Jeremy Lin

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I don't think court vision is one of Lin's biggest strengths.

I don't think turnovers have to do with his court vision either.

His strengths I feel are consistentLINly making the right decision off the pick and roll or in transition. He consistentLINly finds the open man, he has exceptional awareness overall, a good court sense.

I think the high turnover rate has to do with his ball security and that he isn't strong with holding onto the ball yet. The strength of defenders will take getting accustomed to.

I think he has decent court vision, maybe above average.

When people call him a scoring guard, I think that's not accurate... his mentality is to create for others. He strikes me as a well-balanced guard who likes to do both, but looks to create first then score.

[Colts18]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I just don't understand why people feel the need to compare people so quickly. The man hasn't played 1000 minutes and we are already comparing him to Nash? Why? Because of Amare and D'Antoni being in the picture? Let him be Lin, don't mention Nash's name with his because you are setting this dude up for failure. I know that nobody is saying he will be Nash but I don't see the point of the comparisons. Just say what you see in Lin and move on.

I hope when he falls he doesn't FALL. Nice ride while it lasted, assuming it is over. I am not saying it is but none of us expected/expects this to last forever.

[Colts18]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I think the high turnover rate has to do with his ball security and that he isn't strong with holding onto the ball yet. The strength of defenders will take getting accustomed to.

And not to mention the dude might be tired. He is playing more now that ever before at a high level.

Also he might still be in awe. Face it, he was a 12th man for the last 24 months. A D-Leaguer as well. Now he is in NY, starting against World Class PG's. Not against Curtis Stinson and Donald Sloan but the NBA's Finest. He might be very nervous.

[TMagic]

And exactly how many games did you watch of him?

If you're using last night as a barometer...then you don't realize how wrong you are.

I'm not on the hype train and never was...but you cannot have watched much games and come to that assessment that he's a bad passer or bad decision maker.

Apparently someone who has had 14 assists in a game is now a bad passer.

Is Kobe a subpar scorer because he only put up 15 on 4 field goals made against the Mavs?

To be honest I've watched 4 of his games.

And in each of those 4 games I've seen the same thing. Just because hes had some high assist numbers doesnt mean hes a great passer or decision maker.

You can't simply applaud one variable and choose to ignore others. To play off your example...Are you going to praise Kobe for scoring 60 points while shooting only 35% in a loss?

Lin is a turnover machine. Which comes from poor decisions with the ball. For every 3 assists he gives you, he gives you 2 turnovers. You cant just turn a blind eye to that.

And like I mentioned earlier, theres not any stat that keeps track of missed passes. In games I've watched, I've seen quite a few of those.

Dont get me wrong. The kid has played great. But his decision making, passing, and vision still need a lot of work.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jeremy Lin

He also has the most turnovers in the stretch of games he has played than any other player in the histroy of the NBA since the NBA started keeping track of turnovers. That's not good court vision or passing. That's mediocre.

Do his Turnovers come from throwing the ball directly to the other team or getting bottled up in the lane? If you watched the majority of his games...you'd know the answer.

It's easy to go to NBA.com and pull up stats and say he had 'x' amount of turnovers so he has poor court vision.

If you watched his games, you know the majority of Lin's TOs come from his lack of athleticism...not his court vision or passing ability.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jeremy Lin

To be honest I've watched 4 of his games.

And in each of those 4 games I've seen the same thing. Just because hes had some high assist numbers doesnt mean hes a great passer or decision maker.

You can't simply applaud one variable and choose to ignore others. To play off your example...Are you going to praise Kobe for scoring 60 points while shooting only 35% in a loss?

Lin is a turnover machine. Which comes from poor decisions with the ball. For every 3 assists he gives you, he gives you 2 turnovers. You cant just turn a blind eye to that.

And like I mentioned earlier, theres not any stat that keeps track of missed passes. In games I've watched, I've seen quite a few of those.

Dont get me wrong. The kid has played great. But his decision making, passing, and vision still need a lot of work.

I agree with the bolded.

But to equate a Turnover number to poor court vision is bogus.

I'm sure Toney Douglas turns the ball over less than Lin. But can TD find the open man? Can he penetrate, draw multiple defenders and kick? Can he find a cutter for an alley oop?

I've seen Lin make bad decisions. Mainly getting into the lane, stopping and getting stripped or forcing a pass while getting smothered. That's not court vision man.

[TMagic]

I don't think court vision is one of Lin's biggest strengths.

I don't think turnovers have to do with his court vision either.

I think the high turnover rate has to do with his ball security and that he isn't strong with holding onto the ball yet. The strength of defenders will take getting accustomed to. .

No doubt he has to get stronger.

But most of his turnovers, that I'VE seen, have come from just poor decisions.

He throws cross court passes. Loses the ball when he's pressured. Throws passes late, which gives the defender a chance to read a play and anticipate his pass. Jumps to make other passes which your taught in little leagues not to do. One handed over head passes. He throws passes like the defense is just going to sit there and watch. Some passes are so bad you would think he hit the wrong button (ok...done with the 2k references. Lol).

Just compare his pick and roll game to Nash with Amare. In one or two dribbles, Nash is able to hit Amare off the pick. Lin has the tendency to over dribble after the pick is set, and he get ways too deep into the lane where he's trying to make a pass with 3 defenders surrounding him.

His turnovers have more to do with his decision making and bad passes than anything else.

[Altimus]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Do his Turnovers come from throwing the ball directly to the other team or getting bottled up in the lane? If you watched the majority of his games...you'd know the answer.

It's easy to go to NBA.com and pull up stats and say he had 'x' amount of turnovers so he has poor court vision.

If you watched his games, you know the majority of Lin's TOs come from his lack of athleticism...not his court vision or passing ability.

Eh, I see a solid amount of bad passes. At times he puts his teammates into bad positions which ends up in a turnover.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Eh, I see a solid amount of bad passes. At times he puts his teammates into bad positions which ends up in a turnover.

And more times than not...he puts his teammates into very easy scoring positions as evidenced by his assist numbers, no?

[Altimus]

Re: Jeremy Lin

And more times than not...he puts his teammates into very easy scoring positions as evidenced by his assist numbers, no?

Didn't say he didn't, however, Westbrook gets killed on here and the media for his turnovers while Lin's turnovers get somewhat overlooked. He's still learning the PG position on the NBA level but... it is what it is.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Jeremy Lin

If you're the Knicks (fair or not) your looking at being expected to make a title run. So judging how effective your players are will be tinted by who you play. When you really get down to it its all about MIA, CHI, and PHI in the East. The question is does Lin have the ability to create successfully against that level of defense in high pressure situations. Those teams have the personel to make life really tough for him. Can he still get it done in the face of that? Thats really all that matters.

[wwharton]

Re: Jeremy Lin

And more times than not...he puts his teammates into very easy scoring positions as evidenced by his assist numbers, no?

No, and you're really trying to hard to defend him. Honestly his scoring numbers have been more surprising/impressive than his assists. Having a deadly 3 point shooter can get you cheap assists. Running a PnR offense with two high flyers can also get you cheap assists. Most importantly, WANTING to pass the ball more than score in a system built for that can get you great assists numbers too if you're allowed to stay on the floor long enough... a luxury not many guards are afforded when they're averaging 6 turnovers a game.

He is a pass first PG, so there's a bit of smoke and mirrors with his assist numbers... and most people look at assist/turnover ratio anyway (his isn't all that great). His scoring numbers and FG% have been extremely impressive though, and especially when you consider the games where he was the main option. You tried to compare him to Douglas earlier but Douglas just isn't the right type of player to run the system... they don't really compare. Don't know who of the two has the better court vision, but I do know Lin's mentality has him looking for the open man more which is something different.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Didn't say he didn't, however, Westbrook gets killed on here and the media for his turnovers while Lin's turnovers get somewhat overlooked. He's still learning the PG position on the NBA level but... it is what it is.

In what world and by whom?

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jeremy Lin

No, and you're really trying to hard to defend him. Honestly his scoring numbers have been more surprising/impressive than his assists. Having a deadly 3 point shooter can get you cheap assists. Running a PnR offense with two high flyers can also get you cheap assists. Most importantly, WANTING to pass the ball more than score in a system built for that can get you great assists numbers too if you're allowed to stay on the floor long enough... a luxury not many guards are afforded when they're averaging 6 turnovers a game.

He is a pass first PG, so there's a bit of smoke and mirrors with his assist numbers... and most people look at assist/turnover ratio anyway (his isn't all that great). His scoring numbers and FG% have been extremely impressive though, and especially when you consider the games where he was the main option. You tried to compare him to Douglas earlier but Douglas just isn't the right type of player to run the system... they don't really compare. Don't know who of the two has the better court vision, but I do know Lin's mentality has him looking for the open man more which is something different.

Cheap assists?

So throwing to Steve Novak = cheap assist

Throwing to Jared Jeffries = what???

That's not fair man. But this is what he's up against. Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

Gotcha..

[bigfnjoe96]

People need to stay away from the 2k forum. Really. No Knick Fan who post in this section has compared him to Nash.

If anything the media has driven that type of comparison. The kid has a lot to learn about being a good PG in this league & yesterday showed clear as day

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