out is if you shoot your way out. Even if you get shot. If they take you out, make sure you take a couple of them with you.

The idea of the de-cert(at least from my way of thinking) is not for it to work. Heck, I know the odds are against the players on that. BUT make the league just spend money in it's legal war chest through litigation by having the individual players file individual suits against the league. Just keep throwing anti-trust law suits against the league and make them spend money in the courts. Have about 30-100 players file them separately.

You want to see the NBPA destroy itself? De-cert. That would guarantee that the owners will screw them over and that the players would basically riot.

Decertifying would cost massive amounts of money for the NBPA, which they won't be able to spend more than the billionaire owners, and would drag this thing out until at least, April of 2012.

The amount of bad PR that would also come from this would be horrifying to the NBPA. You think it's bad now, wait until they Decertify. They would be blamed for cancelling the whole season, and rightfully so.

You aren't taking out any owners by doing that. You are handing them a 55% share of the BRI and a PR victory.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Actually they wouldn't be. See I'm working under the premise that you presented...that the players accept 50% and then 7-10 years from now the owners plan to stick it to them and only offer them 40 or 45%. If they strike with the BRI being below 50 for them and with owners making a profit (assuming a 50% BRI does that), I could easily see public opinion flip to the players.

The problem now is most people see 50% and it sounds fair. They see players like Lewis stealing money and they see that the system is somewhat screwed up. They see teams like Indiana using money hand over fist. Thats why public opinion seems to be with the owners.

But that's not the players fault if Lewis gets that money. It's the people who offered it.

The NFL owners aren't losing money and they still used their leverage to extract more money from the players I see the NBA doing the same thing.

[Altimus]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

But that's not the players fault if Lewis gets that money. It's the people who offered it.

The NFL owners aren't losing money and they still used their leverage to extract more money from the players I see the NBA doing the same thing.

Of course it's not Lewis's fault. No one is going to say I'm only worth half of what you're offering me. However, it doesn't change the fact the current system is broken.

[clipperfan811]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I just want to see the budget for teams even. It's not fair that the Lakers can spend so much for their team but Sacramento can't. We all watch basketball for the competitiveness, but when it's not competitive, it's not fun to watch anymore. The playing field needs to be evened out.

When it boils down to it, the fans are the whole reason for the NBA. It's all about us. There are 30 teams. We want to see them all compete on equal grounds.

That's just not going to happen even if budgets where forced to be spent exactly the same to the dollar for every team in the league. Players would still go to certain teams over others. Teams in cities with better opportunities for endorsements, teams in states with more favorable tax laws, teams in states with nicer weather or a more storied history.

Not to mention certain teams would still be operated better than others. Even if we break up these super teams there aren't 30 guys in the league that are all equally elite.

Teams like Sacramento weren't always down in the cellar. In the early 2000's they were a game away from the finals and selling out arenas left and right. Most teams go on up swings and down swings, even the Lakers had a few years of struggle after the Shaq trade. Boston was pretty bad for a few years here and there before the og big 3.

Plus one of the most exciting things about sports is seeing David take out Goliath. And you're honestly telling us that you want to see that go away?

Now I know I'm being a little harsh but it's only to prove a point that this whole catchphrase of competitive balance is way over-blown.

The biggest issue has always been that player contracts are too long and too lucrative for the league to sustain.

Yes it's a 50/50 problem a)Some GM's and their owners are signing off on ridiculous deals for players who don't deserve them. b) Some players are straight hustling some teams for all their money, giving them just enough to have 1 or 2 desperate GM's throw stupid money at them.

They've essentially created a player bubble much like the housing bubble. Demand drives prices up to unsustainable levels and everyone gets caught up in the frenzy. Sooner or later that artificial bubble has to burst and prices need to come back down to reality. It's a harsh reality for players to face but the bubble has burst.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Of course it's not Lewis's fault. No one is going to say I'm only worth half of what you're offering me. However, it doesn't change the fact the current system is broken.

Agreed, but that's an area where the owners don't seem to get any blame. Sure the system needs tweaking, but that doesn't mean go crazy and give big money to above average guys. We are having a labor stoppage over something the franchise can put an end to themselves. Yet nobody is calling out the owners for being dumb. Let a player tweet something and we pick every line apart. You can't blast the players for being greedy/dumb for not accepting the deal, while ignoring the fact that frachises don't have enough sense to avoid giving a player of Lewis' caliber 20million a year. It goes both ways and IMO the player have given a large share to ensure the system is better while the owners haven't given up anything. Yet people still defend their stance.

[clipperfan811]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Yeah, nobody is saying this at all.

The Players(aka Top 10%)had a chance BEFORE the Lockout to take an even better deal than what's currently out there and everyone was screaming "Oh man, they should take that because they won't get another one like that if they wait and it'll only get worse from here" and when they did turn it down, everyone here said they were stupid.

They wanted to take their chance(because of ego and pride)that the Owners would cave in and that the same deal would be on the table in a few months. But now the reality for them(Players)is that the Owners' stance hasn't changed but NOW they're being offered a worse deal than what was originally offered back in June. But because the Owners are now going in on the players Kobe Bryant Style, people are supposed to feel for them when they could've avoided being in this position in the first place back in June?

Nobody told you(Players)to play Russian Roulette with them when it was obvious from the beginning that you would not win this whole thing at all and that's my biggest problem with that. They let their ego and pride get in the way of common sense, especially when those 2 are the biggest downfalls of man.

Hey Pack, what was the deal that was offered in June? I've been following this closely but with so much that's gone on recently I can't recall what the terms were just before the Lockout began.