Most complete PF today

[AlexBrady]

Re: Most complete PF today

Its unbelievable how this position has evolved since I started watching the game. Guys like Nowitzki, Bosh, and Aldridge essentially play like oversized wing men.

Unfortunately, jump shooting bigs are rarely the fulcrum of ballclubs with legitimate Championship aspirations. Thats because jump shooters either make or miss and can't inflict fouls or stretch the defense out of shape.
Blake Griffin is an incredible dunker but he doesn't know how to play the whole game. He needs to set much better screens, develop a jump shot, and use his base better when defending the post.

Kevin Love's team is 12-15, so his incredible numbers haven't really led to wins. He is an awesome rebounder, yet he is a total non-athlete and can't move laterally so he'll never be an adequate defender. 25 ppg is too much for him. On a ballclub with Title dreams, Love is strictly a role player who can rebound like a savage.

Hopefully Minnesota doesn't repeat the Kevin Garnett situation and try to surround the bogus superstar with complementary pieces, not realizing that the headline guy is a complementary player himself.

[JaySmooov]

Re: Most complete PF today

Its unbelievable how this position has evolved since I started watching the game. Guys like Nowitzki, Bosh, and Aldridge essentially play like oversized wing men.

Unfortunately, jump shooting bigs are rarely the fulcrum of ballclubs with legitimate Championship aspirations. Thats because jump shooters either make or miss and can't inflict fouls or stretch the defense out of shape.
Blake Griffin is an incredible dunker but he doesn't know how to play the whole game. He needs to set much better screens, develop a jump shot, and use his base better when defending the post.

Kevin Love's team is 12-15, so his incredible numbers haven't really led to wins. He is an awesome rebounder, yet he is a total non-athlete and can't move laterally so he'll never be an adequate defender. 25 ppg is too much for him. On a ballclub with Title dreams, Love is strictly a role player who can rebound like a savage.

Hopefully Minnesota doesn't repeat the Kevin Garnett situation and try to surround the bogus superstar with complementary pieces, not realizing that the headline guy is a complementary player himself.

I don't agree with this post at all, and I'm not even really a basketball fan. This just doesn't seem like it makes ANY sense.

[Dice]

Re: Most complete PF today

Its unbelievable how this position has evolved since I started watching the game. Guys like Nowitzki, Bosh, and Aldridge essentially play like oversized wing men.

Unfortunately, jump shooting bigs are rarely the fulcrum of ballclubs with legitimate Championship aspirations. Thats because jump shooters either make or miss and can't inflict fouls or stretch the defense out of shape.
Blake Griffin is an incredible dunker but he doesn't know how to play the whole game. He needs to set much better screens, develop a jump shot, and use his base better when defending the post.

Kevin Love's team is 12-15, so his incredible numbers haven't really led to wins. He is an awesome rebounder, yet he is a total non-athlete and can't move laterally so he'll never be an adequate defender. 25 ppg is too much for him. On a ballclub with Title dreams, Love is strictly a role player who can rebound like a savage.

Hopefully Minnesota doesn't repeat the Kevin Garnett situation and try to surround the bogus superstar with complementary pieces, not realizing that the headline guy is a complementary player himself.

Apparently, a line is being drawn when it comes to the term “big man”. Big men is now the new terminology for center. As you stated, power forwards are now oversized wing men. As we all know, the center position has gone to the waste. Dwight Howard is the best center in the league right now with Bynum being second. You took those two guys and threw them in the 90’s where the field was Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and young Shaq and those guys wouldn’t even sniff the all-star game.

Love is more of a throw back power forward. He’s a guy who’s not refined offensively but he’s more of the Charles Oakley mindset of mixing it up in the paint. Love can improve defensively even though he has limited lateral quickness. Charles Oakley was never fast or quick but was a solid defensive post player. Love can be similar. I agree that Love cannot be the best player on a championship team. He can definitely be a piece and make a huge impact on that type of team but I just couldn’t see him being “The Man”.

I don’t think the T-wolves will try to build around Kevin Love. It’s obvious they know what they have in him and it’s definitely not a top 5 player. However, I won’t admonish the T-Wolves for trying to build around Garnett. Garnett was a legit superstar and twice the player Kevin love is. However, the team they built around Garnett just didn’t seem to be the recipe for a championship team. Cassell was ok for the short term. Sprewell was a talented head case. They had Trenton Hassell, a bench player at best, starting at the two guard for them. They signed one of the biggest bust of all time in Michael Olowokandi to start at center. It just didn’t seem right. And despite the fact that they made it to the Western Conference Finals in 2004, they were dispatched by the Lakers who were disjointed chemistry wise during that time as well.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Most complete PF today

Kevin Love's team is 12-15, so his incredible numbers haven't really led to wins. He is an awesome rebounder, yet he is a total non-athlete and can't move laterally so he'll never be an adequate defender. 25 ppg is too much for him. On a ballclub with Title dreams, Love is strictly a role player who can rebound like a savage.

Kevin Love is in the conversation for best PF is because of 3 things basically.

• Rebounding - The man goes after the rebounds like a dog goes after a bone after you throw it. Every time. Only a handful of guys in the league have the same motor on the boards.
• Hustle - Love is probably the best at turning hustle into points. 30% of his points come from the free throw line (which is a higher % than lebron). Plus the fact he hits his free throws at a high rate - we all know post players are notoriously bad free throw shooters.
• Three Point Shooting - Like it or not, that extra point makes a difference, even with his less than stellar spot up shooting, it still makes his point per possession competitive with the top tier PF's.

Things he needs to improve on

• Passing - Kevin love this year has many times become a black hole, and while I can't fault him since there really isn't other decent offensive options, he's gone a little too far. And when he does pass out of a double team, it's often turned over. The thing I find funny the most is when a guard (Ridnour/Rubio) passes him the ball in the post, then that guard cuts to the basket around him, he always fakes like he's handing the ball off, but I've never actually seen him hand off the ball. lol. Anyway, for him to be considered a MVP, he needs to trust his teammates more.
• Better shot selection - He takes a lot of well guarded shots. For some reason they are not getting him a lot of open looks this year, but he'll shoot anyway. Usually when setting picks, he rolls way more than he pops. Can't say that's a bad thing because he can convert in traffic, but sometimes the smart choice would be to go for the open midrange shot. And tell your team mates come to the ball more if you got a man on you.

As far as his defense is concerned, the best Kevin Love can be is a Chuck Hayes type defender. They both share strength and a low stance. Of course he'll never have the speed Hayes has, but his quickness has improved some since he lost weight, and guys are finding a harder time to get around him in the post. But he has and still will struggle against guys that can shoot over the top (dirk, millsap, gasol).

Love is more of a throw back power forward. He’s a guy who’s not refined offensively but he’s more of the Charles Oakley mindset of mixing it up in the paint. Love can improve defensively even though he has limited lateral quickness. Charles Oakley was never fast or quick but was a solid defensive post player. Love can be similar. I agree that Love cannot be the best player on a championship team. He can definitely be a piece and make a huge impact on that type of team but I just couldn’t see him being “The Man”.

For him to be the man, he needs to be able to hit more of those contested jumpers that I mentioned above. He has no issue with shooting them, but making them....he's shown streaks of it throughout his career (he started out on fire this season), but it's not consistent thus not making him a goto guy in this point. He has the potential, but he'd have to work on his jumper like dirk, durant, or steph curry does, and I think it's safe to say that won't happen in the next 1-2 years.

[ZB9]

Re: Most complete PF today

If by Today you mean Still currently playing in the NBA, I would have to go with Tim Duncan. He no longer puts up the stats that he used to but in terms of being the most complete he is one of the best the game has ever seen. He is called the big fundamental for a reason

Tim Duncan is a center and has been for a while now imo. Idk why he insists on being listed as a power forward.

[J_Posse]

Tim Duncan is a center and has been for a while now imo. Idk why he insists on being listed as a power forward.

It's his preference and he's earned that right. He's played both the PF/C throughout his career, but has been primarily a center since Oberto and Elson were on the team ('07-'08 season).

LaMarcus Aldridge is probably the best overall PF, but no one is elite in every facet of the game. Love puts up the most impressive numbers, while I believe Griffin has the most upside. I'm hopeful this new crop can be just as good to watch as Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Wallace, Brand, O'Neal and Gasol in their prime.

from Spurs Nation

[AlexBrady]

Re: Most complete PF today

Apparently, a line is being drawn when it comes to the term “big man”. Big men is now the new terminology for center. As you stated, power forwards are now oversized wing men. As we all know, the center position has gone to the waste. Dwight Howard is the best center in the league right now with Bynum being second. You took those two guys and threw them in the 90’s where the field was Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and young Shaq and those guys wouldn’t even sniff the all-star game.

Love is more of a throw back power forward. He’s a guy who’s not refined offensively but he’s more of the Charles Oakley mindset of mixing it up in the paint. Love can improve defensively even though he has limited lateral quickness. Charles Oakley was never fast or quick but was a solid defensive post player. Love can be similar. I agree that Love cannot be the best player on a championship team. He can definitely be a piece and make a huge impact on that type of team but I just couldn’t see him being “The Man”.

I don’t think the T-wolves will try to build around Kevin Love. It’s obvious they know what they have in him and it’s definitely not a top 5 player. However, I won’t admonish the T-Wolves for trying to build around Garnett. Garnett was a legit superstar and twice the player Kevin love is. However, the team they built around Garnett just didn’t seem to be the recipe for a championship team. Cassell was ok for the short term. Sprewell was a talented head case. They had Trenton Hassell, a bench player at best, starting at the two guard for them. They signed one of the biggest bust of all time in Michael Olowokandi to start at center. It just didn’t seem right. And despite the fact that they made it to the Western Conference Finals in 2004, they were dispatched by the Lakers who were disjointed chemistry wise during that time as well.

Agreed. It takes alot of time to learn the advanced footwork and techniques to play in the post, not to mention the beating you have to take down there. Its not for the faint of heart.
Thats a solid comparison, Oakley was even better at boxing out and played more aggressive defense- challenging entry passes, controlling a guys hip, using upper/lower body to push man away from hoop. Every Championship club needs outstanding role players.

I've never been a Garnett fan. At 6'11" 225 lbs he didn't have the stuff to challenge the true heavyweights. Everyone made too many excuses for him. Sprewell, Sczcerbiak, and Cassell were hailed as All Stars. A truly great player can lift his supporting cast above and beyond.

Kevin Love is in the conversation for best PF is because of 3 things basically.

• Rebounding - The man goes after the rebounds like a dog goes after a bone after you throw it. Every time. Only a handful of guys in the league have the same motor on the boards.
• Hustle - Love is probably the best at turning hustle into points. 30% of his points come from the free throw line (which is a higher % than lebron). Plus the fact he hits his free throws at a high rate - we all know post players are notoriously bad free throw shooters.
• Three Point Shooting - Like it or not, that extra point makes a difference, even with his less than stellar spot up shooting, it still makes his point per possession competitive with the top tier PF's.

Things he needs to improve on

• Passing - Kevin love this year has many times become a black hole, and while I can't fault him since there really isn't other decent offensive options, he's gone a little too far. And when he does pass out of a double team, it's often turned over. The thing I find funny the most is when a guard (Ridnour/Rubio) passes him the ball in the post, then that guard cuts to the basket around him, he always fakes like he's handing the ball off, but I've never actually seen him hand off the ball. lol. Anyway, for him to be considered a MVP, he needs to trust his teammates more.
• Better shot selection - He takes a lot of well guarded shots. For some reason they are not getting him a lot of open looks this year, but he'll shoot anyway. Usually when setting picks, he rolls way more than he pops. Can't say that's a bad thing because he can convert in traffic, but sometimes the smart choice would be to go for the open midrange shot. And tell your team mates come to the ball more if you got a man on you.

As far as his defense is concerned, the best Kevin Love can be is a Chuck Hayes type defender. They both share strength and a low stance. Of course he'll never have the speed Hayes has, but his quickness has improved some since he lost weight, and guys are finding a harder time to get around him in the post. But he has and still will struggle against guys that can shoot over the top (dirk, millsap, gasol).

Love will always be succeptible to quick changes of direction because he has slow feet but he could play stationary defense more pro-actively and force his man away from the basket. His screen/roll defense and baseline rotations will always be a step slow. Love won't rise to Chuck Hayes' level though since Hayes saves his energy to 'D' up and he totally digs what he does. That was a great breakdown of Love's game.

[ZB9]

Re: Most complete PF today

How can a player be the best PF when they cant shoot a lick? I dont understand that. Shooting is somewhat of an important detail in basketball

truth be told, Blake Griffin is probably not even in the top 5 of PFs right now...he does have great upside though

[ZB9]

Re: Most complete PF today

It's his preference and he's earned that right. He's played both the PF/C throughout his career, but has been primarily a center since Oberto and Elson were on the team ('07-'08 season).

LaMarcus Aldridge is probably the best overall PF, but no one is elite in every facet of the game. Love puts up the most impressive numbers, while I believe Griffin has the most upside. I'm hopeful this new crop can be just as good to watch as Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Wallace, Brand, O'Neal and Gasol in their prime.

from Spurs Nation

whatever his preference is, Duncan hasnt played power forward for quite a while

he never would have been able to list himself as a power forward if he wouldnt have joined a team with David Robinson..SA obviously played two centers

but anyway, positions dont really matter in SA's system..they probably list Duncan at PF mainly for that reason

[flyJODO]

Re: Most complete PF today

Tim Duncan is a power forward. Especially if you watched him back then. He could face-up or play with his back to the basket, shoot running hooks, post fadeaways, etc... Although I do agree that the past 3-4 years he's played center, when he retires, he should be regarded as a PF. I mean he's played PF 10,11 years (which were his best) and C only about 3,4 years.

[puttincomputers]

Re: Most complete PF today

Who is the best PF right now?

Here is my top 5.
Aldridge
Love
Millsap
Gasol
Ibaka

On the edge
Dirk
Blake Griffin

Rising to the top
Cousins
Javale McGee
Biyombo (look at his Bpg compared with his minutes!)

Quickly falling
Garnett

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Most complete PF today

Who is the best PF right now?

Here is my top 5.
Aldridge
Love
Millsap
Gasol
Ibaka

On the edge
Dirk
Blake Griffin

Rising to the top
Cousins
Javale McGee
Biyombo (look at his Bpg compared with his minutes!)

Quickly falling
Garnett

Serge Ibaka is a better power forward than Dirk now?

What the hell....

[1Rose]

Re: Most complete PF today

Is Ibaka even really a PF?

I see his game more as a C than anything.

Steel, I thought you would have been more outraged about him putting Gasol ahead of Dirk lol

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Most complete PF today

Is Ibaka even really a PF?

I see his game more as a C than anything.

Steel, I thought you would have been more outraged about him putting Gasol ahead of Dirk lol

At least Gasol is a complete power forward, he can do it all, score, rebound, play defense and Paul Millsap is young but I can see a lot of positives in that, I was upset about those too but SERGE IBAKA? All the dude knows how to do is dunk and block shots and he comes in here trying to say he's better than the reigning NBA Finals MVP.

lol and I just realized he has Bismack Biyombo and Javale McGee on his list. Must be trolling.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Most complete PF today

Always have to take comments with a grain of salt when you see this on the side of their profile