More Effective Player at age 38....

[TheMatrix31]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

This thread makes me want to put 17 bullets in my brain.

[24]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Lets not forget that Jordan at age 39 played better defense than Steve Nash did in his prime. Steve Nash throughout his career was all offense no defense, Jordan played both ways of the game with a good amount of efficiency and the age of 39 while Nash is considered a defensive liability and has been throughout his career. Nash has never finished in the top 50 in steals, never cracked the top 100 in defensive win shares nor placed in the top 350 of defensive rating. May I remind you that Jordan was also playing injured for the majority of his first season with the wizards and still managed to make a team of absolute scrubs win 28 more games than their previous season.

[jd@os]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

^ Effective.

[23]

Smh at out of the behind comparisons man

This is crazy talk

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[King_B_Mack]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Seriously though, how is it even fair to compare a dude that's been playing and training non-stop for about 15 years or so straight to a guy that was retired from the game for four years?

[SteelersFreak]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Let's not sit around and act like MJ went from eating Cheetos on the couch to the next day playing 40 minutes for the Wiz.

[nowitsourtime]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Without Nash the Suns would be nothing. Their whole team is based on getting open looks on transition and pick and rolls set up by Nash. He is led the league in assists at age 37 and is making a strong bid at age 38.

I'm with matrix. To see people comparing Nash to a game manager is just absurd

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

I'm not going to get into an argument about who was more effective at that age, but I will say that Mike's effectiveness from those days are greatly under appreciated.

Yes, he shot an Iverson-esque 41% that year, but 23-5-5 with 1 and a half steals is doing work. Also with the exception of a young Rip Hamilton, I would say that Jordan's squad was marginal at best.

Jordan is being evaluated in comparison to how far he fell off from 1998, not from an analysis of his play in just that season.

Numbers can lie, all I'll say about your post is Nash is the the offense for the Suns, with out Nash the Suns win, what 15 games top? And when MJ played for the Wiz, the East was pretty sorry if my memory is correct. Im not dogging MJ in any way, I just was having this discussion with a friend and he said "Jordan and its not even close", after that I lost all respect for him when it comes to actual knowledge and and not legend....I gotta admit I thought most people would be more like my friend all up on MJ (BTW I think MJ is the GOAT when it comes to SG's, thought I should make that clear)

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

I...don't even...know how to...put it....more simply...

Link provided earlier by the Matrix shows Jordan at 38 and Nash at 37:

Jordan pts: 22.9
Nash pts: 12.7

Jordan asst: 5.2
Nash asst: 10.9

Jordan rebs: 5.7
Nash rebs: 3.0

Jordan stls: 1.4
Nash stls: 0.7

If these stats are wrong, don't blame me--blame the site. The question at hand is who is more effective at age 38. Both are effective, but Jordan was more effective just in my opinion (not fact).

I'm not sure what you didn't understand. Some people who played point guard could play at an effective rate at age 40--Magic Johnson was one--heck, Mark Jackson was one. The vital thing about playing the 1 is that you pass the ball effectively and you limit your turnovers; Nash does a phenomenal job doing that. But to do what Jordan did at 38, 39, 40--is more effective. He had numerous off nights, but the overall body of work was more effective at an older age.

I hope that's clear enough.

Hmmm you leave out shot attempts, per game, cause I promise you Jordan touched the ball as much as Nash does, Nash could score more, he's shown he can score, he's had multple 40+ points in the playoffs, but he is the offense, his decision making is unbelievable and he's probably still one of the top 5 shooters, all I know is that in Washington, MJ was their scorer, in PHX Nash is there offense, does that make sense?

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Seriously though, how is it even fair to compare a dude that's been playing and training non-stop for about 15 years or so straight to a guy that was retired from the game for four years?

LOL ok, anyone who's a baller, man they ball till they can't anymore, that said Jordan was THE baller, even though he took some time off do you really think he stopped balling? LOL Jordan in his late 30's would still have been in better shape than 98% of the world...if anything that time off helped him, IMO.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Let's not sit around and act like MJ went from eating Cheetos on the couch to the next day playing 40 minutes for the Wiz.

Not acting like he was sitting around eating Cheetos, but let's not even try to pretend that you can just BE in NBA game shape and ready to play after four years like it ain't a thing.

LOL ok, anyone who's a baller, man they ball till they can't anymore, that said Jordan was THE baller, even though he took some time off do you really think he stopped balling? LOL Jordan in his late 30's would still have been in better shape than 98% of the world...if anything that time off helped him, IMO.

And so are dudes that sit around not doing **** with themselves during a four month lockout, how does that tend to work out for them? There's one thing being in shape, it's another being in NBA game shape.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Points contributed per 100 possessions:
Nash: 116
Jordan: 99

Points allowed per 100 possessions:
Nash: 110
Jordan: 105

Points contributed - points allowed:
Nash: +6
Jordan: -6

Win Shares:
Nash: 5.8 (with Nash being in a far stronger conference)
Jordan: 3.3

PER:
Nash: 20.9
Jordan: 20.8

TS%:
Nash: 62.8%
Jordan: 46.8%

eFG%:
Nash: 58.6%
Jordan: 42%

Phoneix Suns WITH Nash: 110 points per 100 possessions and 105 points allowed
WITHOUT Nash: 100 points per 100 possessions and 110.5 points allowed.

Not only does the offense score 10 less points when Nash isn't there, but their defense gives up more points as well.

Today, Nash is still probably the best offensive PG in the entire league. His numbers aren't far off from his 2 MVP seasons, and he's doing it with far less talent around him (compared to his MVP seasons, not to Jordan's Wizards). Still arguably the best passer in the NBA. Still arguably the best shooter in the NBA.

This thread never should have made it past 1 page in my opinion.

[RedSceptile]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Points contributed per 100 possessions:
Nash: 116
Jordan: 99

Points allowed per 100 possessions:
Nash: 110
Jordan: 105

Points contributed - points allowed:
Nash: +6
Jordan: -6

Win Shares:
Nash: 5.8 (with Nash being in a far stronger conference)
Jordan: 3.3

PER:
Nash: 20.9
Jordan: 20.8

TS%:
Nash: 62.8%
Jordan: 46.8%

eFG%:
Nash: 58.6%
Jordan: 42%

Phoneix Suns WITH Nash: 110 points per 100 possessions and 105 points allowed
WITHOUT Nash: 100 points per 100 possessions and 110.5 points allowed.

Not only does the offense score 10 less points when Nash isn't there, but their defense gives up more points as well.

Today, Nash is still probably the best offensive PG in the entire league. His numbers aren't far off from his 2 MVP seasons, and he's doing it with far less talent around him (compared to his MVP seasons, not to Jordan's Wizards). Still arguably the best passer in the NBA. Still arguably the best shooter in the NBA.

This thread never should have made it past 1 page in my opinion.

Amazing assessment no lie.

[wwharton]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

I think the point that was being made is that it's easier to play close to the same level into your late 30's as a PG than a SG/SF. No idea why guys are getting up in arms by using this logic to describe Nash. The example given was pretty clear in showing how it's true for players of any level. It doesn't say a thing about how good of a point guard Nash is (he's one of the best ever), it only speaks on how much easier it is for him to play at HIS high level than it would be for Jordan to play at his.

If we want to talk about marginalizing a player then point the finger at Gortat. You can't just throw a name out there like that... he's playing at an all star level this year. That Wizards team was hot garbage and won 19 games the year before. I don't think there is a comparison to a player that can come back after 4 years off and go to a terrible team like that and have them in the hunt for .500 when being asked to be the main scorer. I don't cry a river for Jordan bc he should've stayed retired. But I also won't act like his role (which is much more physical in nature) is on the same level for a 38 year old as that of an elite PG.

[The 24th Letter]

So I'm just wondering....if its "that easy" to keep up that kind of play at PG...may I ask who has actually done it?

Serious question.