The "Next Jordan"

[1Rose]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

One thing people never bring up, I've noticed is Hakeem already handled Shaq. Shaq came into the league in 92 and he crossed Dream's path a few times in his time in the league including in the NBA Finals. A knock that I've seen people lay on Jordan is him being dominant at a time where the league was watered down and he didn't win until Bird and Magic were out the door. Well Shaq didn't really didn't become the dominant force we know until the true bigmen of the game were gone. When Shaq was winning Chips, Robinson and Mutombo were really the only legit big men in the game. I'm trying to think of the other centers in the league that could truly challenge him at the time and those are the only two I can think of. Whatever Shaq would've been able to dish out against those stars, he'd be giving right back up against Dream on the other end.

If people say that, they need to do more research.

Jordan, statistically had his best years when Magic and Bird were in their prime, and his numbers were superior, on top of him being much younger. The teams Magic and Bird had at that time however were unreal.

Those teams that Jordan were on when the Celts and Lakers were battling it out, were carried by Jordan to the playoffs, like severely lol

[st0rmb11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

If people say that, they need to do more research.

Jordan, statistically had his best years when Magic and Bird were in their prime, and his numbers were superior, on top of him being much younger. The teams Magic and Bird had at that time however were unreal.

Those teams that Jordan were on when the Celts and Lakers were battling it out, were carried by Jordan to the playoffs, like severely lol

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that. I've never actually heard someone use that against Jordan. I mean, ****, he beat Magic in the 1991 Finals, and outplayed him in every aspect of the game. And it's not like it was an old Magic. He was coming off of an MVP in 1990, and was only 31 years old.

[PhantomPain]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

I haven't seen much of young Davis. Can he rebound in traffic? Can he set and hold screens? Is he an accurate and snappy ball reverser? Boxing out, show and recoveries, getting low and wide defending the post? Russell was aces in all those categories.

I do know that the kid is thin, real thin. So you wonder how he will fare against the hatchet men in the NBA. Does he have a tensil kind of strength? That may be the difference between a Marcus Camby or a Russell type career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJaFNsa-Bqs

Davis does a lot of the intangibles but he is not only barely removed from high school, he is pretty thin too. Seems to have a frame to gain more weight though and from all accounts, is stronger than you would think. With that said, he will still get pushed around until he gains weight/muscle.

Really Davis is kind of a combo of Durant and Camby. Probably going to be better than Camby all around and better than Durant defensively, but doubtful he will ever lead the league in scoring. Only mentioned Russell because of his shot blocking ability and comparisons that announcers use. Otherwise, no, he isn't the next Bill Russell.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that. I've never actually heard someone use that against Jordan. I mean, ****, he beat Magic in the 1991 Finals, and outplayed him in every aspect of the game. And it's not like it was an old Magic. He was coming off of an MVP in 1990, and was only 31 years old.

Oh it was definitely said about him. I remember that very point was addressed during an NBC telecast of the Finals. I believe it was halftime and it was addressed.

[lilbiggio]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

Forget the next Jordan...Who is going to be the next Pippen? I can see Jordan being replicated but I can't see someone being the team and conference's best defender, and equally capable of scoring 20 to 30 from inside or from outside. Nobody in the league is on that kind of grind. We got a lot of great offensive players, a lot of defensive specialists but who could be first team on both sides of the rock?

[st0rmb11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

Forget the next Jordan...Who is going to be the next Pippen? I can see Jordan being replicated but I can't see someone being the team and conference's best defender, and equally capable of scoring 20 to 30 from inside or from outside. Nobody in the league is on that kind of grind. We got a lot of great offensive players, a lot of defensive specialists but who could be first team on both sides of the rock?

I haven't thumbed through the book in a while, but doesn't Bill Simmons make this same case in his book? and it's a great case/point, at that.

I think we've seen evolutions of Pippen, already. McGrady in his prime was of that mold - great ball handling forward, great passer, could score inside and out, but he wasn't near the defender, and he wasn't the second banana on his team. Had he stayed in Toronto with Carter? who knows. You could argue that he would have assumed that same role, but I don't know if his game would have progressed had he not been able to go off to Orlando. In his last year in Toronto, he put up 15 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, and 2 blocks at 20 years old, so he could have been well on his way to being a great second banana.

LeBron is a much evolved Pippen. Great scorer, inside and out. Great passer. Great ball handler. Great rebounder. Great defender. If Wade were as good as Michael Jordan, LeBron would assume that role perfectly on Miami. The problem? LeBron is better than Wade, so he isn't "second banana", no matter how many people try to say he is.

Grant Hill was well on his way to being an evolution of Pippen, and could have very well ended up being a second banana to McGrady. Great rebounder, great passer, great scorer, inside and out, could attack the basket, solid defender.

Shawn Marion was another one of those, in his prime. He was, pretty much, second banana to Amare. He wasn't the ball handler that Pippen (or the others I've mentioned) were, but he could score in multiple ways, he grabbed rebounds (averaging double digits a couple of times), he was a very solid perimeter and interior defender, he was a decent passer.

I think we'll see several guys with a very similar skillset, but the problem - any kid coming up who is that good, is going to be thrust into that superstar level in AAU, high school, college, and by the time he gets to the pros, even if he is the second best player on his team, he won't settle for that. Pippen willingly accepted, and wanted, that role. He had no issue with being second banana to MJ. Anyone who is that good today, will not go for that.

The best Pippen "impersonation" I can think of, honestly, is Andre Iguodala. He can put up 20+ a night if he has to, from inside, outside, or driving. He can pass as well as any wing player in the league. He can rebound at a good rate. He's a tremendous defensive player. Just go back and look at his career stats. His problem? He's had to be the best player on his team for years, and he seems to have that Pippen mentality, where he prefers to be 2nd. His stats aren't as impressive this year, but his team is good, all around, so he doesn't have to be 2nd banana; he can get away with being 1st guy some nights, 4th guy other nights..put him in a situation where he is the 2nd best player, gets the same number of shots that a 2nd banana would get, and I bet he would put up very similar-to-Pippen numbers. Just look at what he did from 2007-2011. He was a reluctant first option, and put up 17.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 45% shooting, 1.8 steals per game..pretty "Pippen-ish numbers".

[dramachild11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

storm & king its funny you guys say that about the 91 finals cause a friend of mine an i were talking about that and he reminded me about the fact that after game 1 (which the lakers won) the lakers had a starter get hurt in every game for the rest of that series, his point being that magic could talk ish an say jordan never beat'em at full strength... an lilbiggio i really think the next pippen arrived in the form of lebron when he was on the cavs (the distinction is important i think cause his role is only different in miami).. with the cavs he brought the ball up, got others involved an had to score 20+, guarded the other teams best perimeter player, rebounded, and another similarity was that when the 2nd team was out on the floor so was he

[wwharton]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

I don't know if I'd say Scottie had no problem being in that role. He just didn't have a choice. He tried to prove he was more than that when he was going after his contract and Jordan took THAT as a challenge too and still made sure he scored more than Pippen whenever possible. I think Pippen very much wanted to be 1st banana, even though I don't think he should've been.

I think Lebron is the best example of the "next" Pippen (even though the "evolution" of Pippen is a much more accurate statement).

[st0rmb11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

storm & king its funny you guys say that about the 91 finals cause a friend of mine an i were talking about that and he reminded me about the fact that after game 1 (which the lakers won) the lakers had a starter get hurt in every game for the rest of that series, his point being that magic could talk ish an say jordan never beat'em at full strength... an lilbiggio i really think the next pippen arrived in the form of lebron when he was on the cavs (the distinction is important i think cause his role is only different in miami).. with the cavs he brought the ball up, got others involved an had to score 20+, guarded the other teams best perimeter player, rebounded, and another similarity was that when the 2nd team was out on the floor so was he

I'm sorry, what?

Worthy & Scott missed game 5, but both played significant minutes in the other 4 games in the series. (Worthy averaged over 40 minutes per game in the first 4 games, Scott averaged well over 30, and that was brought down because of foul trouble in games 2 and 4)

Perkins, Magic, & Divac never missed a game, and all averaged well over 30 minutes per game, Magic averaging over 40.

So, that argument has no legs. The problem was, the Lakers played an 8 man rotation throughout the series. They just weren't a deep enough or good enough team; the only game they won came down to a missed buzzer beater by Jordan.

[dramachild11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

no no he wasnt saying they missed games just that they werent healthy, i didnt even remember that myself and i didnt agree with him anyway but sorry i wasnt specific enough...

[st0rmb11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

no no he wasnt saying they missed games just that they werent healthy, i didnt even remember that myself and i didnt agree with him anyway but sorry i wasnt specific enough...

ah, my bad. I do think Worthy was having issues with something then, but I don't remember what the issue was. It didn't seem to hurt his productivity, though.

[aloncho11]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

This. I hate when people bring out that opinion as if everything that happens NOW is just automatically better than back then. I refuse to believe that the entire Washington Wizards and Charlotte Bobcats teams can be in the NBA, but you're telling me that a Drazen Petrovic or Worthy or someone couldn't be in the league right now with the likes of the Nick Youngs, Jordan Crawfords and JJ Hicksons of the world.

^Man you read my mind about the Wizards and the Bobcats. Drazen Petrovic was one of the NBA's best shooters in history IMO.

[PhantomPain]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

Forget the next Jordan...Who is going to be the next Pippen? I can see Jordan being replicated but I can't see someone being the team and conference's best defender, and equally capable of scoring 20 to 30 from inside or from outside. Nobody in the league is on that kind of grind. We got a lot of great offensive players, a lot of defensive specialists but who could be first team on both sides of the rock?

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist has been compared to a young Pippen on many occasions for his defensive abilities. He also has moves to go down in the post and can drive. He needs major work on his jump shot though. Other than that, look for MKG to be one of the best defensive players in the league after he gets a little seasoned in the league.

[24]

Re: The "Next Jordan"

Wanted to throw in my two cents here on the subject. As for past players I truly believe that If he ever had a work ethic Vince Carter could have been the next Jordan. Carter put up most of his stats on talent alone and always seemed very lazy to me. If He had the mentality of a guy like Kobe, Vince would have easily been able to reach his full potential and dominate the game. As for the guys that are in college I'm very interested to see how Harrison Barnes develops. If he puts on some more muscle and refines his game a bit more I think we will really see something special

[wwharton]

The thing is the work ethic, competitiveness, killer instinct, bball iq and all other mental aspects were also 2nd to none when it came to Jordan. There's been a lot of wasted talent. Saying "if only" Carter or Lebron or whoever had that part of their game is the same as saying if only if Nash or Dirk were more athletic... or Rodman was more offensively talented.

It's the combination of skills that make the man special.